Hello, my name is Dave. I appreciated reading various posts people helped on someone elses Hokus Pokus and hoped you could help me. Here is my dilema. I have brought 15 pins back to life. I started with an EM then went to SS and DMD. I buy them cheap and restore them and sell them. Not as much for the money but more to keep them alive and people enjoying them. Well I bought a dead Hokus Pokus. A friend of my wife wanted to buy it as a Christmas present for her husband and two daughters. I said I would sell it to her for what I bought it for plus my cost of parts but wouldn't charge her any thing for my time to fix it. The flippers were jacked, I fixed them. The bonus unit count down feature was gummed. I disassembled and cleaned and reassembled. Rebuilt all score wheels, match unit, ball count unit. Pretty much anything that moved was taken apart and cleaned. Finally the game worked 100%. All features worked Praise God! I played 10 games in single and 2-player mode. It was awesome. I clear coated the backglass and it dried perfectly. I then went to the store to buy paint to touch up a few spots on the BG. I was excited when I returned and called my wife out to the garage to show her. I have spent more time on this machine than any others I have done. I turned the game on and score wheels zero'd but it did not kick the ball. When I play a 1-player game (its set for free play) it does everything but it doesn't kick th eball, however when you hit start button again for 2 player it changes to 2 can play and kicks the ball out. That ball scores correctly EXCEPT the ABCD lights that are in a line in the center of PF do not stay on as they used to. They flash on (when they are tripped) and go off. I know this is wrong because getting them once scores a bonus, twice a different bonus. I have the schematic and manual. I posted the manual to IPDB, but it i snot there. I can email it to whoever wants to help me. I need this resolved before Christmas. I can't let her down. I spent over 20 hours since and I am at a total loss. I cleaned and checked every switch making sure it was making correct contacts energized and un energized. Can you help me? I called all pin repair guys and they want to royally screw me and charge $200-250. I sold the game for $390. I replaced all lights, new rubbers, new balls. cleaned and waxed playfield. I am getting stressed and sick of the time I am spending. My personal email is [email protected] phone 602.524.6081 I live in Arizona

I am off today and going for another head banging session with the game 8(.
Here are a few clues I discovered:
I have the game on and in an active game on ball 1 (manually kicking it out) I noticed that The top gates A-B-C-D have two switches they each control. when I slowly push on the A wire the first switch trips the corresponding A relay that lights the A-B-C- or D light and it stays on until I press more closing the second switch that scores the points and rings bell but the light then goes off.

I really think that the issue i srelated to the bonus score mechanism. When the game was working it would zero out by the - solenoid and then + once to advance it and light the 1000 light it seemed to then kick the ball after that (from what I remember)

I will check the ball index. The out hole seems fine because when I hit th estart button for two player it kicks the ball out.

More clues: When I inspected the ball count I found a broken solder joint. Fixed that no change. However, I am about to disassemble the ball count unit and clean it. (The only one I had not done yet). But here is another possible clue. I power on with playfield lifted, Game over lights. I start a game. score wheels zero out, goes to ball 1 but ball doesn't kick out. The bonus score assembly mounted under playfield is not resetting itself automatically as it was when it was when game was working. As soon as I trip one of the gates A-B-C or D at the top the bonus unit "wakes up" and resets at 1000 and lights the Playfield 1000 light like it is suppossed to at game start and energiz es the ball kicker.

Question: How many turns are the springs on the bonus unit and ball count supposed to be set at? I would assume they would be the same number since they are very similar in configuration.
I am now going to disassemble the ball count in the head and see if that helps anything.

Thanks for everyones help. I really need to get the game working perfectly for the lady that is getting it as a Christmas present for her Husband and 2 daughters.

In taking apart the ball count I found another interesting thing. The solenoid plungers have a groove in them and on this groove sits a nylon washer of sorts to keep the plunger centered in the tube. One looked fine but the other looked all worn. It seemed to be binding a bit. Could be part of one of my problems.

plunger-spacer.JPG

You instructed me to:
"Start a game and make sure the OH RE is de energised. Press the “A” rollover button ensure the “A” RE energies and latches. Then operate the Outhole RE it should trip the “A” RE."

