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(Topic ID: 82361)

PMD – Fathom Restoration


By PinballMikeD

6 years ago



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  • 107 Pinsiders participating
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There are 569 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 12.
#451 4 years ago

Hey Guys... Let me know when you get this figured out. I might want some of these shim rings. I have 2 EBD's and a Fathom which all 3 PF's are CPR so may need them. Keep me updated!

#452 4 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

I used your dimensions neat with no variances as Shapeways has a +-0.15-0.20mm, just let me know if you want me to adjust. If you have to sand the blue ones it may expose white as the colours are dyed.
Is this a standard item or something needed for all fathoms, never seen this type of pop bracket.

No, this is just me being over the top and wanting to protect the clear coating where the bumper bases transition at the playfield. I'll probably have to sand the holes out in order to accommodate the rings, but I need to sand out the extra clear anyway.

#453 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballPimp:

Hey Guys... Let me know when you get this figured out. I might want some of these shim rings. I have 2 EBD's and a Fathom which all 3 PF's are CPR so may need them. Keep me updated!

I'll let you know how they work.

#454 4 years ago

Here's a look at the custom metal prototype bumper protectors:

bumper_rings_(resized).JPG

These were fabricated using a high end lathe to turn down a piece of 304 stainless steel pipe. Pretty awesome!

bumper_ring_installed_(resized).jpg

Now I just need to buff them to a chrome like finish and they'll be ready to install

I'll provide a review for Swinks's parts once I get them from Shapeways - they should be awesome as well

#455 4 years ago

As previously mentioned, the routed pop bumper area on my Fathom playfield is incorrect. CPR removed too much of the wood, making the white plastic bumper bases sit higher than they should on the top side of the playfield. I ran into this issue last year when restoring a Centaur, so no surprises. No worries, easy fix

Here are some rubber shims I made to correct the issue:

Bumper_Shims_(resized).JPG

These are nice because they have some give, so you can adjust the bumper depth by tightening and loosening the 7 mounting screws.

Here are some pics of the bumpers installed:

Pop_Bumpers_(resized).JPG
Bumper_Rings_(resized).JPG

Now I just need to install the caps and my comet LEDs and the bumpers will be complete

I'm very pleased with how the bumper rings turned out; they certainly added some extra work, but they look great. They even cover up the registration issues with the artwork on the playfield.

Pop_LEDs_(resized).JPG

#456 4 years ago

the SS rings look great, will the ball touch the rings at all, just curious in relation to the shapeways ones.

#457 4 years ago

They are slightly thicker than a Cliffy protector. I don't envision they'll be a problem though - time will tell. I like snappy bumpers, so the ball will be all over the place up there.

I'm interested to see the shapeways rings and compare. I'll let you know if I see any issues; at least the plastic can be sanded down.

#458 4 years ago

Mike, this is beyond a level of work. What are the chances of getting a cabinet built with that artwork?

Time to win the lottery because these treatments, this one in particular, is just something to behold.

#459 4 years ago

My cabinet guy builds replicas using the original cabinet for reference, so each one is custom made. I probably put 20 hours into the cabinet once I receive it - sanding, priming, filling, etc. Once the cabinet is ready, it's time for Mac's airbrush work. Each paint job is 100% custom. FYI - the paint job alone cost almost as much as the base machine. I only went to this extreme because it's my own machine. However, I have to admit it's hard to look at decals after looking at this machine for a few hours.

#460 4 years ago

Lookin' great!
(blue drops look a little tall in the pocket up there in the back.)
-mof

#461 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Lookin' great!
(blue drops look a little tall in the pocket up there in the back.)
-mof

Details details details

#462 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Details details details

Getting the drops totally level usually takes some improvisation. Usually I find they are too low (and the ball gets caught).

#463 4 years ago

Hooray - the playfield is in the cabinet

Fathom_(resized).JPG

Here's a better look at how the apron looks on the the actual reproduction playfield:

Apron_(resized).JPG

Some minor touch ups here and there, a little tweaking, plug some wires in, put the plastics on and this baby is finally done - just in time to pack her up and put her in storage for the move.

