PMD CFTBL LCD Hologram MOD - Discontinued

(Topic ID: 76616)

PMD CFTBL LCD Hologram MOD - Discontinued


By PinballMikeD

5 years ago



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#451 2 years ago

Wow! That is a lot of work. Good luck and Godspeed. Sorry that happened. I hope insurance came through.

#452 2 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

has the wife complained about how much you've ruined the landscaping yet?

No, she knows it's necessary to address our water issues. We still have a long way to go, but it's getting better

1 month later
#453 2 years ago

To all,

I've decided to pull the plug on resurrecting this MOD. With everything going on in my life, I just don't have enough time to start anymore pinball projects. As always, I'll continue to support any/all existing PMD customers, just shoot me an email.

Regards,

Mike

#455 2 years ago

Thanks for the continued support, MikeD.

#456 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

To all,
I've decided to pull the plug on resurrecting this MOD. With everything going on in my life, I just don't have enough time to start anymore pinball projects. As always, I'll continue to support any/all existing PMD customers, just shoot me an email.
Regards,
Mike

That news has crushed me, sorry to hear that Mike but now if ANYONE has this mod they're thinking of selling, PLEASE contact me. I've been after one of these for a couple of years now.....

#457 2 years ago

Mike- My best to you and your family. Life first. We can't have hard feelings on your decision.
I'm optimistic that maybe later this year or next, you might have time and be willing to make these again.

#458 2 years ago

let's not be too sad, fellas. maybe someone else can take this task on instead?
who has the skills and the time?

obviously someone may want to make a fat stack of profit doing it, but i hope that whoever does the job also shows us all how to do it at cost.

#459 2 years ago

There was someone in Germany (I believe) a while back who was promising a new video mod and even collected pre-order (won't we ever learn) money for it. He and the mod evaporated...

#460 2 years ago

Totally understandable, Mike... big of you to put it out there rather than keeping people hanging. This was definitely one of the best mods ever - maybe the community will figure out a way to keep it going (that is, with your blessing)

#461 2 years ago
Quoted from cooldan:

let's not be too sad, fellas. maybe someone else can take this task on instead?
who has the skills and the time?

I could probably do it. I emailed Mike to see if he's interested... not really interested in the profit, I'm sure Mike wasn't making mortgage payments off the mod in the first place. It's a hobby, we do it for fun!

#462 2 years ago

yay for mavantix!

#463 2 years ago

Mavantix, I'd be into helping you out if this gets going. Im a programmer by trade, and I'm not entirely sure what is needed to get this mod up and going, but it's so awesome, seems like a good way to "give back". Plus I'm down the road from you...

#464 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

To all,
I've decided to pull the plug on resurrecting this MOD. With everything going on in my life, I just don't have enough time to start anymore pinball projects. As always, I'll continue to support any/all existing PMD customers, just shoot me an email.
Regards,
Mike

way to take the coward's way out you wuss. I'll be sure to mail you a new dress and apron too!

#465 2 years ago

cooldan rdoyle1978 Mike replied to my email, and explained the challenges, mainly regarding supply of the various components, and software changes needed to support newer model RPi. It sounds like a ground up project really, making options for resurrection analogous to just building a new mod in the same spirt as this one. Thoughts? I'm wondering if there is any way to accomplish a similar mod to what Mike has built using more off the shelf components, making the kit easier to obtain/build... I'm assuming the most complex piece is the switch matrix intercept board, so it can track the modes? Pascal Janin did similar with his PI-SIM board, wonder if we could recruit his talent?

#466 2 years ago

Im all for any support I can offer! Im a graphic designer, and this mod really does add a ton to the game.