I started a game. As soon as I rollover "A" outhole RE energizes. When I stuck a plastic piece preventing outhole RE to energize the "A" rollover (trips 2 switches) makes contact first at one switch that lit the "A" on the playfield and it stayed lit. Pressing it more made the second switch close which scores but then turns off the "A" light.

I have GREAT NEWS! Making Progress- After rebuilding the ball count unit the game now starts and the bonus mech under th eplayfield resets now and starts at 1000 and the light is on. After getting the A light to stay lit with the plastic I looked more closely and noticed a lower level switch was not correct. After adjusting it the A-B-C-D lights work correctly, completing them th esecond time enables the double bonus and enabling them th ethird time enables the special.

Here are some strange clues:
Turning game on starts with game over lit as it should. Pressing the start button resets the game as a 1 player and appears ready to play. Bonus set at 1000, but it does NOT kick the ball out, HOWEVER if I press the start button again it changes to a 2 player game and kicks the ball out. That ball plays perfectly. When the ball drains however the bonus is not scoring accurately. I know I need to fine tune the correct spring tension. Also, I just caught that the 9's switch is not rolling the next digit. I will fix that tomorrow (wow! it is after 2am) I guess I will fix it when I get up "today".

Turning game on starts with game over lit as it should. Pressing the start button resets the game as a 1 player and appears ready to play. Bonus set at 1000, but it does NOT kick the ball out, if I press the start button again it changes to a 2 player game and kicks the ball out. After the ball drains nothing happens, however if I trip a rollover it adds the points and then kicks the ball out.

I am making great progress. Thank you so much for your assistance. I feel confident that with your help I will have it at 100% in time.

Now that the bonus is working perfectly I think now I need for the game to know where the ball is during gameplay. At the end of a single player game startup it doesn’t kick the ball. I still suspect the bonus relay. It is not stepping up and down like it was when it was playing. On a 2 player game it kicks the ball out but doesn’t sense it when it drains. Then after it drains if you score points it dings but the score doesn’t change, however tripping A-D scores points to player 1 and then switches to player 2 and kicks out the ball.

I fixed the score wheels 9 position. They all roll the next wheel over after 9. I was looking more closely at the score motor and I may have found my issue.

Score-motor_wire.JPG

The three wires that are all together were not stripped. Looking at the schematic I believe they are for a 3rd coin which I do not have. HOWEVER, See the blue/w-red I found that wire taped with electrical tape. The interesting thing is that if you look closely at the (second from the right) switch stack the top switch. It definately had something soldered to it at one time. Is that where the Blue /w-red wire is to be soldered? That is cam 2.

In response to your questions. To make it free play I shorted the switch on the credit wheel keeping it closed. However it is possible to have it give a credit if you complete A-D three times it lights the special which is a free game.

After thinking about it more I doubt it is a part of my issue because the game worked fine. I played at least 10 games in single and two player and at that time everything worked fine. I think it is a problem with the temperature change might be causing issues. The game is in my garage and I am in Arizona where the temp in the day was mid 70's and at night mid 50's. The thermal shock could be at play. It was mid 80's when the game played perfectly. I think it is in the switches.

When you talk about the switches what is odd is that when you press the start button it resets wheels but doesn't kick the ball out. When you press the start button again it changes to two player and it kicks out the ball. At that point the ball scores perfectly, however when it drains the outhole is not sensed and the ball is not kicked out for the next ball. However if you touch A, B, C or D then it scores and kicks out the ball. It is like the timing is messed up.

I brought the game inside the house. When I added credits to the game it made no difference. I will be checking the switches this evening.

