I can't believe it's going to be seven pages into this thread before someone says this.

Hi. I'm a new player, and here's my take—this subject sucks, and so does anyone who thinks it's worthwhile.

Here's a weird thing—I wonder why something like 98% of the participants in every tournament, league, and casual meetup I attend are all dudes. Can't believe more women aren't into it—especially when we notice immediately and rank them by how hot they are after they display any level of interest whatsoever?

Boo. This conversation sucks. Be better.

I know that I could go away, or drain the thread.

Neither of those things would surface my counter point, which is worthy of attention: an inclusive community wouldn't stand for the objectification of any of its members. That's something that I care about, so I'll be the one to say it—this discussion is destructive and terrible.

Right.

Anyway, when I read through threads like these:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinside-girls-club/
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/negativity-got-you-down-pinball-girl-party

I love seeing how badass, creative, and generally stoked everyone is.

I get bummed when the women who start those threads feel like they have to include stuff like this in order to have an acceptable discussion:

"Men- I know you are going to lurk around here anyway, but please be nice and respectful. We don't want to run off any actual females that love pinball. Chick pic posts, rude comments, etc will be deleted."

So many of these posters qualify their messages by saying that they are one of only a few women in a league or group, or that connecting with other women in pinball resulted in loads of new friends and a really profound new experience. That is community, and that is everything that is great about exploring a shared interest with other people.

Getting all defensive about your right to make dick jokes and post misogynistic garbage that makes other people feel marginalized and unwelcome is the antithesis of that.

Lots of misty-eyed talk on these boards about pinball being so meaningful to people because it connects them to others and forges new relationships. If you actually care about fostering that ideal and creating spaces for people to feel welcome, you'd work on that instead.

Last thing I'll say in this thread before I drain it and go on with my life...

I guarantee there are people here who feel the same way I do. You would probably be surprised at how many of them you know. You'd probably consider some of them your friends. Some of them might be players for whom you have the utmost respect.

I'm sure some people here have wives/girlfriends/daughters/female friends that would tell you they love this sort of thing. Fine, ok. But don't get it twisted — that is not a barometer for widespread tolerance. Publicly expressing support in this environment is a safe position to take because it always results in acceptance. Critical positions are unsafe, and this thread is unfortunately a predictable, basic illustration of that.

If nobody in your life is telling you that this stuff is destructive and exclusionary, it's not because that's invalid. It's not because you're the reasonable one and they need to lighten up. It's more likely because they know how it would be received. It's because in communities where casual sexism is encouraged, this point of view is shouted down immediately, people are told to deal with it, and the critical voices are dismissed and outcast. That's why it seems like people are trolling when they bring this up "out of nowhere". That's why you don't hear it more. It's not because of them — it's because of you.