(Topic ID: 261961)

Please help Short Switch on The Shadow


By JeanPS71

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 72 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 69 days ago by onlydjz
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 72 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 3 months ago

Pinside I need your help.

I placed new flipperbats on my shadow, damn that was a hard job.

So now my bats are new but I'm running into problems I didn't have before.
I first noticed that my right return lane switch didn't work no more. So I checked the switch and connections, couldn't find anyhting.
So i trace de blue/white wire true the harness.
I follow it to the middle of the playfield and ther I find the blue wire soldered together as like it was connected to a node on a switch or something.
I resolderd these two blue white wires to the diode on the center switch.

In test mode my right lane return switch doesn't work, neither do the center target swith, the opt'for the miniplayfield switch.

So I desolderd the wires from the center switch.
No when it starts it says GND. Short Row 1 Is stuck closed

Test report says:
Check Switch 11 Gun Trigger
Check sitch 51 Wal Target down
GND short Row 1 Wht-BRN R1
ER BAttle kicker opto not working
ER wall tgt bad chk switch/coil

So I attached two photos with teh wires connected and desoldered.

So where do these wires connect to?
And did I fuck up bigtime.....or can we solve this easily.

IMG_20200214_150553 (resized).jpgIMG_20200214_150845 (resized).jpg
#2 3 months ago

Those wires need to be soldered to the switch as well.

#3 3 months ago

Thanks......but to what point on the switch?

I soldered it like on picture one, but it seemed to give me more problems.

Just checked now and when you turn it on, it starts shooting all balls for a couple of rounds.

#4 3 months ago

Like this. Green to right lug, white to lower left. Make sure your banded side of diode is at upper left.
20200214_075236 (resized).jpg

#5 3 months ago

Thanks again. I did exactly that.

Now it's giving me switch errors, and then it says TILT and keeps shooting ballss one by one.

I checked the tilt switches but they are allright.

#6 3 months ago

The switch, as wired in the last pic, is correct.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 3 months ago

Yes it is correct, the center switch is working again.

But I still get "GND. Short Row 1 Is stuck closed"

And then it goes into TILT and starts shooting balls.

#8 3 months ago
Quoted from JeanPS71:

But I still get "GND. Short Row 1 Is stuck closed"

Remove all lower connectors on the MPU.
Does the Ground Short Message go away?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#9 3 months ago

Uhhhh what is the MPU?
Master Power Unit? Is that in the headbox?

I did some reading on the switch matrix and I understand it to a certain level.
Row 1 white brown is out, non functional.
Row 6 right return lane is non functional.
Column 2 has 2 switches not working. The gun and the right return lane.

#10 3 months ago

Do exactly what Chris is saying. If the error goes away you have a playfield issue. If it doesn't go away you have a board issue.

If it goes away you have to check for a short on the playfield. A switch is shorting against something. Look for things that don't look factory like sloppy soldering etc. That is most likely where your issue is as operators hack up games most of the time and don't care if they play perfectly. Specifically check all switches on row 1 as you error message referred to. Gun trigger (11), slam tilt (12), Left ramp enter (31) (make sure opto solder joints aren't touching metal protector plate), trough 1 (41) (most likely not it), Wall target down (51)(area of trouble on a lot of shadows because it's a drop target), left sling (61), mini left standup (71), mini right standup (81). Check manual for switch location if you can't find them.

#11 3 months ago

This is a pic of my shadow. Unplug these. Then plug them in one by one to see when error happens starting from left to right. They are in the lower left of head box.
20200212_214428 (resized).jpg

#12 3 months ago

You people are the best.....Thanks so far. I have to go on valentine's doubledate with wife and friends now. I'd rather stay home and fix this.
I'll pick it up again this morning.

#13 3 months ago

Good morning....
So I checked disconnecting those connectors....no more switch errors. It did tell me to check a fuse. I did and it is alright,(checked with dmm)

I resoldered the diode on right return inlane. But keep getting the same errors.
I disconnected the gun switch.....all the errors remained.
So I'm gonna check the wiring of all the error switches.....but that all seems fine.
Maybe I have shorted diode.....but how do you find the broken one?

#14 3 months ago

So with connectors MPU connected I get this picture. It shows row 1 is shorted

When I disconnect that connector the short is gone.
That probably means the problem is on the playfield.