OK, I just got the entire game to work. PRAISE THE LORD! There is only ONE - UNO problem now. The ball advance stays on ball 1. It does the same on 2 player. It switches back and forth but stays on ball 1. What did I mess up while fixing my other issues. I do not want to touch anything and I am paranoid regarding this. Thanks so much Chrisbee. I would like your real name and address. I want to send you a token of graditude because without you I'd have been sunk.
Thanks,
Dave

I did receive new collars from Steve at Pinball Resource. I was able to clean it up nicely. I will take pictures in a minute and post both sides as requested.

I did not replace the sleeves or coils they seemed fine. There was no binding. The earlier picture of the assembly all taken apart makes the switch appear munched, but it is taken at an odd angle. The assembly cleaned up nicely and has absolutly no binding. An interesting fact is that I tweaked the relays and tomorrow I will look again to see if I touched something causing the issue. After I cleaned it it worked perfectly. Manually engaging it moves the light from 1-2-3-4-5-game over as it should. I must have bumped the relay on the bottom board.

Here are the pictures as requested

Ball-count1.JPG Ball-count2.JPG

It cleaned up very nice.

I just took a quick look and the ball index relay is right next to the outhole relay on the bottom board. I believe I might have bumped it possibly. The assembly in the head has been flawless since I rebuilt it. It progressed from 1 , 2, 3, 4, 5 and then game over as it should.

I rummaged through my parts box and found 2 sleeves, so I replaced the sleeves and bushings. See picture. They move even easier now (they were pretty smooth before). It made no difference.

The odd thing is that when I start a single player game the ball kicks out fine. When I manually engage the ball count assy in the head I need to do it twice. almost like it is confused that it is not a 2 player game. Here is another interesting thing. When I start a 1 player game it kicks the ball out as it should. I then press start again and it changes to a 2 player game and lights 2 player in head. I then drain the ball and it stays on ball one and it also stays on player 1.

This game will be the death of me.

New sleeves and bushings. The replaced sleeves shown in picture were metal (probably original stock)

Sleeves-bushings.JPG

Might not have been clear. When I said I need to engage it twice I meant that for it to go from ball 1 to ball 2 I need to engage the assy twice per ball. I also noticed that the player 1 light goes off every other engagement. Hope that clarifies.

More details.. I just started a 2 player game and manually engaged the ball count assy and it does toggle between player 1 and player 2. I manually engaged the assy causing player 2 to light. scoring was added to player 2. When I drained it added bonus to player 2 and then kicked out ball staying on player. I also verified that the solenoid is good because shorting it caused it to engage and advance as it should.

In case anyone needed to see the schematic it is in the manual at thi slink:
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=2878

I flexstoned the bonus score relay. No change

You asked "How is it that the ball count unit affects the player unit?" well when I manually press on the ball count solenoid it toggles the ball number for each player. Since it is a 2 player capable game it flip-flops between player 1 and 2- ball 1, ball 2, ball 3 ball 4 and ball 5 pressing again lights game over.

No it does not. When a 2 player game is started (pressing the start button twice) it lights the 2 player light on the backglass. When the first ball of player 1 drains it kicks it out and it remains on player 1, ball 1. If I manually engage the ball count assy in the head I can manually make it move to player 2 and the ball scores player 2 ball 1. When it drains it adds the bonus score and remains player 2 ball 1.

You asked "Or is the wiper assembly off a by a rivet?" I believe no because if I manually move the fingers to be ball 5 or any non 1 number when you reset the game it releases as it should and the pin in the gear engages the switches in the ball count unit and it resets it to ball 1.

Correct, Power on, Game Over, press start button begins 1 player game. Starts at ball 1. Ball plays fine. When it drains it adds bonus score and kicks it out again but it is a continuation of ball 1. It stays on whatever ball the ball count is at. What I mean is that if I manually move it to ball 3 it will play the ball. when it drains it remains on ball 3. Even on ball 5 and the ball drains it should go into game over, but it stays at ball 5.

I also tried the spring at several different settings. No effect.