#464 4 years ago

I could store it for you.

#465 4 years ago

are you even ever gonna play the thing or just stare at it ?
almost too beautiful.

#466 4 years ago

I plan on making the playfield look like the surface of the moon - dimple city baby

#467 4 years ago

I've worn my 6" buffing wheel out....

Buy_a_new_buffing_you_wheel_already_(resized).JPG

But these acorn nuts are so shiny

IMO - This is one of the best MODs you can do to a game from this era. It's cheap and it sure beats the white plastic post covers.

Acorn_Nut_(resized).JPG

#468 4 years ago

PinballMikeD - everything looks awesome, wow an inspiration to guys like me just getting into this. A question about the wiring cleanup - I can see if you are tightening/straightening and re-ziptieing that you can cut a quarter inch off a wire to get rid of an unwanted bulge/loop. Did you also replace wires with longer ones when you wanted to route it a little longer?

#469 4 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

PinballMikeD - everything looks awesome, wow an inspiration to guys like me just getting into this. A question about the wiring cleanup - I can see if you are tightening/straightening and re-ziptieing that you can trip a quarter inch off a wire to get rid of an unwanted bulge/loop did you also replace wires with longer ones when you wanted to route it a little longer?

Usually the wires are too long and need to be trimmed. However, I like to keep the wires longer than they need to be and use wire ties to clean the harness up. I do this just in case I have to replacing a part in the future; this way I have enough wire for future repairs if needed. Clear as mud?

#470 4 years ago

Perfection. This satisfies my OCD to no extent!

#471 4 years ago

But these acorn nuts are so shiny
IMO - This is one of the best MODs you can do to a game from this era. It's cheap and it sure beats the white plastic post covers.

Absolutely beautiful game Mike! Where can I find these acorn nuts? I am finishing up a Centaur and I think they would look great!

#472 4 years ago

Not real sure what happened in my previous post Mike but it was quoting what you said about the the acorn nut a few post down. I was just wondering where to find some.

#473 4 years ago

Any good hardware store has them. I got mine at the Home Depot.

#474 4 years ago

They're probably these:

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4408-01138-00

An astounding 25 cents a pop!

#476 4 years ago

Less than 7 cents each in boxes of 100 from bolt depot

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2607

#477 4 years ago
Quoted from mot:

They're probably these:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4408-01138-00
An astounding 25 cents a pop!

Never ever buy nuts, screws, bolts, etc. from Marco (unless you absolutely have to). Here's a good price comparison:

Fastenal sells 6-32 nickle plated acorn nuts for roughly 10 cents, better than paying $0.25 per nut right

Screen_Shot_2016-01-16_at_8.00.25_AM_(resized).png

https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/1137703?term=acorn+nuts&pageno=2&r=~|categoryl1:%22600000%20Fasteners%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22600072%20Nuts%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22602448%20Acorn%20Nuts%22|~

I buy 99% of my hardware items from Fastenal, Grainger, and a mom & pop bolt store down the street from where I work. I buy in bulk and just stock pile stuff; you'll used it eventually.

Spare_Parts_(resized).png

Quoted from johnnypinball:

I am finishing up a Centaur and I think they would look great!

You'll be happy with them

Centaur_(resized).png

#478 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Fastenal sells 6-32 nickle plated acorn nuts for roughly a penny a piece, slightly better than paying $0.25 per nut right
Screen_Shot_2016-01-16_at_8.00.25_AM_(resized).png

$0.1151 is 11.51 cents, not a penny. A little less than half the price of Marco.

#479 4 years ago

Bolt Depot is usually cheaper than Fastenal, here for 7 cents (.0667 cents to be exact ) :

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2606

-

Although they look great, acorn nuts are more dangerous than rubber barrel nuts to plastics.

