(Topic ID: 82361)

PMD – Fathom Restoration

By PinballMikeD

10 years ago


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There are 573 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 12.
#51 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

Man that BG is amazeballs! Great color and art package...love it!

The colors are off compared to the original (too much purple in the CPR repro), but it sure beats a bubbled glass. I’m going to play with LEDs in the backbox, so hopefully I can make the artwork pop.

Quoted from SouthernBoy:

Awesome resto documentation! Fathom is on my fantasy list. I love the artwork. If I may be so nosey, what was the cost of the machine? How did you find it, word of mouth, internet search in the wee hours of the morning? I know you probably paid a small fortune for the PF and BG, but it will definitely be worth the cost when you are done. Great job!

I bought the machine as a part of a package deal, essentially it cost me $3k for the Fathom (but that included CPR plastics and some other parts). I actually fond the game here on PinSide. I traded some stuff for the new BG and paid a small fortune for the playfield. I’m sure when it’s all said and done my wallet will be lighter

#52 10 years ago

The LED from CT is a good starting point for the BG. A little too much green initially but after some tweaks it can be made to look great.

#53 10 years ago

Got most of the top side stripped down today. Nothing too exciting here, but figured I document the progress - or lack thereof

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My only advice to first timers is to take a ton of pictures as you dismantle your machines. Bottom line, you can never take enough pictures during a teardown. I always try to take multiple pictures from various angles; you never know what details might come in handy during the rebuild phase of the project. For example, in the picture below you can see that not every plastic finned post on the playfield is the same height (these are the type of details you need to document during your teardown in order to avoid needless rework). Anyway, you get the gist.

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#54 10 years ago

Ok, here's a before picture of the wood rails:

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I'm going to scrap these and fabricate new ones. The originals are usually cracked and damaged, so it only makes since to go with new ones. More on this later.

Now it's time to tackle this mess:

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That's all for today

#55 10 years ago

Finally got all the coil assemblies off the playfield, so moving right along.

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Here's a tip, might be overkill for some though.....

In addition to pictures, I like to sketch everything I remove. I do this more for the older machines as their schematics are more cumbersome to read. Also, this provides an easy to follow guide when reassembling the playfield (much easier than digging through a 1000 pictures). As I encounter hacks and incorrectly wired items I make notes in my sketch book.

Here are some sample sketches:

Screen Shot 2014-03-10 at 9.31.15 PM.pngScreen Shot 2014-03-10 at 9.31.15 PM.png
Screen Shot 2014-03-10 at 9.30.14 PM.pngScreen Shot 2014-03-10 at 9.30.14 PM.png

#56 10 years ago

I love creative fixes. Looks like MacGyver routed this machine

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I guess this means I need to fabricate a replacement part (it isn't perfect, but it will do the trick). You gotta love 5-40 bolts Damn you Bally and your goofy bolts......

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Before I ship stuff off to be re-plated (or powder coated), I like to take pictures of all the parts in groups. This will make it easier to get everything back together 6 weeks from now.

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#57 10 years ago

Finally got all of the coil assemblies taken apart. This stuff was super dirty

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I bag and tag all the parts (coils, screws, springs, plungers, etc.) and put them aside, separating them from the metal brackets.

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Here's a look at all the metal parts that will be reconditioned:

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I've decided to powder coat these parts, so the next step is to sand blasting everything (all 100+ pieces).

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All done and ready for powder application.

#58 10 years ago

I love the look of the 80's Bally coin doors, but they are a really pain in the butt to restore. For starters, there are a ton of parts on these old coin doors; they are really quite elaborate compared to WPC and other contemporary machines. Plus, they always seem to be beat to sh@t and they are usually rusted up pretty good.

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Here's a closer look with all the coin mechs removed:

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So, back to the sand blaster we go......

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FYI - I use silica sand in my sand blaster. It's not as abrasive as some other medias and helps leave a fairly smooth surface. Of course once you remove the rust (and the zinc plating) you'll need to re-plate your metal parts to prevent them from corroding/oxidizing in the future. For 80's Bally coin doors,I like to nickle plate the interior parts and powder coat the base mounting plate and coin collection tray.

More on this topic later.....

#59 10 years ago

Always look forward to these posts, especially the detail you include Mike. Hope to meet you, perhaps you'll be at Curly's and I can make it there? Hopefully some of the details will come in handy as I do my first pf-swap/restore on a Flash Gordon.