You asked "What happens with just a one player game does the ball not advance correctly?
1-2-3-4-5- G.O."
It stays on whatever ball you manually set the ball count unit in a single or 2 player game. Even if you manually move the ball count unit to ball 5 and the ball drains it SHOULD end the game and light game over. That IS what it does when you manually press the plunger, however if you let the game do it, it drains and kicks out the ball again and ball 5 continues. So if you start a normal 1 player game you can play forever on ball 1. It just keeps kicking it out and adding to ball 1 player 1 score.

@way2wyrd scroll above, there is a link to the schematic. I shorted the solenoid and it fired fine.

When a two player game is started it stays on player one ball one. However if I engage the ball count unit manually it toggles between player 1 and player 2 as it should.

All scoring works. When I toggle it over to player 2 it scores. It just doesn't toggle by itself.

OK, I started a 1 player game and ball 1 is kicked out. At that point the ball index relay is NOT energised. Scoring points energised the ball index relay. At this point the extra ball relay is NOT energised and the outhole relay is NOT energised. Putting the ball in the out hole energised the outhole relay and it kicked the ball out but the ball index mechanism stayed at ball 1.

Here is a question for you guys: Ina 1 player game should the ball index mechanism solenoid require 2 manual engagements for each ball? It makes sense in a 2 player game because it toggles each player, but in a 1 player game I need to engage the solenoid twice per each ball number and the player light goes on and off. It never toggles to player 2 which makes sense but I would think it would only need to be engaged once per ball.

I checked outhole switch, ball index relay switch (yellow blue / blue orange wires), Extra ball relay (blue white / yellow blue) and the corresponding switches opened and closed correctly when their relay was energised.

I will double check the Score motor switch 3a and 4a tomorrow since the game is inside the house and my daughter is sleeping.

As you can see by my photo none of the wire colors match. Is this because I only have 2 coin chutes? I have several wires (see photo) that were wrapped with electrical tape.

2nd_coin_relay.JPG

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
My mistake, the one you were referring to is located in the head. I will take a look.

The 2nd coin interlock relay appears to be fuctioning correctly. It is energised when the 2 player game is started and the 1 player light changes to 2 player. Manually engaging the ball index mech toggles between player 1 and 2 and the ball count progresses as it should from ball 1 to 2,3,4 and 5 ending with Game Over and that lights the Game Over. I am really thinking it MUST be the score motor or one of its switches. When the game was in the garage it "turned over" very slow. Even now that it is inside it seems sluggish. I saw an article that talked about th egrease that gets all gummed up. Could the sluggish behavior reduce the efficiency and timing of the score motor switches? Do you recommend disecting and cleaning? It is the only think left to take apart and clean. I feel terrible that she had to wrap up a flyer for her husband and kids for Christmas. Unless I hear back quickly I am going to plan on cleaning the score motor.

I will first check those 2 switches. Here is the nice guide that talks about disecting the score motor.
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor

Good thing I didn't ask for a hatchet or a wood chipper for Christmas!

I unscrewed both sets (3 and 4) from the score motor and cleaned 3a and 4a. I manually rotate the score motor and I can plainly see that both switches open and close when the cams engage them.

Here is more frustrating details. I started a game after cleaning the 2 switches and there was no difference. I then (glutton for punishment) put a slice of business card preventing both 3a and 4a from making contact. Started another game and there was absolutly no difference! What the heck? I would have thought the score motor would run and not stop or SOMETHING different. Nothing!

Any other ideas? Should I clean the score motor anyway? I'd rather not waste more time (what a joke) doing things that won't make a difference.

When you power up the game it is not energized. When you start a game it remains un-energized. As soon as the first point is scored it is energized and remains energized. When the ball drains it becomes un-energized.

When energized, the (yellow blue / blue orange wires) switch is closed.

good news
So here is the latest. I now have a deeper hate for the outhole relay. There is a buried lower switch on the end that needed adjustment that was really hard to get to. So the AWESOME news is that a 2 player game works perfectly. It toggles between lighting player 1 or 2 and then it progressed thru the 5 balls and game over. HOWEVER before cracking open the champagne I tried a 1 player and it takes 2 balls draining to move the ball index 1 position (kinda like a 2 player game).