Obviously Centaur will always have reproduction plastics available, but on rare plastics, I'd go with rubber barrel nuts for anywhere in the direct line of fire of the flippers.

Here is both Lexan Washer and Rubber Barrel for the totally paranoid (this game is deployed at a strip bar):

3cba75f0e9555198a70e0b5a90dbb658ef66b16e_(resized).jpg

#480 4 years ago

And before anyone asks, here is how to keep Lexan washer from rubbing off art:

4bb8c02d0242adf32340617bf9d1825fad1acb6e_(resized).jpg

#481 4 years ago
Quoted from neurokinetik:

$0.1151 is 11.51 cents, not a penny. A little less than half the price of Marco.

Of yeah $ = dollars, oops. It's still half the price and you don't have to pay shipping either

Just looked at my receipt and a bag of 100 nuts cost me a little over $7 with tax, so not too bad. A penny would have been better though.

#482 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Bolt Depot is usually cheaper than Fastenal, here for 7 cents (.0667 cents to be exact ) :
https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2606
-
Although they look great, acorn nuts are more dangerous than rubber barrel nuts to plastics.
Obviously Centaur will always have reproduction plastics available, but on rare plastics, I'd go with rubber barrel nuts for anywhere in the direct line of fire of the flippers.
Here is both Lexan Washer and Rubber Barrel for the totally paranoid (this game is deployed at a strip bar):

3cba75f0e9555198a70e0b5a90dbb658ef66b16e_(resized).jpg

No doubt this is a nice approach, utilitarian for sure.

#483 4 years ago

Thanks for the info guys. I'll be picking up a batch of them.

#484 4 years ago

very nice looking games over there. Both the centaur and playboy look like new

#485 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Bolt Depot is usually cheaper than Fastenal, here for 7 cents (.0667 cents to be exact ) :
https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=2606
-
Although they look great, acorn nuts are more dangerous than rubber barrel nuts to plastics.
Obviously Centaur will always have reproduction plastics available, but on rare plastics, I'd go with rubber barrel nuts for anywhere in the direct line of fire of the flippers.
Here is both Lexan Washer and Rubber Barrel for the totally paranoid (this game is deployed at a strip bar):

3cba75f0e9555198a70e0b5a90dbb658ef66b16e_(resized).jpg

Vid when you say the acorn nuts are more dangerous to plastics, is this a matter of the metal rubbing onto the plastic where they are tightened down? I wonder if that could be improved by adding a thin spacer of more benign material underneath the nut? Like maybe these nylon washers:

ebay.com link » 100pcs M4 Flat Nylon Plastic Spacer Flat Washers Insulation Gasket Ring White

I think it might be possible to get similar washers made from felt.

Also, I am presuming the idea of the lexan washers in your pic is to protrude past the edge of the plastic, allowing a place for the ball to smash into instead of the edge of the plastic which might crack it. If that is the case, why not put those same washers on top of the other red posts in between? It looks like those are still exposed edges for the ball to hit. I think those "underneath" posts have a screw going in from the top. It may be that there isn't room for a washer on those, I can't tell from the pic.

#486 4 years ago

he's probably referring to acorn nuts holding the plastic down to well. With the rubber toppers, if a ball hits the plastic....it will just pop off the rubber nipples. With acorns or lock nuts, it doesn't go anywhere and can crack or break the plastic.

#487 4 years ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

Also, I am presuming the idea of the lexan washers in your pic is to protrude past the edge of the plastic, allowing a place for the ball to smash into instead of the edge of the plastic which might crack it.

Yep, you put them on wherever the plastics commonly break.

Quoted from xsvtoys:

why not put those same washers on top of the other red posts in between?

Usually the plastics only break where the posts rigidly hold the plastic in place.

The washers also raise the plastics up slightly, so the normal Philips screw head posts don't scratch the the paint from the underside of the plastics.

