(Topic ID: 56809)

Please Help.. Firepower boards


By danczaz

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 216 posts
  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by RudeDogg1
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 51 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG-20130817-01666.jpg
IMG-20130803-01608.jpg
IMG-20130803-01607.jpg
IMG-20130803-01605.jpg
IMG-20130802-01591.jpg
IMG-20130802-01595.jpg
image.jpg
IMG-20130801-01590.jpg
IMG-20130801-01580.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
power_cord_mockup.JPG

There are 216 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
#101 6 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

ideas on where to go from here...

This next...

Quoted from Patofnaud:

Then that means the ram you store user setting in is probably bad. You'll have to replace the 'oops' as viper stated and then see if that fixes the new problem, if not you're probably looking at a 5101 chip.

viperrwk

#102 6 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

if it refuses to leave audit mode you need a new 5101

#103 6 years ago

Just to play devils advocate.. when I do the self diagnostic push button test the LEDs do not stay on Which the manual says it does need a new 5101 if they stay on.

#104 6 years ago

Just to make sure you saw the previous post, you have the coin door open, right?

#105 6 years ago

Yes. I tripled checked with door opened. Can I get the 5101 locally anywhere in chicagolandd tmrw or do I. Need to order from GPE or similar

#106 6 years ago

Ok, I think we need to take a breather for a moment,as I'm completely confused as to the actual current status of the machine.

I am assuming the power supply has been re-capped, and it's running with one of my adapters.
You've also REMOVED the battery holder, correct?

Have you installed a new battery holder of any type? If you have not, it's always going to boot into 'audit mode' every time you power it up, as there's no batteries to maintain the RAM data. It's easy to check if the 5101 is functioning. Turn the machine on, so that the 04-00 is showing. Then, very quickly turn the machine off and then back on, we're talking in about a half second to power off and on. If the 5101 chip is good, then you just need a battery holder.

Since your 5101 chip is soldered on, I do have to ask if you've got any experience with this kind of re-work. Pretty easy to wreck a board if you screw up removing chips and installing new ones.

-Hans

#107 6 years ago

Hans

All new caps on power supply board.

Cpu has new battery holder. I also. Bought the remote battery holder. For some reason when I used it batteeries were getting hot.. just put battteries now in Battery holder on board now.

Driver board has new 40 pin female installled and the mod for the 27 resistors in vids guide.

The machine always starts in display mode with game ID in player 1 and 04 00 in credit/ball display

Repllaced fuses and power cord.

Fyi sound/speech diagnostic works

Dan

#108 6 years ago

Does power cycling the machine get it into attract mode at all?

-Hans

#110 6 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

How do you power cycle?

not sure if serious? turn it off .. turn it on again...

tip: 80's bally -35 mpu's have a 5101 socketed on them. you can pinch from there if that helps but if you dont have the gear to get the old one off the firepower board smoothly you need to get someone who knows what they are doing on the case. pay once and get it done properly

#111 6 years ago

How do you power cycle?

Turning the game off and on, off and on quickly and sometimes you can "fool" it into thinking there's batteries installed.

However, here's how to check if you got battery power to your 5101 RAM chip which, in mine, I had the same issue as you. I replaced it and the game booted. With the game off, using your DMM put it in DC voltage, ground the black wire, put the red on the right side of the diode directly above the 5101 chip. Should be getting somewhere around 4.3 volts. Now test the left side. Should be a drop off to around 3.9 volts. Now check the top all the way left pin of the 5101 chip. Should be getting the 3.9 or so volts you got at the left side of the diode above. That means the chip is getting the battery power. Remember, voltages are appx. depending on how good the batteries are. If you don't get the drop off in voltage that diode is probably bad but the RAM is more than likely your issue.

Also, if you battery holder is shot or there's a cracked trace somewhere between them and the diode, that could cause the same issue. Nonetheless, if you're getting 3.9 or so volts at the top all the way left pin of the 5101 chip than, the chip is probably shot. Order new one from Great Plains or Marco's.

