(Topic ID: 66840)

Please post BoP 2.0 hands-on impressions and reviews here!


By alveolus

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 87 posts
  • 41 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by KoenHeltzel
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 87 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 6 years ago

This looks really top notch! Thank you so much for doing this, and for accepting feedback. I have some thoughts:

- Any creative solutions that would allow for a multiball ball-saver in this machine with no auto-plunger? Probably too impractical, but this playfield begs for one.
- does mode progress occur during MB, or resume afterward
- the 18min game was dominated by locking balls and MB with some cool modes thrown in; it was a bit monotonous to watch. Any thoughts of having an additional gameplay goal during single ball play that uses the other shots. Say, complete loop inserts to qualify a mode,hurry-up,award, or some other progress in the game. (For example, in NGG you are also trying to shoot designated shots to advance to the green to finish holes.) If no mode was running, all I noticed were the basic insert points award which is little motivation to aim for those shots.
- along the same lines, what does it take to access the Pinbot playfield? I didn't see it used once, which is not enough IMO.
- OK this is radical but, any thoughts of re-designing the insert decals to reflect rule changes? Obviously, this would need to be optional, but it might finally motivate me to pull the mylar
- I wanted to re-iterate the idea of considering allowing for the fully rendered video to output to an LCD and bypass the DMD conversion

Either way, thanks again and I can't wait to install 2.0!!

#52 6 years ago

BoP is a right-flipper-mostly game. Are there modes that encourage shots from the left flipper? Way too much post passing to the right flipper...IMHO.

#53 6 years ago
Quoted from Euchrid:

BoP is a right-flipper-mostly game. Are there modes that encourage shots from the left flipper? Way too much post passing to the right flipper...IMHO.

So true! Spinner, bumpers, and R loop need to be made more rewarding/lucrative/integral.

#54 6 years ago

Where did you go TheNoTrashCougar?

#55 6 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Where did you go TheNoTrashCougar?

He changed his game to 10ball and is on his first play still.

#56 6 years ago

Will 2.0 have the ability to accept coins, or is it free play only?

Is it possible for us to swap out music with tracks more to our liking? Honestly if I got it, I'd probably want to put in the original BoP music.

Very cool stuff overall!

#57 6 years ago
Quoted from KoenHeltzel:

Hey guys,
We recorded a game yesterday to give you the full overview of what is currently in the Bride of Pinbot 2.0 game software.
ยป YouTube video
This machine (the one at Expo) is pretty brutal set up to keep ball times low; that's why for this video we did a 5-ball game.
The YouTube description has a couple of timecode links so you can jump between the various goals and missions.
Thanks for the support everybody!
PS: The old main music was replaced by something less annoying (but too energetic for normal gameplay), but since our sound guy Jules is on a honeymoon we were not able to check this with him (the new music was composed by him too, we just weren't using it anywhere yet). Basically everything you see is subject to change (for the better).
Koen - programmer Dutch Pinball

Wow, this looks amazing. I can't believe how polished it looks, fantastic work. When I eventually buy a BOP (which is probably my favourite game), I will definitely want to get one of these too.

My only criticism is that it lacks the 'emotion' of the original. As in, Bride will giggle and get excited and stuff like that. In 2.0 it all sounds very tame and almost robotic, at least from what I've seen in that video. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as what is shown here is on another level in regards to a pinball game to play. But it would be cool if there was a bit of excitement in her voice as you progress to wizard modes etc.

#58 6 years ago

Hey Centerflank, I think two balls is enough

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Hey Centerflank, I think two balls is enough

Not for the octopus.

#60 6 years ago

Hey Guys,
I will take a first pass at these questions and let Koen or Barry chime in with more details.

Quoted from alveolus:

Any creative solutions that would allow for a multiball ball-saver in this machine with no auto-plunger? Probably too impractical, but this playfield begs for one.

During multiball, if you do not score any jackpots and end the multiball, the machine will give you the opportunity to restart the multiball by shooting the scoop. This, of course, is then only a 2 ball multiball.

Quoted from alveolus:

does mode progress occur during MB, or resume afterward

If you are in a wheel mode and start multiball the wheel mode is ended. This may change in the future, but I am not sure what Koen's vision is for that.