#467 2 years ago

Im in for one if you can make them up. I love the mod and was looking forward to getting one. sorry nothing i can offer as far as help. but if you need something just ask and ill see if i can help with

#468 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

cooldan rdoyle1978 Mike replied to my email, and explained the challenges, mainly regarding supply of the various components, and software changes needed to support newer model RPi. It sounds like a ground up project really, making options for resurrection analogous to just building a new mod in the same spirt as this one. Thoughts? I'm wondering if there is any way to accomplish a similar mod to what Mike has built using more off the shelf components, making the kit easier to obtain/build... I'm assuming the most complex piece is the switch matrix intercept board, so it can track the modes? Pascal Janin did similar with his PI-SIM board, wonder if we could recruit his talent?

Understood - the software should be the easiest part. I'd be more than happy to jump on that, but we'd need Mike's code to start with (or somebody to copy an SDcard with it on there). I have 5 or 6 Pis ("Pies?") that are up to the challenge. I think I have a Pi Nano somewhere, which might be the most cost effective option, but only if we can source some of the other parts.

Is there a BOM somewhere? I don't have one of these mods so I don't know what is required. Yes, a 19" LCD screen (cheap) and the Pi, but I am not familiar with the switch matrix board. Can somebody post some pictures? There's almost certainly a way to do this, parts are swappable. Did Mike mention which parts are the most difficult to find?

#469 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Understood - the software should be the easiest part. I'd be more than happy to jump on that, but we'd need Mike's code to start with (or somebody to copy an SDcard with it on there). I have 5 or 6 Pis ("Pies?") that are up to the challenge. I think I have a Pi Nano somewhere, which might be the most cost effective option, but only if we can source some of the other parts.
Is there a BOM somewhere? I don't have one of these mods so I don't know what is required. Yes, a 19" LCD screen (cheap) and the Pi, but I am not familiar with the switch matrix board. Can somebody post some pictures? There's almost certainly a way to do this, parts are swappable. Did Mike mention which parts are the most difficult to find?

One thing to improve, which I gather Mike intended to do with a mooted updated kit, was improve latency between media playing and modes starting or events being triggered.

I think my kit is from the second run of kits, and in common with all the youtube footage I've seen, the lag is quite considerable. Still a huge improvement on the static hologram, but something that could really make it way more interactive if the latency is significantly lowered.

Not sure whether it's an issue of low storage read speed, low processing power, or both (probably both).

TLDR don't go for the cheapest Pi (they're all cheap) as it may prove rather limiting.

#470 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

One thing to improve, which I gather Mike intended to do with a mooted updated kit, was improve latency between media playing and modes starting or events being triggered.
I think my kit is from the second run of kits, and in common with all the youtube footage I've seen, the lag is quite considerable. Still a huge improvement on the static hologram, but something that could really make it way more interactive if the latency is significantly lowered.
Not sure whether it's an issue of low storage read speed, low processing power, or both (probably both).
TLDR don't go for the cheapest Pi (they're all cheap) as it may prove rather limiting.

Well the Pi3 has the most advanced processor and most RAM, but all of the PIs share the same exact GPU, which is doing most of the work in playing the video (which is, I think, the most resource-intensive thing this mod would do). Reading switch voltages and doing fairly simple logic evaluations should be blazing fast on any of them. The playing of video, unfortunately, takes time on these things. this can be sped up a tiny bit with a super-fast SD card, but the Pi GPU is just not the greatest. I'll have to do a test to see which one uses faster RAM, which can be more important than how *much*

#471 2 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

way to take the coward's way out you wuss. I'll be sure to mail you a new dress and apron too!

Don't you have some lighted leg protectors to make clock boy!!!!!!

#472 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Well the Pi3 has the most advanced processor and most RAM, but all of the PIs share the same exact GPU, which is doing most of the work in playing the video (which is, I think, the most resource-intensive thing this mod would do). Reading switch voltages and doing fairly simple logic evaluations should be blazing fast on any of them. The playing of video, unfortunately, takes time on these things. this can be sped up a tiny bit with a super-fast SD card, but the Pi GPU is just not the greatest. I'll have to do a test to see which one uses faster RAM, which can be more important than how *much*

The 3 really has the same GPU as the original? Not even same type but more cores or higher clock?