Note, DO NOT install your new one like I did. Socket it. I was impatient and soldered it to the board. Not very well I might add. I was inexperienced with chip removal as I had never done it before. I have improved dramatically since then and will deal with the new 5101 if it ever becomes an issue.

Be careful with desoldering the legs. It's easy to damage the plated through holes, especially on the front of the board which should be avoided with the iron as much as possible. Keep your iron's temp as low as necessary.

When installing the new chip, notch will be towards the left.

I've added some photos to help.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

#112 6 years ago

Left side of diode. 3.86 volts. Top left pin of 5101. 3.86 volts.

// Error: Image 119220 not found // // Error: Image 119221 not found // // Error: Image 119222 not found // image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

#113 6 years ago

Dtown... I will try what you did. I thought power cycle meant turn on and off but since my recent posts I said I had turn on and off several times I thought Hans might have been asking me to do something else...

#114 6 years ago

4.33 3.65 3.65 looks like my readiness were close to yours... have same DMM as you

#115 6 years ago

Replace and socket a new 5101.

Great Plains Electronics should have them as should Marco's Specialties.

I like the machined pin socket strips that you can cut to length. But some like the all in one type.

#116 6 years ago

What should I have seen if it was good?

#117 6 years ago

Or your saying since I get barrery power there and game is coming up in audit mode than the chip is bad... if I wasn't seeing power there than I had a battery holder issue..?

#118 6 years ago

If you weren't seeing power there, when the machine was turned off, then it's the battery holder.

#119 6 years ago

Thanks Hans and dtown. Going to order sockets and chip... ill update everyone when they arrive in few days.

#120 6 years ago

After seeing the firepower on ebay today go for $600 with aplayfield in same condition (maybe slightly worse) I am feeling a little better bought this purchase. The backglass definetely is better though... is there I site I am missiing for an aftermarket back glass for firepower??? Dan

#121 6 years ago

My backglass is no better than average with some flaking. With all the other stuff I've bought for the table I'm not gonna invest anymore serious money into it. However, I did buy some Krylon triple thick clear glaze and I'm gonna seal it when the weather is less humid.

#122 6 years ago

Socket and new 5101 has arrive... i should be able to get he boards back out and replace and socket the need 5101 tonight....Really hoping to get out of that damn audit mode tonight!!!

#123 6 years ago

Good luck! I hope this is it. This thread has been fun and informative to watch. I have a set of FP boards waiting repair. I was going to send them out, but I think I'll give them a look myself first.

#124 6 years ago

FIREPOWER!!!

GAME PLAYS!!!

Put in socket and new 5101.. came up in audit mode....turned on and off twice w/ coin door open and went into game over mode.. set to free play and we had action....TLC time now..looks like all solenoids firing but some switches need some work and a few bulbs... back to life!

Thanks everybody for getting me this far!!!
dan

#125 6 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

FIREPOWER!!!
GAME PLAYS!!!
Put in socket and new 5101.. came up in audit mode....turned on and off twice w/ coin door open and went into game over mode.. set to free play and we had action....TLC time now..looks like all solenoids firing but some switches need some work and a few bulbs... back to life!
Thanks everybody for getting me this far!!!
dan

Good, good. Now, comes the easy part, cleaning.

#126 6 years ago

Good work

#127 6 years ago

Photo...ill get it rotated tmrw

IMG-20130801-01580.jpg

#128 6 years ago

Light bulbs... should I be using 44 or 47? Also does any one know what those monster light bulbs under the fire and power on the playfield are??

#129 6 years ago

The "monster" lamps are 89 flash lamps.

You can use either 44 or 47s for the rest for the lamps - whatever you have on hand.

viperrwk

#130 6 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

The "monster" lamps are 89 flash lamps.
You can use either 44 or 47s for the rest for the lamps - whatever you have on hand.
viperrwk

True ^^^^^

The 44's are a little brighter and hotter than the 47's.

