(Topic ID: 19310)

Poll--Do You Agree Or Not, Re: New JJP Policy On Position Sales Before Delivery?


By NM

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by DugFreez
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Do you agree or disagree with JJP's new policy on position sales before delivery?”

    • Agree 55 votes
      52%
    • Disagree 51 votes
      48%

    (106 votes)

    #1 7 years ago

    Just thought it might be interesting to see some poll results on this.

    Jack's new policy in case you missed it:

    "We have a waiting-list for the game.......also, just posted this on
    Pinside:

    I've received about 30+ emails overnight from people about a "seller"
    of ECLEWOZ at under market price.

    Apparently the range of thought is from how can someone sell their
    place in line to its a scam.

    I have not done a lot of thinking about this as this is the very first
    time that someone posted a game for sale. Almost all of the emails to
    me said this; "if someone transfers a game in a sale and JJP needs to
    get involved, put that person at the end of the line"

    Many others said to charge a transfer fee too, which I am not.

    Again, I don't want to get involved, but I am, obviously. Im going to
    listen to my customer base and I will put a trader/new buyer at the
    end of the line.

    Yesterday I heard that a ECLEWOZ sold for $8600 plus freight from a
    distributor. Why would one sell here for $7000 - I don't know and I
    don't know if I should care as long as its not a scam.

    Anyway, do I need to develop a "policy" on a traded game before
    delivery......I guess so. If the game is sold/swapped and we need to
    be involved, that is redirected ownership, redirected freight, the new
    buyer goes to the end of the line for delivery.

    If we need to drop-ship the game to a different address, add $500 as
    well.

    Pre-orders were for buyers, not for speculators before taking
    delivery. It was not the futures market. After delivery you can do
    whatever you want without me in the middle, that is, sell it, trade
    it, cut it in half with a chain saw.....it's yours.

    Like it or not, this is my response based on advice from our customer
    base. If you have a question if the seller is legit, call me.

    By the way, we are building 10 games at the moment that will find
    their way onto location in July. Building about 50 in August and then
    good production numbers into September with real games
    shipping.....that's a timeline update too. Thanks.....Jack"

    #2 7 years ago

    When I saw the first one offered for sale, I posted in that thread that I thought it was surprising that Jack was allowing it.

    I was right to be surprised.

    #3 7 years ago

    Jack has not really thought this out.

    I bought my WOZ last August and had to finish paying the full $7500 last year. I was told I would have a game in March or April by Jack himself. It now looks like it will be one year plus. If I wanted to sell my game now because it has taken too long, I should be able to sell it to a new buyer without penalty. Jack has had use of my $7500. If I wanted to sell for $7600 to recoup the cost of my money, I should be able to do it. $500 plus a loss in my place in line is just not right. I could understand $25-$50 if I want to change a shipping address, but nothing more.

    With that said, I will continue to wait.

    #4 7 years ago

    These are all things that should have been stated BEFORE selling the game.

    #5 7 years ago

    For some reason I think the $500 thing is being misinterpreted. He said he isn't charging a transfer fee. I think the 500 bucks is if shipping has already been arranged and paid for with a shipping company which makes sense because why should JJP eat that but at this phase of the game nothing is shipped. I doubt there is any fee to change the ship to address.

    I think that 500 is to discourage someone from changing the shipping target last minute who had one on order for the sole purpose of flipping it for a profit which is understandable and JJP eats the change cost.

    That's at least how I read it.

    I think the right answer is to not allow transfers at all and just refund the money. The spot goes to the next person in line. That way there is no selling of spots. No one loses except the flippers. If you want to sell, take delivery then sell.

    #6 7 years ago

    I'm leaving this one alone, JJ's got enough other things to worry about right now than this, leave em alone so they can build our games!

    #7 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pinchroma:

    For some reason I think the $500 thing is being misinterpreted. He said he isn't charging a transfer fee. I think the 500 bucks is if shipping has already been arranged and paid for with a shipping company which makes sense because why should JJP eat that but at this phase of the game nothing is shipped. I doubt there is any fee to change the ship to address.
    I think that 500 is to discourage someone from changing the shipping target last minute who had one on order for the sole purpose of flipping it for a profit which is understandable and JJP eats the change cost.

    This definitely needs clarification. On one hand he says no transfer fee. On the other, he says a change in destination means another $500. I don't see how those two statements are compatible, and I don't understand how changing a shipping address on a game that now will not ship until the end of the year at the earliest would cost anywhere near $500.