I'm pretty sure some of the Taiwanese or Chinese Pi alternatives have much stronger GPUs. They may be a better bet in this case, then.

#473 2 years ago

The ASUS Tinker board would perhaps be perfect ... it has a far stronger GPU, and supports H.265 which would keep video file sizes minimal and further reduce loading and response times.

As it's made by ASUS and just came out, support and long term availability should not be issues either.

Slight overkill perhaps, but it's still within the realms of affordability. £55 in the UK and I'd guess around $65 when it hits US shelves.

#474 2 years ago

First of all, the MOD isn’t looking at the switch matrix. The MOD’s RPi intercepts trigger signals from the lamp matrix via the GPIO inputs.

Video start/stop delays are programmed to ensure modes aren’t activated/de-activated by false trigger conditions – this was done intentionally. For example, every lamp in the game blinks when an extra ball is awarded, so we had to program around game play conditions like this that would falsely activate (or deactivate) videos features. In addition, we wanted to give people the ability to load their own videos for every interactive feature, regardless of the file format (.mov, .avi, etc.). Loading videos on the fly does add some processing delay. However, the flexibility of giving users unlimited customizable videos for every game mode is the best part of the MOD – just my opinion.

The GPU on the RPi is fine.

There is no current BOM that is relevant, virtually everything has changed: RPI, TV, etc.

This MOD would have to be re-engineered from the ground up. This is why I pulled the plug, just don't have time at the moment.

#475 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Understood - the software should be the easiest part. I'd be more than happy to jump on that, but we'd need Mike's code to start with (or somebody to copy an SDcard with it on there). I have 5 or 6 Pis ("Pies?") that are up to the challenge. I think I have a Pi Nano somewhere, which might be the most cost effective option, but only if we can source some of the other parts.
Is there a BOM somewhere? I don't have one of these mods so I don't know what is required. Yes, a 19" LCD screen (cheap) and the Pi, but I am not familiar with the switch matrix board. Can somebody post some pictures? There's almost certainly a way to do this, parts are swappable. Did Mike mention which parts are the most difficult to find?

You can get a sense for the components required in his documentation here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pmd-cftbl-lcd-hologram-mod-version-20#post-1369973

The hard to obtain part of the hardware is the part Mike refers to as the interface board, it's his own design AFAIK, not an off the self board. It feeds the events to the RPi.

I don't know Mike's stance on the code, if he open sourced it or would even care if we try reinventing/copying from it. Probably best to have his blessing if we do proceed.

Edit: I see Mike replied while I was typing the above, thanks for the info Mike! Makes sense. Thoughts on the interface board and code? Do you care if we reverse engineer/copy your design?

#476 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

You can get a sense for the components required in his documentation here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pmd-cftbl-lcd-hologram-mod-version-20#post-1369973
The hard to obtain part of the hardware is the part Mike refers to as the interface board, it's his own design AFAIK, not an off the self board. It feeds the events to the RPi.
I don't know Mike's stance on the code, if he open sourced it or would even care if we try reinventing/copying from it. Probably best to have his blessing if we do proceed.
Edit: I see Mike replied while I was typing the above, thanks for the info Mike! Makes sense. Thoughts on the interface board and code? Do you care if we reverse engineer/copy your design?

Understood. I wouldn't want to do this at all unless Mike was ok with it. Hopefully he'd be ok w/ sharing the code, but if we have to move to a new computer-on-a-chip then that's more or less moot anyway. Still, mapping out the logic wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I am going to look at the Pinduino, since that's kind of a similar thing; that has an interface that may be useful.

#477 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

The 3 really has the same GPU as the original? Not even same type but more cores or higher clock?
I'm pretty sure some of the Taiwanese or Chinese Pi alternatives have much stronger GPUs. They may be a better bet in this case, then.

