My question is...when does everyone expect them to announce their next title?

I would hope Pinball Expo.

Though after the Monster Bash delays, TPF to Expo. Maybe they will wait until they can start shipping ? So could be sooner. Could be later.

LTG : )
Disclaimer : I am getting excited. Something should be coming soon I hope.

So there ya have it folks.... from what I misread into Lloyd's post, Twilight Zone is next

QSS

I’m not picking on you mzhulk because a TON of people agree with your reasoning and have said similar things... but my experience differs... People make this statement about TAF (the game I’m hoping for) all the time. Many people who make this statement appear to own a TAF that they bought years ago so they aren’t really in the market for one. In my experience everyone wants $5-6k for this game and they have modified the crap out of it with junk that isn’t original. The game is often beat to hell too but a “nice” game for 20 years old all things considered.

There is a market for people willing to spend another $500 to $1000 for something brand new shipped to their door. No games no negotiations... etc. However if anyone with a cheap perfect condition TAF wants to prove me wrong by selling me their beautiful game for $3-4k because they are so plentiful and easy to get please prove me wrong.

TAF? 14k made. Why there are tons and tons of these machines in the wild. While some think it's a no brainer it would
have to be like Monster Bash and AFM better than original in every way. That of course would blow up
Pinside forums with I don't like it the tech just feels new. Playfield is to bright and dimples to easily.
Not an impossible game to find with repro playfield.

TOM - 6000 of them made. Probably 3000-4000 still clanking away. Not impossible to find

TOTAN - 3100 ish made. Harder title to find still not impossible Gameplay has been said to
be lacking by many who own it. Though in a offshore foreign market it would do well.

CV - 2700 iish made - This one seems to be a bit harder to find a decent working one.
There are alot of things going on and it seems to appeal to large audiences. Was the
free table on The Pinball Arcade which is somewhat responsible for pinball resurgence.
I would be sorely tempted for sure.

CC - 900 ish made. - Hard to find at a reasonable cost. Yet without CC Continued is this
even worth it? Some cool features but rinse repeat

BBB - 14 made.- Not everyone can afford to get this title. I've never played one. Not sure it would
roll of the line.

My money would be on CV, TOM or TOTAN. There is just enough of a market of people left who
don't have the patience or time to wait out those titles. BBB is a title I can't comment on as I've
never played nor have a desire to chase as it looks slightly dated. CC seems like it would do okay
but I'm not running out the door to get one of these without the CC continued code or similar updates.
Did they say they might do TAF or not. That might sell some units with all the enhancements and
reliability may improve it would be the first big license theme they'd have to do and possibly a PITA.

there are around 200 BBB in the wild now. It would be my nb 1 (difficult to find in europe).

I agree with most of your takes.

I put some time on a CC in the wild this spring/summer and while I’m in love with the theme, w/o finished code the game is not worth it. It wasn’t finished. If CGC doesn’t address this and opts to bring it to production anyways, I’m not sure it will sell.

I’ve played a few games on BBB on location. While it’s an attractive Bally/Williams style game, the game/rules are really thin. And some of the call outs are downright annoying. My guess is that people appreciate that game more because of its rarity over actual gameplay. It wouldn’t last in my collection.

TOM would be an attractive remake, but again...the game gets boring quick. Almost everything is focused around hitting the trunk over and over. It’s a good location game, but do you really want to hear ‘you have the magic’ a thousand times in your collection?

I played CV recently and again....shoot the ring master, rinse and repeat. Colorful game, theme and some gameplay is interesting. By today’s gameplay standards, it’s not aged as well as MM, MB, and AFM.

My money is on an updated MMr before any new games are announced. It just makes sense because it sold so well, people still want it (I know I do), and they’ve talked about aligning it with the other remakes for over a year.

Without a doubt the game that demands the most money (if its restored or in incredible shape) is IJ....TOTAN, TOM, TAF, WW would all be good choices, but IJ would easily sell out of CGC's LE allotment ....

IJ - williams Indiana Jones - is that even an option?

Not sure why it wouldn't be since its old Bally/Williams game....the challenge I hear with IJ and TAF is licensing....

The challenge is not licensing. People keep saying this however it is completely not true.