Quoted from alveolus:

the 18min game was dominated by locking balls and MB with some cool modes thrown in; it was a bit monotonous to watch. Any thoughts of having an additional gameplay goal during single ball play that uses the other shots. Say, complete loop inserts to qualify a mode,hurry-up,award, or some other progress in the game. (For example, in NGG you are also trying to shoot designated shots to advance to the green to finish holes.) If no mode was running, all I noticed were the basic insert points award which is little motivation to aim for those shots.

The other shots definitely are important when there is not wheel mode running. You can jack up your shot values by hitting them multiple times. This is great feedback to make the shots do more when there are no modes running.

Quoted from alveolus:

along the same lines, what does it take to access the Pinbot playfield? I didn't see it used once, which is not enough IMO.

Yeah Barry did not demonstrate this feature during his game. In order to hit the mini playfield you need to shoot the left ramp when your locks are not lit. It is actually pretty cool. Do that enough times and you can start Pinbot multiball!

Quoted from alveolus:

OK this is radical but, any thoughts of re-designing the insert decals to reflect rule changes? Obviously, this would need to be optional, but it might finally motivate me to pull the mylar

So the only inserts that we are using that do not line up to the rules are the heartbeat ramp inserts. We are using them as ball lock indicators. We are not planning on making insert decals for these as it is not a significant problem.

Quoted from alveolus:

I wanted to re-iterate the idea of considering allowing for the fully rendered video to output to an LCD and bypass the DMD conversion

This has been requested a few times. Feedback taken, but Barry will have to talk a bit more about this.

Quoted from bobbyconover:

Will 2.0 have the ability to accept coins, or is it free play only?

I believe the final version will have this ability, but I cannot guarantee it. Koen has considered it, but he will have to chime in on this as well.

Quoted from bobbyconover:

Is it possible for us to swap out music with tracks more to our liking?

This will not be an option as we have music and sound effects that sync with the gameplay. Our sound engineer Jules is a very talented artist and I think everyone will be happy with the final result.

Quoted from Mar:

My only criticism is that it lacks the 'emotion' of the original. As in, Bride will giggle and get excited and stuff like that. In 2.0 it all sounds very tame and almost robotic, at least from what I've seen in that video. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as what is shown here is on another level in regards to a pinball game to play. But it would be cool if there was a bit of excitement in her voice as you progress to wizard modes etc.

Excellent feedback! Thank you.

Thank you everyone for the feedback. We take everything seriously and will be using this to build the best game possible for you guys.

I also do not set my machines on 10-ball for fear of the wrath of the gods. Please you guys, keep them off 10-ball!

#61 6 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

I also do not set my machines on 10-ball

#62 6 years ago

Thanks again for the response!

Another thing that I noticed was lacking in the video was the wheel inserts animation. In BoP 1.0, the wheel inserts are always doing something interesting. I really dig that. On 2.0, there is often just one insert statically lit. Not too interesting.

Yet another opinion: If the right and left loops are only lit for 25K, 50K, 100K during regular single-ball play, I think this is a missed opportunity to make the shots/rules more interesting. I don't give a flip about 25K when I'm playing BoP, nor do I care about the meager pops and spinner values. Just my 2c.

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Another thing that I noticed was lacking in the video was the wheel inserts animation. In BoP 1.0, the wheel inserts are always doing something interesting. I really dig that. On 2.0, there is often just one insert statically lit. Not too interesting.

Yet another opinion: If the right and left loops are only lit for 25K, 50K, 100K during regular single-ball play, I think this is a missed opportunity to make the shots/rules more interesting. I don't give a flip about 25K when I'm playing BoP, more do I care about the meager pops and spinner values. Just my 2c.

All great feedback. I will make sure to bring up all of these ideas during our next meeting. Thanks again.
--Scott

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from schwarz:

Totally agree, that tune would drive me crazy.

Changed my mind about the music, first cut was very repeditive. Not so much anymore. Still don't love it but it's probably more user friendly than my tastes.

#65 6 years ago

My feeling was it needed more of the Pinbot story. Felt too much like a space shuttle pin and not pinbot.