#60 10 years ago

This is awesome !!!! I'm really looking forward to seeing the progress , I love mine but I got cheep with the cabinet paint ... Don't do that ... Ha

#61 10 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Always look forward to these posts, especially the detail you include Mike. Hope to meet you, perhaps you'll be at Curly's and I can make it there? Hopefully some of the details will come in handy as I do my first pf-swap/restore on a Flash Gordon.

I'll be a Curly's, picking up a Voltan (doing a pf swap for a friend) - should be fun

Quoted from Dawson:

This is awesome !!!! I'm really looking forward to seeing the progress , I love mine but I got cheep with the cabinet paint ... Don't do that ... Ha

I remember your thread, thought your machine turned out quite nicely. I'm in no rush as this is my personal machine. I've got special plans for the cabinet that will make it a one off.

#62 10 years ago

It's time to start cleaning some parts. For starters, I like to clean the coils and all the miscellaneous stuff (screws, springs, plungers, etc.) associated with the coil assemblies.

One think I've found with these older Bally machines is that the coil wrappers leave a very stick residue after they are removed.

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So, I like to use my ultrasonic to clean these guys. Today (I'm always trying new things) I made a 50/50 mix of Simple Green and H2O for my ultrasonic cleaning solution. FYI, I'm just using a small cheap HF ultrasonic unit. One day I'll upgrade, but this guy actually does a pretty good job.

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I use the heat setting and let the coils run through a 5 min cycle. Then I brush them with a soft bristle tooth brush to remove an remaining dirt. You don't want to leave your coils in there too long, especially with the heating elements turned on, or you'll be buying new ones after they swell and the sleeves don't fit back through them.

Once the parts are cleaned, I wash them off with clean water and use compressed air to dry them (looks brand new right). Notice that I like to leave a small piece of insulated wire attached to the coil lugs; I do this because sometimes the silver band on the diode is actually removed by the ultrasonic cleaner. Trust me you don't want to wire coils backwards in an 80s Bally machine or you'll be replacing some transistors on the driver board

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Springs and other small parts get nice and clean as well. I'll tumble this stuff later as well.

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Here are all the sling shot parts - cleaned and ready to be reinstalled. Now I just repeat this process until all the coil assemblies are done.

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You may have to change your cleaning solution a few times depending on how dirty your coils are

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#63 10 years ago

Finally got the harness off of the playfield - hooray

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#64 10 years ago

Now it's time to scrub some harnesses

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Fixing up pinball machines would get pretty boring if you weren't open to new ideas right? So, I was thinking about cleaning harnesses the other day an thought, "I wounder what would happen if I put a wire harness in my tumbler?" After all, my tumbler was made to handle wet applications.

So, here's a fun little experiment:

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I just put the entire harness in my 5 gallon HF tumbler with a 50/50 mixture of Mean Green and hot tap H2O

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#65 10 years ago

Did you remove all of the connectors prior to this tumbler bath? I would be concerned about corrosion with the female side of the connection. Unless you will be replacing all the crimp contacts later, which is a good idea anyway.

#66 10 years ago

Fast forward 1 hour (dirty water is a good sign):

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Then I just dumped the harness in my driveway and hosed it down along with my tumbler bowl.

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Now it's time for a good ol' dose of Florida sunshine You can use compressed air to speed things up if you'd like; I often do that for the connectors. To be honest, I'm not sure it really matters. I've cleaned harnesses numerous ways and each method has yielded comparable results. What I liked specifically about this approach is that it wasn't very labor intensive (work smarter not harder right). Anyway, here's a closeup of the finished product:

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As you can see there isn't any dirt, so the tumbler did the trick.

#67 10 years ago

That harness looks nice Mike. I like this idea. Beats scrubbing for hours.

#68 10 years ago
Quoted from BrianBannon:

Did you remove all of the connectors prior to this tumbler bath? I would be concerned about corrosion with the female side of the connection. Unless you will be replacing all the crimp contacts later, which is a good idea anyway.

Considering the age of the machine I'll probably replace all of the connectors. FYI - I've cleaned harnesses in washing machines, dish washers, hot water/chemical baths, by hand with a toothbrush, you name it.... In my experience I've never had any corrosion issues with any of the methods list above. I do typically use compressed air to dry the harness connectors, but I've also just left them sitting in the sun for a few hours as well.

Quoted from Squeakman:

That harness looks nice Mike. I like this idea. Beats scrubbing for hours.