Yep, sure does. Broadcom VideoCore IV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VideoCore

#478 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

First of all, the MOD isn’t looking at the switch matrix. The MOD’s RPi intercepts trigger signals from the lamp matrix via the GPIO inputs.
Video start/stop delays are programmed to ensure modes aren’t activated/de-activated by false trigger conditions – this was done initially. For example, every lamp in the game blinks when an extra ball is awarded, so we had to program around game play conditions like this that would falsely activate (or deactivate) videos features. In addition, we wanted to give people the ability to load their own videos for every interactive feature, regardless of the file format (.mov, .avi, etc.). Loading videos on the fly does add some processing delay. However, the flexibility of giving users unlimited customizable videos for every game mode is the best part of the MOD – just my opinion.
The GPU on the RPi is fine.
There is no current BOM that is relevant, virtually everything has changed: RPI, TV, etc.
This MOD would have to be re-engineered from the ground up. This is why I pulled the plug, just don't have time at the moment.

Thanks, Mike, this all makes sense. Including why it's kind of a PITA to build it

#479 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Video start/stop delays are programmed to ensure modes aren’t activated/de-activated by false trigger conditions – this was done initially. For example, every lamp in the game blinks when an extra ball is awarded, so we had to program around game play conditions like this that would falsely activate (or deactivate) videos features. In addition, we wanted to give people the ability to load their own videos for every interactive feature, regardless of the file format (.mov, .avi, etc.). Loading videos on the fly does add some processing delay. However, the flexibility of giving users unlimited customizable videos for every game mode is the best part of the MOD – just my opinion.
The GPU on the RPi is fine.

That makes sense. However, in my view it does break immersion quite significantly with some of the delays ... particularly where there's a significant pause at the start of a mode in the game itself, and then the media only begins playing some time after the pause (by which time you're conce trating more on the ball than the pf window).

Others may disagree, but I think it's definitely something worth experimenting with, if this is to be resurrected.

#480 2 years ago

If this does get reserected, I would buy one. I regret selling the one I had ...

#481 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

That makes sense. However, in my view it does break immersion quite significantly with some of the delays ... particularly where there's a significant pause at the start of a mode in the game itself, and then the media only begins playing some time after the pause (by which time you're conce trating more on the ball than the pf window).
Others may disagree, but I think it's definitely something worth experimenting with, if this is to be resurrected.

No doubt, everything can be improved

#482 2 years ago

Oh man, now I am glad the guy who bought my Creature did not want Mikes Mod with it!! Hopefully someone else can recreate it, defiantly a must have for me and one of the best mods created.

#483 2 years ago

I'll buy one if it gets remade. I wish that guy from Germany had come through. I think he bit off more than he could chew

#484 2 years ago

I think a lot of people would be willing to purchase. I would.

#485 2 years ago
Quoted from Litedpinballmods:

I think a lot of people would be willing to purchase. I would.

Yea, there are a bunch of us kicking our own asses for not buying one. I didn't buy one because I'm too stupid to download the video onto it and get the screen working. I need it plug and play.

#486 2 years ago

I bought one and sold the creature I had at the time with it inside. I remember very distinctly telling myself "no big deal, Ill get another one"

#487 2 years ago

.

Time ago a friend asked me if I could develop an hologram mod for his CREATURE. At that moment my controller board was already developed some time ago, this controller board capture status of both pinball matrix, inputs for all switches and outputs for any bumper, flasher, lamps, motor, etc.. I developed my controller board for another mods, even to become an universal controller board to trigger any mod.

In the beginning the idea was to do it with a TABLET 10.1" and an acrylic bracket fixed directly under playfield, so a very compact design, CPU, GPU, screen all in one device, and receive status of matrix, wireless by WIFI or Bluetooth. But finally agreement was to do it with a Raspberry pi 3 and a 13" TFT. The TFT to put directly in the original hologram bracket, or tablet with an acrylic bracket under playfield, so do not need put a big TV on cabinet with a special heavy and expensive bracket.