    #8 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pinchroma:

    For some reason I think the $500 thing is being misinterpreted. He said he isn't charging a transfer fee. I think the 500 bucks is if shipping has already been arranged and paid for with a shipping company which makes sense because why should JJP eat that but at this phase of the game nothing is shipped. I doubt there is any fee to change the ship to address.
    I think that 500 is to discourage someone from changing the shipping target last minute who had one on order for the sole purpose of flipping it for a profit which is understandable and JJP eats the change cost.
    That's at least how I read it.
    I think the right answer is to not allow transfers at all and just refund the money. The spot goes to the next person in line. That way there is no selling of spots. No one loses except the flippers. If you want to sell, take delivery then sell.

    Do you really believe that Jack has pre-paid a shipper to deliver these games?

    It's also hard to justify if say, the original buyer was from LA and the one getting the game transfered to lives in New York. If anything the person should be getting a partial refund for transfering it.

    My suggestion would be to either ship it to the person who paid for it or refund their money. The only reason I would go away from that is because they have overshot there delivey date by a good bit. So if you want to allow transfers that is very nice of Jack under the circumstances. But it seem surprising to say you aren't charging a transfer fee, yet charge a $500 fee to change the shipping location (reguardless of where it WAS going and where it IS going).

    -2
    #9 7 years ago

    I agree. Screw "prospectors" right in the A. If you're REALLY that determined to get rid of an LE, just sell it soon as you get it. You may eat the price of the shipping, but that's nobody else's fault. I see the procedure as a "disincentive" to doing transfers prior to reciept of the preordered game, because you're potentially screwing someone who may be on a wait list to get in on an LE.

    +1 what Alex said..

    #10 7 years ago

    I'm not sure why JJP even needs to know a transfer of ownership has taken place. Simply inform JJP that your new shipping address is "X", i.e. - the new owner's house.
    Scott

    #11 7 years ago

    Does not really matter what I think. It is his buisness let him run it how he sees fit.

    This IMO only affects speculators and those buying pins for nothing more than a chance at a quick profit.

    #12 7 years ago

    I think that it is fine. If you cancel the game, as far as I understand, you get your money back. What this is targeted toward specifically is those who are buying the game with the intent to never take delivery, and then to cancel if they don't appreciate or swap ownership if they do. In that case, the buyer is working directly against the JJP sales model, as if Jack sells 1000 games, but 250 of those are to people who will flip them before ownership or will cancel their orders, it's really like he needs to sell 1250 to cover that.

    And in that case, why doesn't Jack just sell directly to the customer with a lower sales price? That way, the end user is happier. If you take delivery on the game and then sell it, it is totally different, but to me this is a *great* policy that only helps the real buyers of the game. If you don't like it, cancel and Jack can sell the game instead, like he intended to originally.

    #13 7 years ago

    It does not matter if we agree or not. It is his policy and he can do what ever he wants. Don't like it, don't buy from him. I think he is rewarding loyal customers and his approved distributers. Those are the people he feels deserve the rewards.

    The change of address is only going to apply if you sell to a different person before it ships. I know right now I could change my shipping address with no fee if I am still getting it to myself. If I lie and it needs warranty, the next guy might have to deal with it.

    In the end it is his policy. If you want to buy pins to sell. Become a dealer. If you want to be a small time flipper it will cost you to try and take spots from those that are truly interested in the pin.

    #14 7 years ago

    Where is the ...don't care. Vote?

    His buisness.

    19
    #15 7 years ago

    I wrote yesterday that I did not really give much time to thought on this. Today I can write what my gut feeling was yesterday.....that is, let the market do what the market wants to do. If someone wants to offer a game at above or below market, that's great.

    If someone sells their place in line, the new buyer gets that same place in line and there is no $fee to drop ship a game that was already ordered........ disregard what I wrote yesterday. I honestly don't care and I don't want to be involved in any way. I want to build games. What happens after that is up to the free and open marketplace that I always believe in.

    To the many customers that wrote me and were happy about my knee-jerk response I say....my job is not to control or regulate, my job is to build the best games...period. Sorry to any for the confusion, at least you had something to write about for the last day.

    #16 7 years ago

    Thanks Jack. I can't wait for my game.