Yes, it definitely beats manual labor. Now I have more time to do all the yard work my wife has planned

#69 10 years ago

guess there is no reason not to clean the harness on my restore then. Only concern is knowing where all the damn wires go. I was thinking about getting one of those wire labelers as I can't count on my partial color blindness. Thoughts?

#70 10 years ago

Ive used this labeler before. Its made more for ethernet cables or coax, but i think a small bundle of wires would work too. The label part is small, but you write whatever u want then wrap the label around the wires. The clear part of the label wraps over your writing so it doesnt smear.

http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Label-Dispenser-75-1-2/dp/B000BSLQD6/ref=sr_1_14

#71 10 years ago

I think you washed the laquer off the coil wires, very bad, bet it's a dead short now.

#72 10 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

guess there is no reason not to clean the harness on my restore then. Only concern is knowing where all the damn wires go. I was thinking about getting one of those wire labelers as I can't count on my partial color blindness. Thoughts?

Being color blind would certainly make it more challenging. I guess I’d look into a labeling system.

Quoted from dangerwil:

I think you washed the laquer off the coil wires, very bad, bet it's a dead short now.

Nope, everything ohms out A-OK

I've done several machines this way and I've never stripped the coating off of the coil windings. I did forget to remove the sleeves once and the heat caused them to swell and stick inside the coils; luckily it was only 5 solenoids though

#73 10 years ago

Good Job on the restoration I find the older machines to be a lot more fun to restore than the new ones. Good luck on the rest of the restoration. I am definitely following this forum!

#74 10 years ago
Quoted from evanshane237:

Good Job on the restoration I find the older machines to be a lot more fun to restore than the new ones. Good luck on the rest of the restoration. I am definitely following this forum!

Thanks Evan. I’m enjoying restoring the older stuff at the moment, just a nice change of pace. I think each era of pinball offers its own challenges.

Likewise, I’m watching your FH resto

Keep up the good work. I love seeing more people restore machines, especially younger guys like you.

#75 10 years ago

Ok, so today lets take a look at the transformer and it's associated mounting plate.

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Not too bad, just a little dirty.

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I know I've documented this in other threads, but for the sake of being thorough I'll touch on it again. I always clean up the transformer when restoring a machine (in this case it's a pretty easy task). It really does make a big difference aesthetically and provides a nice finished look for the cabinet.

For starters, I use compressed air to remove any lose dust and dirt. Then I clean the wires with what ever degreaser I have on hand, been using Simple Green a lot on this project. I use a tooth brush to scrub wire ties, connectors, etc. Take your time and keep the cleaner off of everything but the wiring and it's associated connectors. You don't want to get the actual windings/housing wet. Then I use a clean water soaked rag to remove the degreaser from the wiring. Finally, I use compressed air to dry the wires and their connectors.

At this point the wires are clean and it's time to address the metal housing. I use a coarse Scotch-Brite pad to clean the actual transformer block. This roughs the surface up and enables new paint to adhere. Again, I use compressed air to remove any dirt. So, here's what the transform should look like at this point:

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Then I tape off all of the wires using 3M blue painters tape. Now I'm ready to paint the transformer.

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I use Rustoleum 2x Painters Touch - Gloss Black. Several thin coats and presto your transformer looks brand new

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#76 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Ok, so today lets take a look at the transformer and it's associated mounting plate.

Mike, how would you feel about taking a nice straight photo of that caution label next to the power supply board and sending it to Inkochnito to be reproduced? My game is missing that one. His email is:

[email protected]

Thanks.

#77 10 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Mike, how would you feel about taking a nice straight photo of that caution label next to the power supply board and sending it to Inkochnito to be reproduced? My game is missing that one. His email is:
[email protected]
Thanks.

Sorry, I already removed the label and pretty much destroyed it the process.

#78 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

I use Rustoleum 2x Painters Touch - Gloss Black. Several thin coats and presto your transformer looks brand new

Hmm i usualy sand the transformer top and sides (if rusty) after solvent cleaning and use cold gun blueing then shoot in auto clear just taping the wires. It saturates and strengthens the paper cover.

#79 10 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

Hmm i usualy sand the transformer top and sides (if rusty) after solvent cleaning and use cold gun blueing then shoot in auto clear just taping the wires. It saturates and strengthens the paper cover.

Your approach sounds more involved, but it’s probably better than mine

I’ve found Rustoleum’s products to be pretty good; it’s surprising what you can get out of a rattle can in terms of quality. The paint seems to hold up extremely well considering the operating temperature and it gives the transformer a “fresh” look without spending a ton of time or much $$$. I do like the sound of your approach though, certainly a better quality clear top coat.

