(Topic ID: 207397)

PLS HELP: Bally KISS transformer issue


By E_N_3

1 year ago



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  • 17 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Validpowerdetect
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#1 1 year ago

I started working on a Bally KISS that a picked up a while back.

I imagine the issue was caused by me, as it would seem too coincidental that it would happen now if this wasn’t me. Here’s what I was doing.

I had everything working, and was replacing some dead bulbs. I was trying to get to a screw in a plastic in the back of the play field area, so I moved the playiekd out about 2 inches. I heard a buzzing and smelled a burnt smell, so I cut the game’s power off immediately. I then went searching for what may have burned.

I discovered there are a couple of fried wires coming off the transformer, which lead to power supply board.

I was going to replace the power supply board and re-pin the harnesses any ways, but what should I do about the transformer now?

Did my moving the play field cause that to burn up? Is it something I can repair, or do I need to get a new one? Is this a part that is too dangerous to keep in the game if it had this issue? Is the transformer something that is best to send out to an expert for repair?

I have never dealt with any power supply stuff before, so I’m at a real loss at what to do.

As always, it’s one step forward and three steps backwards.

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#2 1 year ago

Looks like the solenoid power got shorted somewhere.
I have to ask, are those 20 amp fuses in F4 and F6 ?

#3 1 year ago

Easy fix, but time consuming. Run new wire, replace corroded fuse holder ( causes high resistance), re-pin male and female pins.
See Vids guide for bulletproofing Bally power supplies on this forum for tips on rebuilding it.

Oh yeah, check those fuses!

#4 1 year ago

Definitely check the fuses. Bally transformers rarely fail. With the burnt wiring the fuse was at fault. Wire needs replaced and for the price of new rectifier boards, $60, get one. Replace all the .156 connector pin connectors and terminals as well.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Looks like the solenoid power got shorted somewhere.
I have to ask, are those 20 amp fuses in F4 and F6 ?

TBH, i didn’t check the fuse amps yet. It is a game I picked up a little while back, and it was unknown if it had issues, or was working. I had simply set the game up, connected all the wires/boards, and I turned it on to see what would come on at this point. I hadn’t gotten too far in to it when I made this goof.

I’m going to the redoing the wiring in the transformer, and I already had the new rectifier board, pins, and harnesses. Unfortunately, I wish I would have gotten the rectifier in before today, as maybe it would have prevented this extent of damage...especially if there are wrong amp fuses in (I will check that tomorrow for curiosity sake).

Thanks for the reply and input!
—Ed

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Validpowerdetect:

Easy fix, but time consuming. Run new wire, replace corroded fuse holder ( causes high resistance), re-pin male and female pins.
See Vids guide for bulletproofing Bally power supplies on this forum for tips on rebuilding it.
Oh yeah, check those fuses!

“Easy fix, but time consuming” is a-okay in my book...lol.
Thanks for the reply and input!

I already have the rectifier board, pins, and harnesses, as they were going to be my next item to do—too bad I didn’t get them in sooner, as maybe this wouldn’t have been as bad.
I ordered a set of wires for the transformer from a Pinsider who sells them as sets, which includes the correct colors and sizes, etc. for under $10 deleieved, and with instal instructions, I figured it would make things easier all around.

While I hadn’t originally planned on rewiring the transformer to the rectifier board, I guess doing it when I am going to put a new rectifier is a good time to do it.

And yes, I will check the old fuses that were on the board, tomorrow, out of curiosity. I bought the game in unknown working order, so I was still early in checking stuff when I made this rookie mistake moving the PF with power on, thus shorting it out.

I will check out the bullet proofing the power supply.,,thanks!

Thanks again, I will post updates Incase anyone is interested in how it turned out...lol.

Thanks again,
—Ed

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

Definitely check the fuses. Bally transformers rarely fail. With the burnt wiring the fuse was at fault. Wire needs replaced and for the price of new rectifier boards, $60, get one. Replace all the .156 connector pin connectors and terminals as well.

All good advice, thank you! I will be rewiring the transformer ASAP. I already had a new rectifier board aaiting to go in, and I had planned to do the pins/harness work when I put the new rectifier in... too bad I hadn’t gotten them in yet, as maybe this could have been prevented.

I will check the fuses for curiosity sake tomorrow. I had barely gotten in to much when I made this screw up.

My biggest concern was if I would need to source a new transformer, but that doesn’t seem to be the case yet.