    #17 7 years ago

    I figured the "I haven't given it much thought, but" comment was nicely placed. Like a built in "out" if you changed your mind. lol. Sounds like a true politician. Nothing wrong with that. I personally have no dog in the race but think you made the right choice. I've watched your business practices in the past and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with you.

    #18 7 years ago

    Great decision. It keeps it real simple for JJP. Administrating ownership changes sounds like a nightmare. Staying out of it lets the free market rule, as it should.
    Scott

    #19 7 years ago

    Thanks Jack. Personally, I could not care any less about this, I just want my game . This is the first JJP pin - I think it will hold it's spot in the collection just fine. Allright...really I can't wait!!! Bring it on Jack! Ok finish it first, but then bring it on!

    #20 7 years ago

    Now I really want to cut one in half with a chainsaw.

    I'm very impressionable.

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    To the many customers that wrote me and were happy about my knee-jerk response I say....my job is not to control or regulate, my job is to build the best games...period. Sorry to any for the confusion, at least you had something to write about for the last day.

    Now that I can respect!

    #22 7 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    I wrote yesterday that I did not really give much time to thought on this. Today I can write what my gut feeling was yesterday.....that is, let the market do what the market wants to do. If someone wants to offer a game at above or below market, that's great.
    If someone sells their place in line, the new buyer gets that same place in line and there is no $fee to drop ship a game that was already ordered........ disregard what I wrote yesterday. I honestly don't care and I don't want to be involved in any way. I want to build games. What happens after that is up to the free and open marketplace that I always believe in.
    To the many customers that wrote me and were happy about my knee-jerk response I say....my job is not to control or regulate, my job is to build the best games...period. Sorry to any for the confusion, at least you had something to write about for the last day.

    Another great decision from an honorable businessman.

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from BackFlipper:

    Another great decision from an honorable businessman.

    He really makes you want to buy a pinball machine from him.

    #24 7 years ago

    Why can't all companies have this level of customer service? All pinball aside, this is a great attitude to have for any company, to cater to the customer even if the customer has their own motives and agendas.

    I really do wish I could afford one of these machines so I could roll with you buying people, unfortunately I am a mere mortal that works an average job for less than average $$$$$. I'll be happy to play this whenever it appears on route somewhere.

    #25 7 years ago

    I don't agree with what I've read.

    You buy the machine, it's yours to do with as you please.. whether it's built and in your hands or not.

    #26 7 years ago

    I think this thread can be closed now since the whole premise has been changed by JJP.

    #27 7 years ago

    I think Jack was concerned to protect his customers from some type of cyber scam meaning people were asking for him to be involved to make sure the translation is legit.

    #28 7 years ago

    Jack comes through with a customer-friendly decision once again. First the Invisiglass solution and now this. Well done Jack! Looking forward to receiving my completed game with strong code. I am sure it will be worth the wait.

    Jim WOZ ECLE#825

    #29 7 years ago

    A wise decision Jack.

    Wishing you continued success.

    #30 7 years ago

    I am very glad Jack changed his stance on this. I thought it was really unfair to buyers the other way.

    #31 7 years ago

    I'm just a grasshopper in this very large turf of pinball people. I simply cannot wait to play the game. Cheers to you Jack! Hope to meet up with you and shake your hand for contributing so much to the industry and the hobby.

    Oh and...IBTL

    #32 7 years ago

    As far as I know, the WOZ pre-orders have been very personal transactions. I never signed anything; there was no contract; we just signed up and started paying. Is that a smart business move? Not on the part of the buyer, but the pre-orders were also a way of people demonstrating a show of faith and support of JJP. I imagine in the future there will be more specific terms of such purchases. But this first one is more historic and personal than business like. Jack called a lot of the people on the phone who had pre-orders and took time to speak with them. It shouldn't come as a surprise that he wants to try to make everyone happy and is willing to change his policy. I kinda figured even if he decided to maintain the original policy, anyone calling him up on the phone would probably get him to waive it by simply talking to him. He's a very reasonable guy in my experience.

    #33 7 years ago

    Gotta love the way Jack responds to feedback. Just like he did on the Invisiglass logo (which turned out to be way overblown to begin with).

    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    I don't agree with what I've read.
    You buy the machine, it's yours to do with as you please.. whether it's built and in your hands or not.

    Well, technically, it isn't possible to do whatever you want with a machine that doesn't exist But I get your point.

    #34 7 years ago
    Quoted from BackFlipper:

    Another great decision from an honorable businessman.

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