These are pictures about the controller board , small boards to connect directly to CPU board and some test prototypes (real final version will be with 13" TFT on original Holo bracket or Tablet 10 inches with custom acrylic bracket under playfield), so all work with low level signals from CPU. The controller board capture status of matrix switches (8x8, so 64 switches) and up to 8x10 for outputs (64 outputs in Creature). Data may be transmitted wired by USB or CAN bus, or wireless by WIFI, Bluetooth or 2.4Ghz, all options may be read with Raspberry or Tablet. So only a simple USB cable to connect controller board to RPI/Tablet or no cables for wireless option (WIFI/Bluetooth/2.4Ghz). Also WIFI/Bluetooth may allow config and update firmware/config/videos wireless from cell phone.

My friend agreed about to do it with Raspberry Pi and 13" IPS TFT Screen (IPS high quality, wide angle vision). But may be do it yet with a Tablet, and a custom acrylic bracket under playfield.

About software to play videos, develop in C++ for RPI or Java for Tablet, simply need read status of matrix received and play videos according with a user config stored in SD card, so user may config when play any video according with status of switches, outputs or a combination of several input/outputs, config several videos to same trigger and play it randomly, config timers for triggers with blinker data in short time, etc...

Now I'm a little busy with some custom projects and a new Multicolor DMD for 128x16 pinballs (Hook and similar), but hope soon I will may finish this holo mod for my friend, then if somebody is interested I may prepare a full kit plug and play ready to work. About videos, easy to do with any video editor like Premiere, Pinnacle, Corel, and mix with 2D effects.

I want to make it clear that my product will be 100% original, ALL developed by me, hardware, software and videos, not a copy of another product. And for inform about development, tests, pictures, videos and any other information I will open a new post about it.

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#488 2 years ago

Looks good. When can I but one?

#489 2 years ago

Now that looks pretty good! I am more than happy to make some videos up for these.

#490 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Yea, there are a bunch of us kicking our own asses for not buying one.

Thank god I bought one before even securing my Creech because most I have ever seen come up for sale locally have a hologram that is blue or looks terrible.

#491 2 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Looks good. When can I but one?

I will receive this week the 13" IPS TFT, then I may check it with Raspberry Pi3, also I must test my controller board with WPC CPU. As soon as I have some free time I will finish it, then I will send a full kit to my friend and he will test in his Creature.

At any rate I do not know yet if develop with Raspberry or Tablet (Android), both have advantages and disadvantages. May be I do both.

#492 2 years ago

I'm requesting this thread be closed.

I don't care if someone wants to make their own version of the CFTBL MOD, but it should be advertised/promoted elsewhere. Also, the artwork you utilize for the videos features (if you're selling a knockoff) should be original, not the PMD files. I paid royalties for the artwork utilized in my MOD, so please create your own artwork. Thanks.

#493 2 years ago

Mike, maybe back on topic? When you paid for rights, how long of period was it good for?
Serious question and thank you in advance. Considering a project. Not this one!

#494 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Also, the artwork you utilize for the videos features (if you're selling a knockoff) should be original, not the PMD files.

Of course, hardware, software and videos, ALL 100% original, developed by me and very different to yours.
And for new development will open a new post.

#495 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

To all,
I've decided to pull the plug on resurrecting this MOD. With everything going on in my life, I just don't have enough time to start anymore pinball projects. As always, I'll continue to support any/all existing PMD customers, just shoot me an email.
Regards,
Mike

Quoted from PinballMikeD:

I'm requesting this thread be closed.
I don't care if someone wants to make their own version of the CFTBL MOD, but it should be advertised/promoted elsewhere. Also, the artwork you utilize for the videos features (if you're selling a knockoff) should be original, not the PMD files. I paid royalties for the artwork utilized in my MOD, so please create your own artwork. Thanks.

Since the OP has requested to close this thread as a result of this product being discontinued, I would encourage anyone else working on a mod of their own to start a new thread to share their progress. Thanks

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