Thanks again for the reply and info!
—Ed

#8 1 year ago

First thing to do is disconnect any burnt/melted out wires at each end and find out where the solenoid power short originated from. Did any wires running to/at the playfield suffer any heat stress (melt)?

Unfortunately you still don't know if the transformer winding for solenoid power suffered any damage from the excessive current short - some of the internal winding insulation may have melted and caused a minor/major internal short. You might have been luck to power it off before any damage was caused.
Isolate everything off the transformer outputs and verify the output voltages are still within spec. Set your multimeter to AC voltage when doing this - voltages are listed in the schematics on the rectifier board page and the transformer lugs are numbered accordingly. i.e. solenoid voltage is at transformer lugs 2 and 6 and should measure 49VAC across the two lugs. Note, you are measuring AC across lugs, not to ground.

Good luck!

#9 1 year ago

If things don't work out send me a PM. Kiss is an oddball and uses a 122-125 transformer and they can be very hard to find. The only other Bally pins that used it were Future Spa and Space Invaders. Kiss also uses the AS2518-49 rectifier board.

1 week later
#10 1 year ago

Okay, one step forward and five steps back. I redid all of the wires from the transformer going to the rectifier board. I also replaced the rectifier board. Game was starting to come back to life, so I figured I should redo the pins in the harnesses, especially those on the rectifier board.

Here is where I screw up so much that I don't even have words do describe my stupidity.

I got new displays, which required me to build them. I finished one, and thought, hey, I should try it out. I put it in the way I think it should go in, and the harness is having such a hard time going on, that I think it is about to break. I then look at it and see (HERE IT COME.... be ready) that if I flip the harness, it will fit. And yes, it fit so perfect this way that I think I must have messed up something in my build, and this must be right. I turn the game on .... displays dead. I replace 2 dead fuses (one on the rectifier and one on the driver board--granted, the driver board may have been from the original issue).

So, here I am, no displays, no game booting....and feeling really really dumb. I know we all have to learn...I just get really frustrated when I realize how dumb of mistakes I am making in some of my learning lessons.

any advice on what I should do next? (and I fully expect the "what you should do next is sell all your pinball machines")

#11 1 year ago

I've personally blown up a transformer on a much more expensive machine by putting the connector off one pin. It happens. Measure what voltages you're getting on the various test points, and that'll tell you what, if anything, you broke.

#12 1 year ago

So it was the display connector that went on the wrong way around?
Which fuses blew?
Does the LED on the MPU board come on at all during powerup?

Have you since measured voltages on the rectifier board and the solenoid driver board?

#13 1 year ago

Tip for all rookies out there. If a connector has no key preventing you from putting it in backwards make sure there is no wire present on the connection that would come down on the key. If you see a wire where the key pin would be you probably have the connector on wrong.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Kiss is an oddball and uses a 122-125

Most Kiss machines I have ever known use a 122-131 Transformer with the AS2518-49 rectifier board I could be wrong but that's what I have seen in most Kiss machines.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from mappy_mouse:

Most Kiss machines I have ever known use a 122-131 Transformer with the AS2518-49 rectifier board I could be wrong but that's what I have seen in most Kiss machines.

Yeah you're right it does use the 122-131. I have one right here with a brand-new aftermarket rectifier board on it. I got the numbers mixed up. Good catch!

They are very HTF though and were only used in Kiss, Future Spa, and Space Invaders.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from CadillacMusic:

I've personally blown up a transformer on a much more expensive machine by putting the connector off one pin. It happens. Measure what voltages you're getting on the various test points, and that'll tell you what, if anything, you broke.

Did the same thing on my Dr. Dude - right after a complete shop and major component work. Enough smoke that I thought the neighbors would call the FD!
Learned to be super careful when re-pinning a transformer! We all make mistakes.

#17 1 year ago

Treat it as a new buy, and start from scratch.
Unplug MPU, SDB so you won't blow them up.
Check a fuses are correct amperage and intact.
Use the MANUAL/SCHEMATICS to wire check each plug on the rectifier board as correct.
Only plug in Rect J2. Check TPs for proper voltage.
If correct, plug in J1,3. Plug in SDB J3.
Check SDB for proper operation of 5v and HV regulators.
If correct, plug in MPU, check for 7 flashes.
If correct, put game in test mode, check for proper operation of lamps, solenoids, displays, switches.

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