Quoted from juanlargo:Last thing I'll say in this thread before I drain it and go on with my life...
I guarantee there are people here who feel the same way I do. You would probably be surprised at how many of them you know. You'd probably consider some of them your friends. Some of them might be players for whom you have the utmost respect.
I'm sure some people here have wives/girlfriends/daughters/female friends that would tell you they love this sort of thing. Fine, ok. But don't get it twisted — that is not a barometer for widespread tolerance. Publicly expressing support in this environment is a safe position to take because it always results in acceptance. Critical positions are unsafe, and this thread is unfortunately a predictable, basic illustration of that.
If nobody in your life is telling you that this stuff is destructive and exclusionary, it's not because that's invalid. It's not because you're the reasonable one and they need to lighten up. It's more likely because they know how it would be received. It's because in communities where casual sexism is encouraged, this point of view is shouted down immediately, people are told to deal with it, and the critical voices are dismissed and outcast. That's why it seems like people are trolling when they bring this up "out of nowhere". That's why you don't hear it more. It's not because of them — it's because of you.
Hear hear. It's unfortunate that Pinside is the internets 'window' into the hobby, yet threads and posts such as the ones in here are pretty common. It's likely less a reflection on Pinside (although the biggest video game forums moderate this kind of material very well (re; NeoGAF)), and more that as a community, pinball has a long way to go on the maturity front.
There are lots of new people joining the hobby lately. Children, women, younger guys and then people like me who was a huge video gamer now turned pinball player. Video gaming, while better with this topic, is struggling with these very concepts right now with the whole Gamer Gate thing. But in comparison with pinball, video gaming is light years ahead.
I think it's mainly the old pinball guard who are feeling very defensive about their hobby and the passion they have for it. They don't want to see things change. Maybe it won't and they will drag the hobby kicking and screaming back into the shadows, but I get the feeling (and I hope) that pinball continues to grow and stuff like this will decrease over time.
I know personally that I don't recommend any friends, especially female friends or youngsters, to visit here simply because I think it's embarrassing and a bad reflection on us all. It's a shame, because pinball is awesome.
Charlotte, NC