#488 4 years ago

the only thing that I do not like about the rubber barrel shaped nuts is that when the rubber starts to dry out, they don't hold onto the post screw very well and pop off a lot more

#489 4 years ago

Having a game that looks like a million bucks doesn't mean much if it doesn't operate correctly or plays like crap. It's easy to get fixated on the aesthetics, but at the end of the day the most important part of any pinball restoration is getting the machine dialed in and operating as designed. I try to tweak as much as I can (adjusting switches, etc.) prior to putting the playfield back into the cabinet, but it's inevitable that somethings will need to be adjusted once everything has been put back together.

For starters (with Bally's of this era), I always run the five "Self Tests" when booting the machine up for the first time. Theses are the diagnostic tests listed in the back box here:

Self_Test_(resized).JPG

For those that don't know, these tests are initiated using the red push button on the coin door - yes, captain obvious is here

Self_Test_Start_(resized).JPG

I always start with the easy stuff first, 1x = Lamp Test and 2x = Display Test. Because I replaced all of the light sockets with new ones when restoring the game and I meticulously verified my ground braid wiring prior to populating the playfield, I felt confident the "Lamp Test" would show no issues Likewise, because I replaced all of the displays with new Pinscore LED displays I didn't anticipate any issues here either. However, I did find one display wasn't working, so I powered down the game and re-seated the connector and that quickly fixed the issue. Always start with the easy stuff right

For folks not familiar with the Alltek lamp driver board, this guy is needed if you want to replace your incandescent bulbs with LEDs. You'll need one to replace the auxiliary lamp board mounted on the back box light panel as well. To eliminate LED flickering you'll need to follow the installation instructions and connect the provided white/purple wire as shown below:

LED_Flicker_Wire1_(resized).JPG

LED_Flicker_wire2_(resized).JPG

Note: The Alltek board's wire should be attached to a controlled lamp (NOT A GI LAMP). Just saying.....

Here's a look at the game in "Lamp Test":

Lamp_Test_(resized).JPG

FYI - I used 2x non-frosted Comet LEDs, color matching the blue and green inserts. I used warm white for the rest of the inserts, but I'll probably go back and install red LEDs for the red inserts.

More later, have to take my daughter out for a museum adventure this afternoon

#490 4 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

the only thing that I do not like about the rubber barrel shaped nuts is that when the rubber starts to dry out, they don't hold onto the post screw very well and pop off a lot more

At 100 for $15, just replace any over 5 years old.

#491 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

st_(resized).JPG

For those that don't know, these tests are initiated using the red push button on the coin door

Pure pinball porn with that switch bracket all polished up....

#492 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Pure pinball porn with that switch bracket all polished up....

I was lazy, had the coin door guts chrome plated. Now I can't touch anything without leaving fingers prints everywhere

#493 4 years ago

The next diagnostic test I run is typically the switch test. In this test the pinball machine is looking for any closed switches, so you'll need to remove the pinballs in order to properly run the test. With the ball through empty every switch should now be open, so now any switch numbers displayed on the score display modules are switches you'll need to adjust.

In my case everything passed without any issues. So far so good

However, later during game play I noticed that when either the left for right flipper coil would actuate the game would register points and progress towards the "Blue Bonus." I noticed the sound effect being triggered was the same as the one generated by the left inlane switch. So, I adjusted the leafs, increasing the gap between them, for the left inlane switch and the problem went away. The vibration from the flipper coils was causing the switch to make. FYI - this is a trouble shooting tip I picked up from Dangerwil.

Now it's time to verify the Squawk & Talk board is working. To avoid electrical issues resulting from failed PCB traces and/or components, I elected to replace all of my PCBs with new Alltek boards - all except the S&T board, which isn't being reproduced yet.

New_Boards_(resized).JPG

There are dozens of good threads on RGP for S&T refurbishing tips, so I won't delve too deep here. Luckily my board was in pretty good shape and it was working when I started the restoration, so I only replaced the capacitors and re-flowed the solder at each header pin. The caps might have lasted for years, but for less than $20 I decided to circumvent a future issue while the game was already taken apart.