The challenge is convincing Planetary Pinball and CGC to make one or both.

If thats not the case then IJ is a no brainer....if their goal is to make money then that title demands the highest dollar...especially if it was upgraded with a large color screen and a killer topper....

Correct. A few people explained why it might be a challenge and then a bunch of pinside posts later it was accepted as a fact that licensing was a problem that couldn’t be solved. There is no actual basis for this belief that I have seen (as in CGC confirmed it would be impossible because X).

Licensing is and can be complicated (I have experience in this area) but I’m not aware of any direct evidence this is an actual roadblock here...

Movie based, actors have limits on their licensing no? I suspect they’d have to get licensing for the voice and image again . I haven’t acted in years or ever and nobody made a pinball about me so just spitballing

Every deal is different. They could have sold their likenesses in perpetuity related to the movie to Bally/Williams for pinball purposes back in the 90s. They may have sold them for 5 years only. Each actor could have the same deal or a different one. We would need the agreements to know for sure.

If CGC does decide to do a IJ do not hold your breath waiting for a topper. The original licences are now owned by Planetary Pinball. As long as the reproductions are within the existing license agreement they can be remade (same for TAF). Extras like toppers could cause issues as they will require additional licensing.

If you are lucky enough to go to a Pinball show and CGC and/or Planetary Pinball are there, ask them yourself! All the animations on the remakes are based of the originals and only colourised so there are no issues. All the sound is the same, it has just been digitised to make it clearer, but still the same sounds as the original.

That isn't right is it ?

Scientific Games owns Williams. Planetary Pinball licenses rights from them. Planetary doesn't own them.

Big difference. Planetary Pinball has to get the okay from Scientific on anything using Williams' stuff they do.

LTG : )

Thanks for clearing that up. Our distro in Australia used to own the rights and I thought he sold them to Planetary.

We sold the License and the 78 Patents and website we owned outright.

I own an AFMr. My point is that "movie stars" licensing for image/voice is likely different than the manufacturer created callouts on games like AFM. Seems they have done the "non-star" related games so far, no? I'm guessing remaking a game without any extra licensing hurdles/costs is a lot more palatable than getting Harrison Ford to sign off on a pinball etc.

All good intel on the licenses.... why would a topper be an issue as it clearly was not on AFMRLE and MBRLE....theres no doubt that the title that would make the most market sense is IJ (market demand, brand, highly rated game, high market pricing)....great examples of this game sell for $10K+ .....

Did they say where and if an announcement on game 4 is coming.

At this point I'd be safe to say they have several built out prototypes and cost analysis on the games they have already mentioned.
Really dig the board used on Monster Bash remake - Has room for an upper Right Flipper on it. Why might they put that there?

An Indy pin with lcd and full movie-assets/integration would be truuly awesome.
On that i think cgc is doing a great thing, but i Do think rewamp code-wise, lcd etc is somewhat needed to really take off saleswise.

Anything newly created could possibly require expanded licenses but more importantly would almost certainly require various approvals that reproduction of existing previously approved things may not require. What picture did you use? What does the likeness of the new action figure or sculpture look like? Movie studio must approve or actor must approve etc. All this depends on the actual various agreements in place so this is speculation based on experience with other IP stuff.

I don't think they need to anything (just like the other remakes)...IJRLE with LED's, color, large display, brass trim and killer topper would sell like hot cakes. IJ is the one game that meets the same criteria of the other remakes....Highly ranked game, market demand, market pricing....try to find a great example of an IJ with a color dmd....their $9K+

Hope for Cactus Canyon. I have played maybe 5 games and would love to get more time on it.

I think it would be a great idea to a new TAF using the art and sound from the new movie coming out. Make the same exact game, replace the characters with the cartoon ones, do new call outs - the same, but with actors who sound more like the cartoon.

This won't happen - but it would be a way to sell TAF in a new way

Shame.... shame.......shame..... There is only one Gomez and Morticia Addams in my book; Raul Julia and Anjelica Huston. No offense to Oscar and Charlize who are great actors or even John and Carolyn but Raul and Anjelica are where it's at for me. TAF is the game that got me into pinball. While my friends were playing street fighter, Mortal Kombat or off road racing, I was by myself on the redemption side of the arcade with the skee-ball machines playing TAF.