I reflowed most wires and diodes on the switches in the row. But that didn't help.
IMG_20200215_120623 (resized).jpg

#15 3 months ago

Yes, it's on playflied. Make sure a diode isn't touching both lugs. There is a short somewhere, not a bad diode. Well, I diode can be bad but that shouldn't cause a short. Look at ever switch on row 1. Anything in cab that could touch a switch with playfield lowered?

#16 3 months ago

I once found someone soldered a set of wires to a gi bulb holder and later cut them off . They most have done that to power something else. Part of the cut wire was touching the other part of lamp socket. This wouldn't cause switch issues but look for some garbage like that on the switch matrix. All switches should be wired the same. Check for one with a variation.

#17 3 months ago

Which set off connectors creates the short when you plug in, green or white? What "j" connector?

#18 3 months ago

If I recall correctly it was the third connector from the low row of connectors.
I also unplugged the connector with the brown white wire coming on the PCB near the apron.
That also makes the short go away.

The strange thing is that it was working great before I changed the flipperbats.

#19 3 months ago

New day new chances.

I discovered that the right return lane switch wasn't working because of a loose connector to the switch. Resoldered it and it's working now

I still have row1 shorted though.
I checked the through optos where the balls stay before they are fired....
All optos working.
I tried to check all the wires connected to the switches on row one.....can find a short.

I checked all eofs they all work
I disconnected the connectors from the opto board see pic.
When I remove the connector from the pic, all shorts disappear.....but that is to be expected, cause that connector also powers the board.
IMG_20200216_101650 (resized).jpg

#20 3 months ago

I als followed brown white. Can't see shorts or broken wire.
Disconnected every connector with a brown white wire. Still shorted row 1

#21 3 months ago

Ok so I retrued the test with the bottom connectors 205 207 209 disconnected.
The row ground short message is gone. But it still tells me to check some switches.
When I turn the machine off and on, it tells me to check fuses and 12v opto supply.

I checked the fuses they are ok

On the backboard there's a series of LEDs d19 d20 and d21 see pic2. The upper one is off, the middle one is blinking and the lower one is steadily on. I also noticed an LEd between 2 elcos off.
15818614551603035761237885801806 (resized).jpg15818612951469066598342806512059 (resized).jpg

#22 3 months ago

Measured 12v on opto board and the led on the board is on.

#23 3 months ago

If you unplug the opto board, the short goes away and regular switches in row 1 now work? (Turn on machine and ignore the check fuses message) If so, you have found the area of problem is on the opto board shorting the white/brown wire to ground. LM339 IC on the opto board bad most likely.

#24 3 months ago

I had to just replace my opto board. Most likely you hit it when changing the flipper bats.

#25 3 months ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

I had to just replace my opto board.

djshakes , Those are very repairable....
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#26 3 months ago

jeanps71 MOST Ground shorts are caused by MPU or opto board circuitry and are not a result of PF wiring.

Disconnect the opto board. If the short indication goes away, then the opto board probably has a failure
Otherwise, a logic probe is your best friend in tracking this down.
Operation of the 3 switch matrix LM339s on the MPU needs to be verified.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#27 3 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

djshakes , Those are very repairable....
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Yeah, I'm debating whether to send your way for repair or just sell it as is.

#28 3 months ago

Thanks people.

Tonight I'll be checking what disconnecting the optoboard does.

I'll order some sockets and lm339's and try swaping them first.

#29 3 months ago

Isn't it strange that LED 6 is off?

#30 3 months ago

LED 6 is lit in your pictures.

LED 5 -a little higher- will go ON when coindoor is closed

#31 3 months ago

Update.
I checked the switches with the opto board disconnected. All switches except the optos register.
So I think we're on the right track. Ordered some spares I'l keep you posted.

#32 3 months ago
Quoted from JeanPS71:

Ordered some spares I'l keep you posted

Spare LM339's? Good call.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#33 3 months ago

Ok back at it.
I changed out the opto board for a new one.
Every switch is working now except for the opto on the mini playfield.
I notice cause when the ball gets up there, the kicker starts kicking repeatedly.

I measure 12v on the left side but like less than 1 v on the right side.
When I check with my camera I don't see any light shining.
Could the send opto been destroyed just like that? Or is the voltage screwed.....
I wish I never changed those flipperbats.

