Well they lost my purchase. I was holding out for a while but I just ordered JP and AIQ. Wife was looking forward to CC as she really enjoyed playing it at the PHOF the last time we were there.

I wish they took the rights to kingpin so it could have a shot at getting made in bulk. Having had a original it’s far more fun then cactus canyon. Having owned a cactus canyon as well, I hope they incorporated the prototype swinging saloon doors in front of Bart

Addams family will never get remade... Christopher Lloyd does not give out his likeness. Which is why the last Addams movie was animated and fester looked nothing like him...Addams family is a no go don’t even bother hoping

So TPF next year to announce the next remake? That’s ridiculous.

Who said that ?

LTG : )

I got to spend some time with CC last year, and while I liked a lot of it, I don't think it was in the same class as many of the other B/W classics.

The Bart bash toy was not particularly fun, and the whole train on a track thing seemed like an expensive mech that didn't really do anything (it looks like the ball should somehow go into the back of the train and then get carried along or something - but instead it's really just an expensive timer).

The spinning bowl thing didn't add much fun either. On the other hand, the pop-up drop targets were a lot of fun, and the mine was interesting.

The layout in general wasn't bad, but it also wasn't great - and I don't think it could be made into something great (regardless of whatever improved software could be added).

Does this mean no new BTTF pin too?

CGC can remake TAF if they want to.

Yes, but it's likely that they would have to renegotiate the license, and that would probably not include Lloyd's likeness. So they would probably have to do that weird altering of the likeness that they did for the digital versions.

Personally, I don't think having a "generic" Uncle Fester is that big a deal, but it might be a problem for some people.

If I were to predict the next cgc remake(s), it would have to be TOTANbased on these factors.
1) Next highest non-licensed (invented/original) theme on the top 100 After MM, AFM, MB.
2) lower production under 4K units.
3) requires no tricky 3rd party licensing (like seeking licenses from studios or actors).
After that is has to be white water and cactus canyon as a 3 game offering after the big 3 (mm,
AFM, mb).
I did skip Elvira as the stern EHOH is hot.

TOTAN?

They can use mine.

LTG : )
Disclaimer : Especially if it's PTC !

If CGC wanted to remake TAF, couldn't they just use the playfields that are currently being manufactured under license by CPR and Mirco? Or are there other assets related to Christopher Lloyd in the game?

Yes, TOTAN.

Uncle Fester is on the backglass as well, though it's a pretty small picture. They could probably easily modify it to not be Lloyd's image.

What is the deal with the new TAF playfields? Do they use the original image of Fester, or is it the modified one?

Who wouldn't buy a brand new twilight zone?

Well supposedly CGC does not want to do widebodies...and there are also complex licensing issues with TZ as well.

It's the original one. For Pinball Arcade they used a modified one. TAF backglasses are manufactured also today I think?

That's unfortunate. It's one of the all time greats and they're getting really expensive for old beat up machines.

I agree on the licensing complications prohibiting TZ and TAF.
Plus both of those games aren’t hard to get. The build cost on both would be crazy.

TOM before TOTAN IMHO.

Not a bad bet. Opportunities on sound diversity, especially with the voice over call outs, lots of toys, and perhaps some better overall special
effects, lighting, and mechanics.
Definitely a game that can be produced better with some wow factor.

So how do CPR and Mirco make replacement new playfields that are exactly the same as the original?

I don't know the details, but I believe the licensing issues for "replacement parts" are different than those of new machines. It is possible that Williams had no time limit on the ability to produce/secure replacement parts but had a limited time window to sell actual machines.

So why would that not apply to a game if you made it the same?

CGC have said they could remake TAF if they wanted too.

That's not the way licensing (usually) works. You normally license a property for a specific product (or perhaps product range) for a specified time period, like two years. And that may come with the ability to reproduce replacement parts "as needed" for some longer period (perhaps even indefinitely). That does NOT mean you have the rights to produce more "products" indefinitely.

This is how JJP was able to make a POTC machine...the license that Stern had for their POTC machine had ended. Stern may still be allowed to produce new POTC playfields as replacement parts if they wanted, but they couldn't sell new POTC machines.

Could CGC remake TAF "if they wanted to"? Sure, assuming that they can renegotiate the rights from Paramount (or whoever it is that owns the rights to the Addams Family movies at this point), just like they had to renegotiate the rights to the Universal Monsters for MBr.

A related question (that I don't know the answer to) is did Planetary Pinball / CGC license the rights to the Williams catalog, or did they BUY the rights? And if they licensed them, for what time period was it? Do they have a limited window to produce new machines, or as the owner can they potentially license those rights out to other people?

PP bought the rights and PP licenses the rights to others. That's the way I understand it to be.