The fantasies of wood chippers has subsided and I am again excited to get the game complete. I can't thank you guys enough being there for me through this umm learning experience.

I just touched up the backglass and it came out really nice. So the single player ball count is the LAST issue before it is complete.

Does anyone have any ideas why the two player would work perfectly while the single player act strange needing two drains for the ball index to move to the next ball?

I found this online and will check out tomorrow. - Does this sound correct?
"This is from a Bally Knockout. The outhole relay operates the score motor and thru a ball index relay switch will advance the ball count unit either two steps thru a normally open #3 and #4 score motor switches during a one player game or one step thru a normally open #4 score motor switch during a two player game. The outhole relay then completes the circuit to the outhole kicker solenoid thru a normaly open #7 score motor switch."

I was thinking switch 3a on score motor might be my issue.

I am REALLY hoping to deliver it after work. I will be taking another look at 3a in a few minutes. I love working from my home office!

I just removed stack number 3 from the score motor verified that it is clean. It didn't make any difference.

That was it! Praise the Lord! I cleaned it earlier, but it must have needed to be adjusted a little tighter since it is a make break. I have learned so much on this game from you guys.

Special thanks to Jeff and Chris.

I want to do something for you both. If you guys don't have 2013 Mr.Pinball price/value guides I would like to buy you each one and have it sent to you. Can you both email me your full names and addresses?

restored4.JPG

I was born and raised in Chicago. It definately gets toasty here in Arizona June, July and August but the other nine months are awesome. I think that is why pinballs and classic cars are both so popular here. I really can't thank enough everyone that helped or gave moral support.

Here is our current weather!

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Seriously, I really want to do that. I know its not "required" send me your info.

It really is a cool game. The cool "free ball" gate is a neat feature. The game plays super fast. Someone replaced the pop bumpers with Stern J-23-700's and it ROCKS! borderline too strong.

The game played perfectly in single and two player. Played a few games before delivering it to the Pastor and his young daughters. Remember this is the game I sold for cost with nothing for labor. Well I delivered it only to find out that they wanted it in the basement. Ugh! So to lighten the load I took off the glass, hold down bar and playfield. The head and legs were already off. That made it actually pretty manageable. I then gave them pinball 101. Put the legs on, bolted head on, connected the four jones connectors. Slid the glass in and put the hold down on. The younger daughter was so excited to play so they let her play first. The game powered right up and kicked out a ball. I felt relieved. THEN she plays the first ball and bumpers work scoring works and then she hits the flippers and shortly after that the ball drains. It collects bonus but the bonus score unit finishes but the 2nd ball never gets kicked out and the score motor doesn't stop.
I figured I might need to adjust something after the drive. I brought needlenose pliers my flexstones and my contact bender. I start diagnosing the issue and see that the score motor keeps running and the outhole keeps firing the ball kicker. Then with four people watching me the game goes completly dead. What the ... So talk about timing. The solder joint on the power switch broke disconnecting power. I never was even close to that switch! Talk about timing? I desperatly want them to at least play before bedtime. So I ask if he has a soldering iron. He has very basic tools. No multimeter, no soldering iron. I then cut the other power switch wire and short them together with a wire nut. He was so happy to have one of those. Not ideal, but it lets me get back to troubleshooting. Three steps back one step forward. So I now have an issue I had not seen yet. The score motor keeps running and the outhole keeps firing the ball kicker. Any ideas? Then in my stupidity I short something and blew the 10A fuse. I didn't bring any fuses. I am heading back there tomorrow at 1:30pm

The saga is finished. I resoldered the power switch and then troubleshooted the issue. The outhole needed another round of adjustments. I just arrived home from a couple of young girls and their friend squealing with excitement. The game is complete. Again thanks for everyones help!