Here’s a pic of the transformer I installed in a Centaur:

http://s437400854.onlinehome.us/?page_id=180

#80 10 years ago

Yeah Rustoleum laquer and enamels in the red and white cans is pretty nice stuff.
Honestly the auto clear method i use is pretty simple and fairly quick as well I just went with the auto clear in case of heat and its a solid finish but your transformers do look great
Im glad youre doing these restoration threads esp with machines Im about to do or are doing once I get done with customer machines ill prolly start on my fathom and or vector as well.
Cant wait to start working on my machines again hyperball 010 (3).JPGhyperball 010 (3).JPGhyperball 009 (3).JPGhyperball 009 (3).JPG
Heres a set of transformers i did for my hyperball in auto clear they were pretty rusty before.

#81 10 years ago
Quoted from Hellfire:

Yeah Rustoleum laquer and enamels in the red and white cans is pretty nice stuff.Honestly the auto clear method i use is pretty simple and fairly quick as well I just went with the auto clear in case of heat and its a solid finish but your Transformers do look great Im glad youre doing these restoration threads esp with machines Im about to do or are doing once I get done with customer machines ill prolly start on my fathom and or vector as well.Cant wait to start working on my machines again :)Heres a set of Transformers i did for my hyperball in auto clear they were pretty rusty before.

hyperball 009 (3).JPG 298 KB
hyperball 010 (3).JPG 305 KB

Those guys do look pretty nice, might have to give that a try the next time around

#82 10 years ago

Cleaning printed circuit boards...

Yes, I know... It's everybody's favorite topic to discuss around the diner table with the wife and kids Seriously, I know this has been cover numerous times before, but just trying to be thorough and document everything pertaining to this particular project.

Let's look at the power module board for this demonstration:

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I spray my boards down with Krud Kutter and use a soft bristle tooth brush to scrub them clean.

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Then I rinse the boards off with hot water and dry them using compressed air.

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In general, I don't really worry about the components on the boards getting wet (except for the capacitors). However, due to the age of this machine I've decided to go ahead and replace all of the caps on both the Squawk & Talk and Solenoid Driver boards, so no worries this time around.

This boards is a little toasty, but functional. I'll replace the fuses, re-flow the solder on all of the connectors, and test each component to ensure they are within spec.

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#83 10 years ago

Got the cabinet completely stripped down today:

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The cabinet is in pretty rough shape (looks much worse in person). There's some significant water damage to the Masonite floor board near the coin door; the floor panel is actually detaching from the face of the cabinet here. Bottom line, this cabinet would actually cost more to repair than it would to just build a new one, so that's what we'll do

#84 10 years ago

Time to build a new cabinet and backbox. I dropped my beater off with my buddy Lee, so should have a new cab and BB in about 2 weeks.

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#85 10 years ago

Nice to have a friend with a cabinet shop.

On the issue of power supply boards. While testing might save a few bucks, I've decided to just rebuild the power supply on my Flash Gordon. It actually looks pretty good, stock and from the top doesn't appeared to have had hack work done or major problems. Given the condition of the playfield, it's pretty surprising. That said, it also means that when I'm done rebuilding the rectifier/supply board, it should look about like new - new connectors, new fuse holders, the works. At about $40 in parts to replace everything, including the connectors, I think it is worth it. Even without new connectors, it's only about $20 in parts and I'll know everything will be new. Considering how long many of these worked being on full days for years, it should last a lifetime in home use.

#86 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Bottom line, this cabinet would actually cost more to repair than it would to just build a new one, so that's what we'll do

Mike, that's funny; when I was looking at the pictures, I thought the exact same thing - and then I read your last line.

#87 10 years ago

Why not restore the original cabinet, it look very decent.

#88 10 years ago
Quoted from HPR:

Why not restore the original cabinet, it look very decent.

A brand new, pre-primed cab is $200.

There is way more than $400 worth of time to fix up that old lead painted, waterlogged cab.

If you are going to repaint a cab anyway, might as well start out with a perfect, solid, no fiberboard specimen.

#89 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A brand new, pre-primed cab is $200.
There is way more than $400 worth of time to fix up that old lead painted, waterlogged cab.
If you are going to repaint a cab anyway, might as well start out with a perfect, solid, no fiberboard specimen.

I wish it were only $200 for a new cabinet. I need your connections

I agree with you though, don't get why some guys pay a premium to repair/restore trashed cabinets. With all the money guys dump (myself included) into restorations why not start with a pristine cabinet and backbox?