The following quote is posted on planetarypinball.com...

“Planetary Pinball Supply - License Rights:
Please note that Planetary Pinball is the sole rights holder of trademark and copyright for Williams(tm) and Bally(tm) pinball machines, pinball parts, and game merchandise. We have worldwide perpetual exclusive license from Williams Electronics Gaming for the production of games and pinball parts.”

Please see declaration of our rights from WMS Gaming (now owned by Scientific Games) HERE

http://www.planetarypinball.com/docs/PPS%20Rights%20Letter%20-%20SGI-WEG.pdf

Which us why CGC should consider starting to make their own games and not just remakes. With their built in advantage and expertise in making playfields and cabinets, they could hire a few experienced designers and software engineers and really make a dent in Stern's business.

That is the plan at some point.

LTG : )

just because a game was made in the past that involved a 3rd party License Williams obtained from the License Holder NOW EXPIRED

You can't make an IJ as it would involve signing up all involved, actors and Lucas Arts don't own the rights either its Disney and no longer license OLD INDY assets.

That is FANTASTIC news!

If it is to be IJ.....can they make a better backglass? lol. Maybe actually put Indy in the art?

This in my opinion would guarantee huge sales.

Highly agree!!

For what its worth, I think an independent, un-licensed theme from the B/W lineup of the past that deserves a sequel, which could be very lucrative if they do a good job of incorporating original assets into a sequel title and retain the “fun factor” that draws people back to these titles of the past. We have seen 2.0 versions of existing tables, Bride 2.0, and the CCC enhancements, the non-code CGC enhancements on their remakes, and I ask you, as a CGC owner myself, would you be intereseted in AFM III- The Third Wave from CGC? Or MMII, or even Monster Bash- The Farewell Tour... and they totally change up the main toys but keep the themes? Yep, sign me up. They could make sequels of older titles and I would not just nibble, I would be taking huge mouth-sized chunks, I would be eating this up with a fork, knife, and a spoon. But lest we not forget, the recent BKSoR release from Stern tried to capitalize on this very same thing, and although I enjoy flipping the new table, when I am done, I feel I would have had just as much fun playing either of the two orginal titles, which doesnt say alot about SoR, at least beyond the twinge of nostalgia I get from playing it. With software updates it might get better, game wise, because it flipped nice, and some of the shots are exactly the same as the old tables. Just my $0.02

Hopefully a good remake for #4. Stern quality and recent title ain’t doing it for me.

Black Pyramid II there's your Indy Pin.

I am going to make the following prediction:

2019 #4 remake - TOM
2020 #5 remake - TOTAN

I agree. I think funhouse with updated rule set and lcd animation could be fun. Even a funhouse 2 with a new design would be nice for a semi original theme. That would cover both ends. Give people a taste of new design and keeps with the remake theme.

I agree with your prediction. Only the timing. I don't think we see another pin till 2020, then 2021. These make sense for copy rights. No actors, musicians, or lawyers to clog things up.

I agree that I could be a year off. But I think they will at least announce the next remake this year. And ship it early next year. First pins would be dated as manufactured in 2019.

They have a pattern...Williams, Bally, Williams. I think a Bally will be next.

Cactus Canyon with revamped code. Not CCC code, is my guess.

If true, this is what can really can take things next level. Popular theme, great layout and more complete, modernized code? Who’d want an original?

I find it very hard to believe licensing for IJ wouldn’t be very expensive and difficult to do. On top of the expensive license, it is a wide body and expensive pin to remake.

The demand may be there but when all these factors are taken into consideration, not sure CGC could remake it at a price point it would sell well. Too expensive.

I think this would be a great idea as well. How about something like Expedition Everest with the abominable snowman yeti as a sequel to Whitewater? Incorporate snow mountains with new twists, deeper code, and newer technology.

They did that with Jackbot and Pinbot. jackbot gets no love, even though it’s the better game hands down.

A brand spanking new Pinbot would be cool. Jackbot is cool too. But I think Pinbot would get the nod for production if was ever considered. That would be neat.

Personally think they should have just made Jackbot a Pinbot 2. Used the exact same artwork as Pinbot. That whole cards in outer space them just kills it for me.