(Topic ID: 218164)

Please Help – I don’t understand Williams Diagnostics


By oldschoolbob

1 year ago



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#1 1 year ago

I’ve worked on many Stern and Bally games. If it don’t boot you count the flashes and that gives you a general idea of where the problem might be. On Williams it basically says to replace the CPU board or replace the driver board. I can’t seem to find any information on booting problems.

I’m working on a Williams Flash (system 4). When I turn it on I get one flash on the LEDs – no displays. When I press the diagnostics button on the CPU I get two flashes. Where do I go from here?

Thanks

Bob

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#3 1 year ago

Williams doesn't do any diagnostics at boot up. The leds start on, and as soon as the CPU starts running it turns them off (like the initial flicker on ballys). Any number of issues can stop it from actually booting fully and getting to attract mode, or it could just be something with your displays.

Two flashes when pressing the button means the self test passed. It still misses a lot of issues though, but a good sign.

#4 1 year ago

WMS built in diag is pretty limited and the board needs to boot up somewhat to use it (ie has to read the software ROM before diag). If the board is not somewhat booting up the diag button may give you erroneous results and that confuses people. Make sure the coin door is open when pushing the diag button or you get a CMOS ram failure diag code.

If that board set is locked up and the PS is good I would investigate the ROM sockets and interconnect. When I used to fix these boards 90% of boards like yours (not corroded, but not booting) would come to life after I put in all new IC sockets and header pins/interconnect. BTW you have a sys 6 version (green rom) of flash. I would ditch the five ROM setup and go to the three ROM setup (Flipper ROMs stay, Game ROM goes on a 2716 and set at IC14).

You can get test ROMs that allow you to boot up only the MPU on the bench. Some of the test ROMs require building extra diag boards. I always used Andre's ROM just because I was familiar with how it ran. I hear Maralb made a good one too, but i have never tried it.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from barakandl:

You can get test ROMs that allow you to boot up only the MPU on the bench. Some of the test ROMs require building extra diag boards. I always used Andre's ROM just because I was familiar with how it ran. I hear Maralb made a good one too, but i have never tried it.

Leon's is a great beginner rom to just make sure all the inputs are working and the board boots. Andre's is very useful once you know how to use it, but it's hard to learn how to use it on a non-working board sadly.

#6 1 year ago

Thanks guys,

I noticed the batteries were not located as I have seen on other systems 4's. I just finished a Blackout (system 6) and this board looks the same. I have crappy schematics for the Flash - would the Blackout schematics be the same for this game?

My plan is to replace the headers, connectors, interconnect, IC sockets, and the Vids guide stuff. But first I wanted to see it come to life.

I thought two flashes in diagnostics was a good sign but that don't tell me much.

Would the fact that it's not booting keep the displays from working or is that a separate problem? I feel I'm in the dark without the displays.

I've never used test ROMs before. Don't know where to start. Maybe I should learn. What ROM do you guys recommend for a start?

Andrew, I'm out of NVRAMs (these things are GREAT). I'll be ordering some soon along with a Stern power supply and other stuff.

Thanks

Bob

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Would the fact that it's not booting keep the displays from working or is that a separate problem? I feel I'm in the dark without the displays.

If it doesn't boot the displays definitely won't work.

Quoted from oldschoolbob:

What ROM do you guys recommend for a start?

I'd get a copy of leon's and andre's. start with leons, make sure you can get it flashing, then use andre's for more detailed testing as needed.

Quoted from oldschoolbob:

I noticed the batteries were not located as I have seen on other systems 4's. I just finished a Blackout (system 6) and this board looks the same. I have crappy schematics for the Flash - would the Blackout schematics be the same for this game?

The boards are compatible, but the parts won't be quite the same. I'd just find schematics for whatever version board you have and use them

#8 1 year ago

Today I moved the Blackout out of the repair area and moved in the Flash.

I guess I can't expect the displays to work if there's no fuse. I didn't have a 1/4 amp SB but I put in a 3/4 SB. I'll order some fuses. The displays work now - well 2 displays any way. The master display and player 1.

Where do you suggest getting ROMs? I don't have a ROM burner so I need the whole ROM. Do they come with instructions?

#9 1 year ago

Instructions and rom images are available online. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wms-sys-3-7-andre-test-rom-usage-video-v2

If you're getting digits on the display it sounds like it may be booting then. What are they outputting? It may just be the dead battery/audits reset version number, in which case putting in some batteries and scrolling through the audits should allow you to boot into attract mode

#10 1 year ago

Sounds like it's booting into audit mode which is good.

Open the coin door. Power cycle a couple times rapidly is another trick to see if you get attract mode. If so the mpu is probably working fine.

When in attract mode you can hit the coin door button to get to test mode. Like your blackout.

Don't have to change the roms if it is booting and stable. Just a single game rom vs three game roms is easier if you have to replace ic sockets. If you are booting you don't have to fuss with a test rom either unless you want to.

#11 1 year ago

Still getting only one flash on the LEDs when I turn it on. And no attract mode.

The displays don't work very well. I get "_ 0 _ 0 0" on the ball count display. When I hit the advance button on the coin door the last two digits go to 35 then each press changes the last two up to 35 then back to 00 then 01 etc. Sometimes the third digit flickers to what looks like 04.

When I hit the Diagnostic switch on the MPU I get two flashes and the displays go blank.

I can't put in batteries because the holder is pretty trashed. One of the terminals is eaten away. If the batteries are keeping it from booting I guess I could rig up some jumpers and a battery holder.

I plan to change the IC sockets. If changing to a single ROM is easy, I will probably go that way. Saves changing two sockets.

Bob
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#12 1 year ago

By the way, I don't have a fuse in F4 for the flippers. It calls for a 10 amp slow blow and I only have a 10 amp fast blow.

Would the missing fuse make a difference in booting?

Bob

EDIT: I don't have a schematic for the Flash power supply board. I looked at the Blackout schematic and it shows 10 amp fuse at F4. But then I read in the Flash manual that F4 is not used. So I guess F4 don't need a fuse.

#13 1 year ago

That fuse wouldn't affect anything. You should only get the one flash for a successful boot. Did you try the turning off and on quickly?

Might as well install a remote battery holder now anyway.

#14 1 year ago

Did you try opening the coin door and then pushing the CPU button?

#15 1 year ago

open the coin door and power cycle rapidly a few times. If it hits attract mode your MPU is booting and is in good shape (sounds like it is).

from there use the coin door button to get into test mode and see whats up.

#16 1 year ago

Finally got to the shop this afternoon. Turned on the game and all I get on the display is x0xx00. Still missing the third digit. I re-seated the display connectors and tried again. Now I get x04x00. Good sign. I run through the advance button several times - turn it off - then on again. Still x04x00 and no attract mode.

Then I put together a battery pack and connect it with jumpers (I plan to use NVRAM later). Turn it on and run through the advance button again - turn it off - then on again and it goes into attract mode. I add a few credits and start a game. Most everything works. But the main thing is IT WORKS!. Now I can pull the boards and start bullet proofing everything.

The part that confuses me is this game the LEDs flash once then off. On my Blackout they flash twice.

Thanks everyone for all your input and advice.

Bob

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

On my Blackout they flash twice.

They shouldn't...

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