#90 10 years ago

Yeah vid, point the way to a 200 or 300 dollar cab, I'm game.

#91 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

I wish it were only $200 for a new cabinet. I need your connections

The guys at WTI cut them for me on their CNC routers, I still have to glue them together myself.

They are not set up for internet sales, but we have talked in passing about them supplying PL or some other company.

Packaging would have to be figured out so the panels could survive UPS shipping. Probably a packaging engineering company would have to look a the requirements and then design a box/foam combo that could be dropped on it's edge without damage.

I will say that a brand new cab smells like a whiff of heaven....

#92 10 years ago
Quoted from shimoda:

Yeah vid, point the way to a 200 or 300 dollar cab, I'M Game.

I was sending people to Xtreme for $250 cabs, but they are currently taking care of some personal business:

http://www.xtremepinball.com/index.php?main_page=down_for_maintenance&zenid=udtpo7h6ae2hmvho75u6p4bg10

#93 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I was sending people to Xtreme for $250 cabs, but they are currently taking care of some personal business:
http://www.xtremepinball.com/index.php?main_page=down_for_maintenance&zenid=udtpo7h6ae2hmvho75u6p4bg10

Didn't know that. Was thinking about seeing if they could make a flat pack Bally SS cab. Might just have to figure out how to build one myself. Actually need to build a Gottlieb Sys 1 standard size cab for a Solar Ride project but back to the Fathom -->

#94 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Ok, so today lets take a look at the transformer and it's associated mounting plate.

Take your time and keep the cleaner off of everything but the wiring and it's associated connectors. You don't want to get the actual windings/housing wet.

I have soaked transformers while cleaning them with no worries. I just throw them in the oven at a low temperature to dry them out. I also will dry out wire harnesses and boards this way. I work for a large motor repair shop and we "bake out" stators after they have been pressure washed at 300 F every day. I usually stay around 185 F (~85 C) just to be safe.

FYI. Most magnet wire is good to 200C and most lamination are good to at least 350C (main components for the transformer).

#95 10 years ago
Quoted from Mamushka:

I have soaked Transformers while cleaning them with no worries. I just throw them in the oven at a low temperature to dry them out. I also will dry out wire harnesses and boards this way. I work for a large motor repair shop and we "bake out" stators after they have been pressure washed at 300 F every day. I usually stay around 185 F (~85 C) just to be safe.
FYI. Most magnet wire is good to 200C and most lamination are good to at least 350C (main components for the transformer).

Hey, you learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing. It makes since, same concept as the solenoid coils on the playfield - a magnet is a magnet right.

However, I don't think my wife will be letting me cook pinball parts in her oven

#96 10 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Hey, you learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing. It makes since, same concept as the solenoid coils on the playfield - a magnet is a magnet right.
However, I don't think my wife will be letting me cook pinball parts in her oven

Just do it when she is not home

Seriously, the parts are clean and they don't smoke, stink or melt in the oven.

#97 10 years ago

Got my first batch of powdered parts back today. I decided to go with a 2 stage metallic blue (w/ clear top coat) for all the coil and drop target assemblies.

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Here's a close up; it's had to see the pearl in the photos:

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I never said I was a purest

#98 10 years ago

Even though it won't be seen except by the tech mostly, if you are going to have them coated, why not blue, pretty awesome. Seems like you should also make a new harness out of sea-grade mini-chainmail braided-insulated wire. Then you can take it to a car show, pop the hood and shoe people something really interesting that drives your machine. Excited to see this come together. Would love to see this done and brought to the SFGE in June (Atlanta) so as to see your work firsthand.

-2
#99 10 years ago

so as to see your work firsthand.

Not that this guy don't have skills , but as far as I can tell .. Most of this is not his work , besides the puzzle of removing ,cleaning , and re- assembling ...... I'm not trying to be a dick-head here , I just listened to a guy tell me how he built his custom house on the coast , when really he had paid to have it build, he did sod the yard , but continues to puff up and tell people he built his own home ...

I think the project is awesome ,and look forward to new post on this thread
the money you can put into a restoration is mind blowing ...and. Here I am cutting open a tube of polish to get the last expensive drop out.. Ahh the pity of a first world country

Look forward to seeing more post on the restore ..
Not trying to knock anyone's work here

Just saying

#100 10 years ago

Are the threads filled with the powder coat and will it crack when installing switches on the bank targets ?

Looks so sic

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