Capacitor_Kit_(resized).png

So, far I was having an easy startup

#494 4 years ago

Now it's time to verify all the coils are working correctly.

As previously documented, I always verify each coil's resistance (ohm value) prior to reusing it. Here's a great table you can use for reference:

http://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html

So, I knew every coil should be good prior to starting the 3x "Solenoid Test." Everything was going well until the Top Drop Target Reset solenoid (coil #9) failed to fire. This actually blew the playfield's 1A S.B. fuse, so I knew I had a wiring issue somewhere. This is why I always recommend documenting the wiring prior to disassembling the playfield.

A picture is worth a 1,000 words:

Top_Drop_Target_Reset_Coil_(resized).JPG

After verifying the wiring was indeed correct and that I had +43VDC at the coil, I decided to take a look at the schematics:

Wiring_Diagram_(resized).JPG

Here we can see that the Top Drop Target Reset solenoid is controlled via the Solenoid Expander Relay and is wired back to A3J2 pin 4 via an orange/green wire. For shits and giggles, I confirmed the Solenoid Expander Lite was working, so that wasn't the issue. At this point I decided to bring over the resident Jacksonville Bally expert, Dangerwil. We noticed the 1st Green Inline Drop Target shared the orange/green home run to A3J2, so we de-soldered the Top Drop Target Reset solenoid, replaced the playfield fuse, and then ran the "Solenoid Test." Every coil (minus the one we de-soldered of course) worked as designed; this told us the problem was the Top Drop Target Reset solenoid itself. After removing the solenoid and de-soldering the leads, we found a faulty diode. It literally fell apart when we removed it.

Bad_Diode_(resized).JPG

Go figure.... I took the initiative to replace all of the switch diodes with new ones, but assumed the coil diodes would be fine. Too funny, it's crazy how a simple diode can spank one's ass. Anyway, the game is now operating 100% without any electrical issues. Now I just need to make some mechanical tweaks and she'll be ready for dimples

#496 4 years ago

god damn that coin door looks great. And it's true. I see so many people have these nice looking games, and they play like complete ass, because they don't take the time to dial them in.

Dialing in game, means making sure all the mechs are working good. Flippers are aligned correctly and have good power. Metal rails are moved and adjusted to give you smooth flowing loops and curves. Posts and starposts are moved and adjusted so the ball freely rolls between lanes and doesn't get hung up. Ramps smoothed out so there arn't any jumps...shit like that. at least 67% of the people on here, have no clue how to do that.

#497 4 years ago

"I elected to replace all of my PCBs with new Alltek boards - all except the S&T board, which isn't being reproduced yet."

Yes they are!!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mypinballs-squawk-talk-sound-board-gordons-alive

I have a couple in my machines.

#498 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBellMan:

"I elected to replace all of my PCBs with new Alltek boards - all except the S&T board, which isn't being reproduced yet."
Yes they are!!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mypinballs-squawk-talk-sound-board-gordons-alive
I have a couple in my machines.

Nice, I didn't realize someone was making these now. Oh well, more money down the Fathom hole

So, what's the verdict? Are you happy with the investment?

#499 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballMikeD:

Nice, I didn't realize someone was making these now. Oh well, more money down the Fathom hole
So, what's the verdict? Are you happy with the investment?

I absolutely love them. He also makes an echo board for it. You can get the Centaur echo on Fathom!

#500 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBellMan:

I absolutely love them. He also makes an echo board for it. You can get the Centaur echo on Fathom!

Thanks Rob Yes, i've been making replacement S&T boards for awhile now and getting great comments back from people.

stsound-board_assembled3_(resized).jpg
The boards themselves have many improvements and updates over the originals and people often tell me they sound better than the stock ones even with new caps etc. The echo board is a daughter board plug onto J2 and works as Rob says with any rom set, so you can experience effects for any game if using my boards.

The thread discussion on them is linked above. Feel free to drop me a private message if you want to get in on the builds, or contact me via my website over at http://mypinballs.co.uk

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There are 569 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 12.

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