Is this what you are referring too? This is copied from the PPS website.

Q: Will PPS make games?
A: PPS has acquired the right to produce (with WEG approval) new pinball machines under the Bally mark and logo. We will explore options to bring a limited number of new or re-issued games to the market. In the short term, however, we will focus on increasing the number of replacement parts which are available to preserve the games which are out there.

http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=FAQS

I swear i read the agreement on the PPS site in the past. I will try and find it again.

There is this also from their site.

Q : Is Williams Electronics Games, Inc. involved in this?
A: Absolutely. Williams Electronics Games, Inc. (WEG) controls the rights to make pinball parts and games under the Williams and Bally trademarks, as well as the copyrights to all Williams and Bally (BLY) games and associated parts. WEG licensed the rights to make spare parts for all the existing Williams and Bally games, as well as the rights to manufacture new games under the Bally mark and logo to MPBA. These rights were transferred to PPS in October, 2010.
WEG continues to be the authority for approval of new WMS/BLY licensed parts and products, and PPS will work with WEG as its licensee. In addition, as with any licensee, PPS is obligated to notify WEG of any infringing activity that it becomes aware of.

Planetary Pinball Supply - License Rights:
Please note that Planetary Pinball is the sole rights holder of trademark and copyright for Williams(tm) and Bally(tm) pinball machines, pinball parts, and game merchandise. We have worldwide perpetual exclusive license from Williams Electronics Gaming for the production of games and pinball parts.

Where is this game?!!?

How hard would it be to get the Scared Stiff license? I’m sure Cassandra Peterson would be down for a remake of it.

if this happens.....something in my line up is on the chopping block

Same here. Only it will be my original Scared Stiff out the door and and new Scared Stiff LE in its place.

I am guessing Cassandra is contractually barred from licensing an Elvira game to a competitor for a period of years after the release of EHOH. It seems reasonable enough.

Pleas read posts 930, 932 and 933. That will answer your question and stop you guessing! Old games can be remade.

I don't follow. I'm sure they would still need additional licensing from Elvira, just like they would for the actors in TAF or TZ if they remade those games.

Exactly. They had to go back to Universal to get the rights to the Monsters for Monster Bash. And they would have to go back to get the rights to Elvira (in addition to the rights they already have from Williams) to remake Scared Stiff.

Ok. You guys know more than CGC and PPS.

Maybe you could enlighten us and show us the exact wording that states they can make *any* game they want from the entire B/W library without any additional licensing. I would have thought that it's fairly common knowledge that that's not how it works. Farsight couldn't do it with their virtual recreations. Hell, the original manufacturers of these machines couldn't even make more machines after their associated licenses expired. Could Stern just go ahead and run more Tron without renewing the license with Disney? Of course not.

There have been plenty of us on this thread including the owner of PPS explaining otherwise. I give up.

What about new/different toppers? Or a LE plaque?

Those are just two examples of new things that will need a new/updated license.

Correct. That is what caused the issue with MBr, The topper. I am not sure about the numbered plaque.

The details of the agreement is spelled out on the PPS website.

Planetary Pinball Supply - License Rights:
Please note that Planetary Pinball is the sole rights holder of trademark and copyright for Williams(tm) and Bally(tm) pinball machines, pinball parts, and game merchandise. We have worldwide perpetual exclusive license from Williams Electronics Gaming for the production of games and pinball parts.

764BBE21-D630-4581-89E4-DAA736FE6D02 (resized).png

Yes, the key sticking point would be "to the extent these items do not involve third party intellectual property rights requiring additional licensing". So AFM, MM, no problem. MB problem (maybe? not sure what deals CGC had to work). TZ, TAF, IJ, potential problem.

"to the extent these items do not involve third party intellectual property rights requiring additional licensing"

Exactly as I was saying...they still need to secure the rights to other properties owned by other parties. To make a game like Elivra or TAF, PPS needs BOTH the Williams rights to the machine design (which they have), and the rights to those other properties (which they don't - yet).

Some of those rights may be easy to obtain, others may be very expensive (Indiana Jones, STTNG), others may be very complicated (TZ - due to Rod Serling's likeness being a separate thing from the TV series), and others may not be available at all (Elvira - depending upon the details of Stern's current license).

The MBr remake was reported to have been delayed because there was some hold up in finalizing the deal with Universal for their Monsters.

This is why it will be easier/cheaper to remake stuff like Whitewater, TOM, or TOTAN, since they already have all the rights they need for those machines.

That is a fact. The reason for the delay for MBr was because PPS was waiting for approval from Universal. We were already prepared to showcase the game and it took longer than expected to wait for approval. Once they accepted we were allowed to reveal the game on Renopinball.com on Twitch.