If you are going to leave it on all the time, I'd go with 47's to reduce heat behind plastics and behind the painted backglass. If you are like every other home pinball user, it will probably only be on for short periods of time so the "heat" is less of a long term issue. If you really want to reduce heat and energy consumption, and make the colors of the inserts really pop, go with LED's. Match the color of the bulbs to the colors of the inserts. Use warm whites for general illumination or get creative and use some color around the General Illumination areas. pinballbulbs.com has great prices on quality bulbs. pinballlife.com has good led's too. Cointaker.com has a kit if you want to go that way. They are known for their good quality too.

#131 6 years ago

Thanks viperwk and Pafasa... I live like 5 miles from pinballlife so I am going to head up there on my lunch break and grab some bulbs and misc. items (and i get to play a few games!!!).. I had no idea pinballlife was so close to me until like 3 months ago!

#132 6 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

Thanks viperwk and Pafasa... I live like 5 miles from pinballlife so I am going to head up there on my lunch break and grab some bulbs and misc. items (and i get to play a few games!!!).. I had no idea pinballlife was so close to me until like 3 months ago!

Lucky You. Make sure to attend the party they throw during Expo!

#133 6 years ago

CONGRATS on bringing Firepower back to life!! Saving a pinball machine from the dump gives you mucho Pinball Karma.

#134 6 years ago

Replaced 21 bulbs on playfield (top+underneath), new sleeve+springs for ball shooter, and got all switches working tonight...

IMG-20130801-01590.jpg

#135 6 years ago

Light bulbs... should I be using 44 or 47? Also does any one know what those monster light bulbs under the fire and power on the playfield are??

You can go nuts and LED it like I did. More money than you might want to spend though.

image.jpg

#136 6 years ago

So my 1000 bonus light does not work... it looks like lights 1000 - 1000 all have wires that come to them and then a small ??? (diode or resistor???) Does any one know what these are... My 1000 bonus is missing one and I assume this is why it does not work.

Also, Same thing for the 89 bulbs. If i put the two 89 bulbs in the FIRE and POWER will stay lit up the whole time you play. I put a burnt out 89 bulb back in and now the other two 47 lights will light up only when you activate either FIRE or POWER(Believe that is how it is suppose to work?)

Anyone know... Is the an underneath playfield drawing somewhere?
Thanks
Dan

#137 6 years ago

dtown... why you showing up my photo (taken with a top of the line blackberry) with that beautiful photo of your machine... That really looks nice!!! I stopped by pinball life and was think about some LED's but I decided to just put in some bulbs to get everything working first... Maybe down the road... THey just got a FLASH in and I am hoping he installs all LEDs so I Can sse how and early Williams SS looks like compared to the three I have at home but judging by your photo it would look awesome.

#138 6 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

So my 1000 bonus light does not work... it looks like lights 1000 - 1000 all have wires that come to them and then a small ??? (diode or resistor???) Does any one know what these are... My 1000 bonus is missing one and I assume this is why it does not work.
Also, Same thing for the 89 bulbs. If i put the two 89 bulbs in the FIRE and POWER will stay lit up the whole time you play. I put a burnt out 89 bulb back in and now the other two 47 lights will light up only when you activate either FIRE or POWER(Believe that is how it is suppose to work?)
Anyone know... Is the an underneath playfield drawing somewhere?
Thanks
Dan

It's a diode. You'll need that for the lamp to light properly and not cause problems with the other lamps. You can pick it up at RS - 1n4004.

If the 89 bulbs are lit all the time either you have a bad solenoid transistor at Q43 on the driver board or the resistor board under the playfield is somehow shorted. I'll have to see if I can find a pic for you.

viperrwk

#139 6 years ago

viperrwk... Should there be a diode on the 89 bulbs as well? Because there is not one on either bulb assembly.

Thanks
Dan

#140 6 years ago

Also, question viperrwk... How was i suppose to know that diode was a 1n4004... These are obviously old and i could not make anything out on them but is there a drawing or general part list for Williams where I could have found this out myself? Or is this one of those general things you pick up over time? Dan

#141 6 years ago

1N4004 are a standard diode used all throughout pins in the lamp and switch matrixes. Most of us have a LOT on hand.