The execution was really quite good, but the carpet doesn't match the drapes so to speak

#66 6 years ago

Looks awesome. I'm actually not looking for it to be like the original as it will have the original rules to so if I want goofy/sexy sounds I'll move to that program. I'm super excited about this and hope to be able to get it.

I'm glad to hear the pinbot field is used more than shown as that was a bit disappointing not to see. After watching this video I can't see where anyone can call this a one shot pin anymore as the modes make you shoot everything.

I do have one suggestion/thought which could help incorporate the head a bit more. I noticed while in multiball that when the player shot the ramp they got a jackpot. The ball was shot up their again and it got jackpot again. Any thoughts about having some jackpot progression? I was thinking that after the first jackpot (in her mouth), the head could flip over to her eyes. Then the player could shoot the ramp for to lock the balls in her eyes. First shot to her eye would lock the ball and be a double jackpot. If another ball is shot up the ramp and locks in her other eye it could be a super jackpot.

To make the super jackpot even more challenging and fun you could make it to where after the head turns to the eyes the first shot goes into the pinbot playfield. Then the second to an eye. Third to the playfield again and forth completes the Super jackpot.

One potential challenge would be if you shot two balls up the ramp and one was still going up the ramp when the head was turning though. I would think that the ball would be stopped by the head moving and would finish rolling back down when the head stopped but I could be wrong.

Just a suggestion that I think would be cool to see.

#67 6 years ago

P.S. - I really like the music.

Wish I could get this to my house and installed in time for Texas Pinball Festival. If I could I'd commit to bringing to to the show. Doesn't look like timing will work though.

#68 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Looks awesome. I'm actually not looking for it to be like the original as it will have the original rules to so if I want goofy/sexy sounds I'll move to that program. I'm super excited about this and hope to be able to get it.
I'm glad to hear the pinbot field is used more than shown as that was a bit disappointing not to see. After watching this video I can't see where anyone can call this a one shot pin anymore as the modes make you shoot everything.
I do have one suggestion/thought which could help incorporate the head a bit more. I noticed while in multiball that when the player shot the ramp they got a jackpot. The ball was shot up their again and it got jackpot again. Any thoughts about having some jackpot progression? I was thinking that after the first jackpot (in her mouth), the head could flip over to her eyes. Then the player could shoot the ramp for to lock the balls in her eyes. First shot to her eye would lock the ball and be a double jackpot. If another ball is shot up the ramp and locks in her other eye it could be a super jackpot.
To make the super jackpot even more challenging and fun you could make it to where after the head turns to the eyes the first shot goes into the pinbot playfield. Then the second to an eye. Third to the playfield again and forth completes the Super jackpot.
One potential challenge would be if you shot two balls up the ramp and one was still going up the ramp when the head was turning though. I would think that the ball would be stopped by the head moving and would finish rolling back down when the head stopped but I could be wrong.
Just a suggestion that I think would be cool to see.

if the head is turning the ball can fall into the catch pan and would be put back on the PF by the jackpot scoop.

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I do have one suggestion/thought which could help incorporate the head a bit more. I noticed while in multiball that when the player shot the ramp they got a jackpot. The ball was shot up their again and it got jackpot again. Any thoughts about having some jackpot progression? I was thinking that after the first jackpot (in her mouth), the head could flip over to her eyes. Then the player could shoot the ramp for to lock the balls in her eyes. First shot to her eye would lock the ball and be a double jackpot. If another ball is shot up the ramp and locks in her other eye it could be a super jackpot.

To make the super jackpot even more challenging and fun you could make it to where after the head turns to the eyes the first shot goes into the pinbot playfield. Then the second to an eye. Third to the playfield again and forth completes the Super jackpot.

All good ideas, but keep in mind that you have only seen multiball 1 at this point. We wanted this one to be pretty straight forward. Collect 5 jackpots then lock a ball in the mouth and shoot the scoop for super jackpot.

Quoted from calvin12:

if the head is turning the ball can fall into the catch pan and would be put back on the PF by the jackpot scoop.

If you have a catch pan. I have seen a few that do not have this and Koen has been very careful in programming the machine to ensure we do not have to rely on this being present.

--Scott

#70 6 years ago

First of all: Koen and Barry really nailed it! I knew their dot animations were good, but they keep amazing me. I played the game on sunday morning at Expo right after Pinlawyer reached Multiball 2, which apparently was still a bit buggy. I understood nobody got that far prior to that. I liked the new music package a lot as it brings a more energetic vibe to the game. I also really like how some elements were executed: skill shot and extra ball mode come to mind.

Some comments / suggestions I'd like to do:
- add some humor in the voice calls. I think it would be funny when the game says to shoot the heartbeat ramp, and you shoot the left ramp, the game interacts by saying "No, shoot the heartbeat ramp" or something like that. Not every time, but occasionally. Maybe the BBB tube dancer can be an inspirational source?
- The Move your Shuttle mode is now announced by the bride, but I think it would work better if it was more like a non announced interrupting mode.
- I may not have been able to pay too much attention to the music in detail, but it might help if each mode has it's own music and a nice ending to it before going back to the main tune.

These may all be a bit nitpicky, but may help making it a neat cohesive package.

Question: does the complete package also include new cabinet artwork? That wasn't shown at Expo but is absolutely stunning.

#71 6 years ago

I wish I could find a catch can as mine was removed

Scott - I showed my wife this last night and she loved it too. She wants me to get it. Is their a "sign up" list or do you have to pre-order? I'm not comfortable paying for it now and hoping it get's produced. I'm sure you'll refund but I don't like fronting money like that especially when conversions take place. No telling (especially right now) what the US dollar will exchange at down the road. Could be a win for you or a win for me but I'm just not a betting person I'd like to be put on the list though if their is one going around therwise I'll just wait till closer to the deadline to look at ordering.

As for install. Are we talking about cutting and splicing wires or is it plug and play? I see the FAQ says it's not hard depending on skills. Is this a one day install thing are is it much more in depth than that? Since it's using a P-roc I'm assuming you have to rewire all the switches but you know what happens when you assume.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

If you have a catch pan. I have seen a few that do not have this and Koen has been very careful in programming the machine to ensure we do not have to rely on this being present.
--Scott

So have I but I have one so in my one sided me first world its not an issue

#73 6 years ago
Quoted from unigroove:

add some humor in the voice calls. I think it would be funny when the game says to shoot the heartbeat ramp, and you shoot the left ramp, the game interacts by saying "No, shoot the heartbeat ramp" or something like that. Not every time, but occasionally. Maybe the BBB tube dancer can be an inspirational source?

This is definitely on the list of to-do items and we are aware that it is not as funny as it could be at the moment.

Quoted from unigroove:

I may not have been able to pay too much attention to the music in detail, but it might help if each mode has it's own music and a nice ending to it before going back to the main tune.

Currently each mode has custom music created by Jules.

Quoted from 85vett:

Is their a "sign up" list or do you have to pre-order? I'm not comfortable paying for it now and hoping it get's produced. I'm sure you'll refund but I don't like fronting money like that especially when conversions take place.

You can pre-order now at http://www.dutchpinball.com/order. You do not have pay right at this minute, but keep in mind that unless we get 20 paid pre-orders before Jan 1st, the project will not happen.

Quoted from 85vett:

As for install. Are we talking about cutting and splicing wires or is it plug and play? I see the FAQ says it's not hard depending on skills. Is this a one day install thing are is it much more in depth than that? Since it's using a P-roc I'm assuming you have to rewire all the switches but you know what happens when you assume.

The install is not that bad. There is no wire splicing or switch rewiring to be done. The P-ROC fits right in where the CPU goes and plugs into the existing wiring. The display panel drops right in as well. You will need to hook up the computer in the base of the cabinet and run the cables to the other various components. There will be detailed installation documents to help. Really, not bad.

--Scott

#74 6 years ago

Big thanks to Scott for all the responses! I look forward to every possible nugget of information I can get on this project.

I want to mention that I love when you use the call-outs from the original, such as "Mission Control, standing by." As far as I'm concerned, more little touches like this would be great, such as when the Bride laughs, says "Wow!" or Pinbot says, "Oh, no!" Maybe even pull in a couple of the sound effects.

#75 6 years ago

Oh yeah, is there still any billion shot tucked in the code somewhere on 2.0?

#76 6 years ago

Last two questions.

- How many pre-orders do you have already? Just curious on how likely this will get done.

- What are the chances of having the kit (assuming they get done) by the end of Feb? I would love to be able to do this conversion to my BOP and be able to bring it to the Texas Pinball Festival for people to play.

#77 6 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

Oh yeah, is there still any billion shot tucked in the code somewhere on 2.0?

There's a "Lite1 billion" insert on the big wheel, and in 2.0 it will be the last wheel mode you get to play. Like a wizard mode for completing the whole wheel. We will try to balance it out, so you might get the billion only if you complete the whole wizard mode (as opposed to one shot), if you don't complete it you might only get a chunk of the billion instead.

Quoted from 85vett:

- How many pre-orders do you have already? Just curious on how likely this will get done.

- What are the chances of having the kit (assuming they get done) by the end of Feb? I would love to be able to do this conversion to my BOP and be able to bring it to the Texas Pinball Festival for people to play.

I can tell you that at this point we do not have enough "Paid" pre-orders to produce the project. It's all up to you guys to get this project produced!!!

Thanks for all the support!
--Scott

#78 6 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I would love to be able to do this conversion to my BOP and be able to bring it to the Texas Pinball Festival for people to play.

That would be fantastic! I'm going to look into setting up another group of P-ROC projects in our booth at TPF. Would love to make an ever-maturing P-ROC project display a staple of both shows (TPF and Expo). There are a lot of talented people in this hobby, obviously including Dutch Pinball, and I'd like to give them a venue for showing off their machines.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#79 6 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

I can tell you that at this point we do not have enough "Paid" pre-orders to produce the project. It's all up to you guys to get this project produced!!!
Thanks for all the support!
--Scott

mine is paying out today finally

#80 6 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

mine is paying out today finally

Great news! Thanks Joe!

Quoted from gstellenberg:

I would love to be able to do this conversion to my BOP and be able to bring it to the Texas Pinball Festival for people to play.

Although I cannot guarantee that you will have your kit in time for TPF 2014, there is a high likelihood that it will ship with plenty of time to install it. We will be shipping out kits in the order or payment received. It would be great to see the Bride 2.0 make an appearance at TPF next year!

--Scott

#81 6 years ago

I had the chance to play BOP 2.0 and it was my choice as a best new game. I'd like to add that I am friends with Python Anghelo so seeing his work reinvented with new dots and sounds blew me away. These guys really nailed it. I didn't really have a great game so I missed a lot, but what I did see, was so impressive that I'm sure a BOP 2.0 is in my future. I just have to raise the funds!

#82 6 years ago

So, do you have to pay the entire amount up front? If so, that might be causing some folks to stall (like me
On the other hand, I would be happy with a deposit refundable only in the event that the kits aren't delivered. Then with a pay-in-full date of 12/31 or whatever. Or I can just hold on to my money until I'm ready to write the check for the full amount. But I am definitely in!

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

Great news! Thanks Joe!

--Scott

Wonder if I can find someone who knows how to install it....

#84 6 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

Wonder if I can find someone who knows how to install it....

I have no "clue" as to what you mean...

#85 6 years ago

I have a raging clue

#86 6 years ago

I second the idea of a refundable deposit. That would make me much more inclined to pull the trigger on this major purchase.

#87 6 years ago

Hey guys,

Just wanted to report that the bug that sometimes caused the game to release a locked ball at Expo (and getting confused about the ball count in the trough after that ball drained) is now fixed.

I now know that this would happen in a multiplayer game when one player would play multiball and score at least one jackpot, then ending the ball without hitting the shuttle ramp after the multiball. Then another player (that already hit the shuttle ramp once during a previous ball to at least "prepare the shuttle") hits the shuttle ramp with a lock lit, and the bug would occur.

The bug crept into my code while fixing another bug (oh the irony) on October 10th, and we did discover it during test games the day before Expo but unfortunately couldn't reproduce it in time, resulting in a few occurrences during Expo, like in the video that was posted by calvin12. The bug was fixed with 1 line of code.

I just wanted to post this so you guys (and especially the people who saw the bug occur) can see we are serious about stuff like this. We have had a bug tracking system and a dedicated tester (Scott) for some time now, but the timing on this bug's introduction and complexity of the reproduction steps were just unfortunate.

Thanks guys,

Koen

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