#34 3 months ago

It is a 40KHz pulsing LED. Taking Voltage from it will give no correct value.

#35 3 months ago

Is it visible with a cellphone camera?
Cause I don't see anything on cam.

#36 3 months ago

Yes, but that is depending on the camera. Newer ones can have IR-filter.

Check other -working- opto with camera to see if it shows IR-light on display.

The opto on mini-playfield is driven by a 24-opto-board under the playfield. Is its LED lit ? Are all 3 connectors in place ? Did you check it in switch test ?

#37 3 months ago

Other optos are visible with camera.
So the sender is not working......
Test rapport says opto is out.

Switch test have all switches working, except the mini playfield one.

Raised the mini playfield, led is lit. All cables and connectors seem fine to me.
I tested the receiver with an ultrabrite mini flashlight.....that doesn't seem to work either.

#38 3 months ago

Could be a broken leg of the ir-LED on mini-playfield,.. or a leaking capacitor on the 24-optoboard.

Quoted from JeanPS71:

I tested the receiver with an ultrabrite mini flashlight.....that doesn't seem to work either.

That is because the receiver wants a 40KHz signal.

#39 3 months ago
Quoted from zaza:

24-opto-board

It's actually called a 24 inch opto board or sometimes a long hop opto board.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#24_Inch_Opto_Board_.28A-15646.29

And, it doesn't work like any other opto board, as zaza is pointing out. It works more like an IR TV controller. It sends and expects to receive a certain frequency of IR. This is to avoid interference by other light sources over the length of the much longer beam.

Often the 24 Inch Opto Board is the issue and not the optos themselves. Often, the inductor on the board vibrates itself right off the board. They can be repaired, or HomePin makes a replacement that can be sourced here in the US.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#40 3 months ago

So I took out the 24" opto board. Inspected it visually, nothing abnormal.
So I resoldered every single solderpoint.....still not working.

I tested the opto with a remote control in switch test mode....no reaction.

So I probably have to buy another new board.
Still very strange that I had a fully functional machine and that is started falling apart just like that.

#41 3 months ago

Maybe the WHT-BLU wire got shorted with a power-line when it got loose from the standup target sw #56
This same wire goes to the 24"-opto-board and could have blown the optocoupler (U2) on this board.

#42 3 months ago

Any clue how I could test that?
The board doesn't have that much components, so maybe repairing would be an alternative.

#43 3 months ago

Changing the flipper bats wasn’t your problem. It’s maintenance which is a must. Unfortunately like zaza said it was probably from that wire hitting in the wrong spot. I believe fixing them is half the fun. You learn a lot as well. It seems that you are close to having it back to 100% soon.

#44 3 months ago

Yesssssss I love you people.

Like zaza said.....I changed the optocoupler on the board and it's up and running again.

20 years ago I thought I was going to build my own modular synth, so I bought loads of components.....had a spare opto.
I'm so happy.

Thank you pinside!

#45 3 months ago
Quoted from JeanPS71:

.I changed the optocoupler on the board and it's up and running again.

Excellent !!

Quoted from JeanPS71:

20 years ago I thought I was going to build my own modular synth

That would have been my other hobby when there was no pinball : )

#46 3 months ago

Congrats!

#47 3 months ago
Quoted from JeanPS71:

Yesssssss I love you people.
Like zaza said.....I changed the optocoupler on the board and it's up and running again.

What a great call zaza !

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#48 3 months ago

Thanks Chris,

The Blue-White wire was from the beginning suspect for causing the troubles in the sw-matrix.
Lucky the 24" opto board has an opto-coupler so no further damage on this board.

1 week later
#49 78 days ago

Need help.
I've changed U14, U16,U18, U20 but the row short is still here in the switch matrix.
What more should I change for a better performance? Any ideas are welcome.

matrix err (resized).jpgmatrix err2 (resized).jpg
#50 78 days ago
Quoted from onlydjz:

Need help.
I've changed U14, U16,U18, U20 but the row short is still here in the switch matrix.
What more should I change for a better performance? Any ideas are welcome.

Quick question does the shadow use the wpc-s board not the wpc-89. Because I look up for my DH and it shows The Shadow on the list. My board looks different.

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