As for your #89 question, I do not have my prints with me but if you look in yours you should see the flasher circuits. I can't remember if there is a diode on those, but I know that like all flashers circuits you have a bit of logic to turn on (ground) one side of the bulb and a voltage source to the other. In a lot of flasher circuits they also have whats called a warming circuit to keep a small amount of current going through the bulb so turning it one will be faster and less harsh on the filament. That would be those big square ceramic resistor pairs you see mounted not far from the bulbs.

If a bulb is not turning off then that means the logic that pulls the ground side down to turn it on, is stuck on (likely) and/or in the case of flashers the warming circuit is drawing too much current (less likely).

With the #89 bulbs installed do the turn on as soon as power is on? Or only after do they flash once do they stick on? Do they stay on after game over?

Where you have multiple lights stuck on, look at the transistor that drives this circuit, is it shared with another lamp?

#142 6 years ago
Quoted from danczaz:

Also, question viperrwk... How was i suppose to know that diode was a 1n4004... These are obviously old and i could not make anything out on them but is there a drawing or general part list for Williams where I could have found this out myself? Or is this one of those general things you pick up over time? Dan

Go back to second post in this thread. The links there should be your bible. No diode on the flash lamps - just the resistor board under the playfield.

As for parts listings, bookmark this page as well:

http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1980/index.html

Some of this stuff will become second nature to you over time.

viperrwk

#143 6 years ago

Thanks guys.. I'll have to take a look when i get home tonight at ll that is mentionned above.

#144 6 years ago

Went to radio shack after work and grabbed a few 1N4004. Got that soldered in and the 1000 light now works... took a look at the 89 bulbs and think there is that warming circuit you mentionned and the big resistor looks shot... ill look at what i have in way of drawings but someone feel free to chime in if they know what that resistor is...(see photo)

Now second photo... went to replace the bulbs behind the backglass (first my displays for player /credit starts acting up and bottom line in display dissappeared) and noticed a small amount of smoke coming from the display board.... closer look like someone made some temporary fixes... got to pull out drawings and see what's going on.....
Dan

IMG-20130802-01595.jpg IMG-20130802-01591.jpg

#145 6 years ago

Found everything I need for the master display and saw viperrwk thread too... could still use some help on identifying those resistors above for the 89 bulbs and if they should have a diodes too..?

#146 6 years ago

No diodes on the flashlamps.

The big resistor on that board is a 330 ohm 2 watt. Looks shot. Replace with a 5 watt equivalent. Or if you install LED flashlamps just cut it off. That is the warming resistor. The small resistor is 1 ohm 1/2 watt.

viperrwk

#147 6 years ago

My tip for bulbs. Pull them all in a small parts container and run them through the dishwasher gentle cycle air dry. Take them out dry them immediately and inspect. Any lamps with blackened or mirrored glass toss out. Then give each 44/47 a gentle twist. Any where the glass turns separate from the base toss out. Lastly check the remaining bulbs with a meter. Any that fail a continuity test throw out. What you will have left are the bulbs you want in the machine and they will shine like new. Right as you go to reinstall use qtips to clean inside every insert. On a machine like FP this process will make it look better than just putting in LEDs. And you may want to run the bulbs in the dishwasher when the wife/SO is not around.

viperrwk

#149 6 years ago

Well I wish that master display didn't start smoking...tried to replace those resistors but not working properly.. I see why previous person must have done what they did...might need to look for master display or try and rig this like previous guy did....here are the as they were photos... hmmmmmm...

IMG-20130803-01605.jpg IMG-20130803-01607.jpg IMG-20130803-01608.jpg

#150 6 years ago

Any recommendation where I should buy a new/refurbish master display board....dan

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 14.99
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Other
Siegecraft Electronics
$ 14.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
$ 22.00
$ 17.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 9.00
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 3.00
Playfield - Decals
Doc's Pinball Shop
$ 299.00
From: $ 48.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinWorlds
There are 216 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside