(Topic ID: 44373)

Please Explain Pinball Prices - System 11 machines vs. newer stuff & MM, MB, etc

By too-many-pins

11 years ago


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    Topic poll

    “Choice with $15K to spend on pins”

    • One high end machine 6 votes
      6%
    • Two or Three mid range machines 49 votes
      45%
    • 8 to 12 System 9 & 11 machines or other multi ramp machines 42 votes
      39%
    • 20+ cheaper but fun EM's & 1980's SS machines including a couple cheaper DMD machines 12 votes
      11%

    (109 votes)

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    There are 73 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 11 years ago

    MM might be #1 on pinside, but it's actually #3 on IPDB:
    http://www.ipdb.org

    STTNG and TZ topple it, yet they are 1/2 to 1/3 the price

    #52 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Still not one reply from MM owners telling me why MM is worth the money?

    I only sold my MM a few months ago.

    I told you why it's worth the money; if you have the money to blow.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    MM is not THAT great of a machine, it's true.

    But it's silly, so women and kids like it.

    It's very Monty Python, so old guys like it.

    It's easy to nuke a castle and feel like you have accomplished something, so beginners like it.

    And finally, it's a low production game that people can brag about, so braggers like it.

    #53 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Still not one reply from MM owners telling me why MM is worth the money?

    Yawn.....
    Why is someone willing to pay big bucks for a collectible stamp or piece of art? maybe its because they like it! More power to them if it floats their boat.
    Maybe you like fat chicks good for you! I am not going to demand you explain why you
    like fat chicks - like away who freakin cares.
    Honestly I wouldn't give a squirt of piss for the old games you like and collect, but you know what
    I think it's cool that you like them and I completely respect that!
    Play what you like dude and everyone else will do the same.
    If we all liked the exact same things the world would be a pretty boring place don't you think?

    #54 11 years ago

    Thanks Honch. Honestly audio is pretty far down the list on a games consideration. I listen to it the first couple weeks and then I turn it down. My jukebox is usaully in action and Id rather hear that over the games anyways. I will say that I have a subwoofer in WW. When the lightning goes off and the game rumbles from the thunder, is my favorite effect. The artwork on the early 80s stuff is amazing. Games like Medusa, Paragon, Centaur, Fathom are fun too look at and play.

    #55 11 years ago

    Thanks Honch. Honestly audio is pretty far down the list on a games consideration. I listen to it the first couple weeks and then I turn it down. My jukebox is usaully in action and Id rather hear that over the games anyways. I will say that I have a subwoofer in WW. When the lightning goes off and the game rumbles from the thunder, is my favorite effect. The artwork on the early 80s stuff is amazing. Games like Medusa, Paragon, Centaur, Fathom are fun too look at and play.

    #56 11 years ago

    Thanks Honch. Honestly audio is pretty far down the list on a games consideration. I listen to it the first couple weeks and then I turn it down. My jukebox is usaully in action and Id rather hear that over the games anyways. I will say that I have a subwoofer in WW. When the lightning goes off and the game rumbles from the thunder, is my favorite effect. The artwork on the early 80s stuff is amazing. Games like Medusa, Paragon, Centaur, Fathom are fun too look at and play.

    #57 11 years ago

    Let me try asking the question a different way. Do people that own machines costing over say $5000 own them because the can or because they are actually better games somehow in their eyes?

    And if they feel as though they are 5 times better than a $1000 to $2000 machine then just let me know what makes them so good.

    If I ask this same question about cars I can somewhat understand why some people are willing to pay 3 times as much for a fancy car. With a car there is a huge difference between a low end model and a luxury car and some people feel as though that luxury car is worth the difference in price.

    But when talking about pinball machines I just don't get it with some of the high end machines. A lot of them actually don't seem near as good as stuff you can buy for much less money to me. So for the people who own these "higher end machines" is it more about bragging rights or is there something they really like about those machines.

    Putting it another way - if someone has room for say a dozen machines and has $30K to spend on pinball. Forgetting about "investment value" and just talking about gameplay. Would 12 machines in the $750 to $2500 price range make more sense then having 2 or 3 "A" list titles and why.

    I understand you should buy what you like - Everyone likes something different - etc. I am just trying to get my head around paying over $10K for one machine when you could have 4 or 5 machines for that same money. I just think having more machines would be more fun.

    The more the "higher end" machines keep going up in price the better it makes cheaper machines look in my eyes. But again - just my way of looking at things and I keep wondering what others are thinking on this subject.

    #58 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Still not one reply from MM owners telling me why MM is worth the money?

    Why would we?

    The only reason i own mine is because I bought mine at about 2/3 market value and it still hurt to do so. I haven't sold it because i still like playing it, so do my kids, wife and infrequent guests. If someone made me a crazy offer for it, I honestly don't think i could sell. That IS NOT an invitation to make an offer.

    Anyone who mentions "bashing the castle gets old" has no grasp on the ruleset. To me, the game is about stacking all five of the madnesses (actually all four with trolls let to extend the multi), running through all the super jackpots during castle multiball a few times, battling for the kingdom, & completing royal madness. Barnyard multiball is just a cute little extra to amuse but hard(ish) to get. Beating the castles is just a means to complete BFTK.

    #59 11 years ago

    The reason I think DMD games are far superior isn't the fact that they have a DMD but
    that the rules are much deeper and much more strategy is involved to score well (for the
    most part).

    I couldn't justify paying 'the tax' to own a MM, but I understand why so many love it.

    Almost every SYS11 game has one shot that you can shoot over and over again and just
    basically ignore the rest of the playfield and still end up with a good score.

    For example, Police Force. To score well on the game, there is no reason to shoot anything
    but the centre ramp over and over again. Earthshaker is the same way, shoot the centre
    ramp, get to 99 miles and then.......... you guessed it pump the centre ramp for the end
    of the road bonuses.

    Buy and play what you like. You think A list DMD's are a waste of money, that's cool. I
    think System 11's are boring and in my small collection I couldn't justify dedicating any
    space to them because they a just too shallow for me.

    #60 11 years ago

    You can't simply look at it as 'do I want 12 older ss games or 4 top titles?'. I think most look at it more like 'I have SPACE for 6 games, so do I want 6 older ss games, 6 A titles, or a mix of both?'. The older games will always have their place, but there's something to be said for the deeper games where you don't see everything the game has to offer in the first 1 or 2 plays after you bring it home.

    Brian

    #61 11 years ago
    Quoted from RJW:

    Buy and play what you like. You think A list DMD's are a waste of money, that's cool. I
    think System 11's are boring and in my small collection I couldn't justify dedicating any
    space to them because they a just too shallow for me.

    +1

    #62 11 years ago

    A mix of both sys 11 and dmd titles is best. A collection needs diversity.

    #63 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Still not one reply from MM owners telling me why MM is worth the money?

    I don't own one but I'd guess the answer is they really like it, wanted it, and didn't sweat the cost. Everybody likes different things. Everybody has different amounts of money to spend. I'd never pay market value for a MM but that's only because it's not worth the money to me. I may pay market value for a MB someday though. I'm sure others will think I'm nuts if I do.

    #64 11 years ago

    More people like those games, so more people want to buy them, so the prices are higher (is this really so mystifying?). Your tastes are different than the majority.

    #65 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Do people that own machines costing over say $5000 own them because the can or because they are actually better games somehow in their eyes?

    Probably both. My Monster Bash gets a lot of mileage at gatherings, which makes it worth it to me. I should note, I didn't pay 5K for mine. Besides, how many other collectibles can you actually use and not devalue it as long as you take care of it? BTW, I love system 11 pins, so I think it's all all good

    #66 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    So for the people who own these "higher end machines" is it more about bragging rights or is there something they really like about those machines.

    Why is it that many people just assume that people with "higher end machines" only have them for bragging rights? Can't it be that they just happen to really like the game and are fortunate enough to afford the market value?

    #67 11 years ago

    ^^^

    while not true of all (seems like some play the heck out of them), it's not uncommon to read posts from people who own these machines that make it appear they only own them for the "status"... statements along the lines of "very few plays", etc. would appear to back that up...

    #68 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Let me try asking the question a different way. Do people that own machines costing over say $5000 own them because the can or because they are actually better games somehow in their eyes?

    Why pick on the high-end titles? There are plenty of great DMDs under $2500, e.g. DH and JM. Now the "fun/$" competition gets more interesting. I used to be a system 11 bigot too, but once I discovered the better depth and audio of DMDs, I realized that variety is good. I still wouldn't mind picking up a nice F14 or Bad Cats, though.

    The worst thing about system 11 pins is that there's no clearcoat. And when you take off the mylar, you typically lose a lot of the insert lettering. If you're lucky, you can buy insert decals for your game. What a pain. That's why CPR is making playfields mostly for 80's pins - there are way more trashed sys11's in need of a new playfield than DMDs.

    #69 11 years ago

    I also have been a collector of class 3 NFA registered machine guns the pic below shows an NFA registered HK auto sear. No individual can own a sear unless it was registered before May 1986. I got into the hobby in the early 90's at that time the sear pictured was around $500 keep in mind the sear shown is Roughly .03 cents worth of metal, but there are only so many of them availible. That same sear now is $12,000+ if you can find one! Ounce for ounce that sear is more than 20 times more valuable than gold.
    Who buys them? People who want them, like them and can afford them!
    I highly doubt any one paying 14k for an MM took food off their family's table to make the purchase.
    So to sum it up why does anything cost what it costs? It's not complicated. I am not sure why some just cant seem to grasp it.

    Supply and demand explained (again)

    If demand drops, then the quantity supplied is in excess (a surplus) and the price and supply will drop until equilibrium is reestablished. Conversely, if demand rises, then the quantity supplied is insufficient (a shortage) and the price and supply will rise until equilibrium is reached again.

    Except in the case of Auto sears & MM's there is no more new supply...

    image.jpgimage.jpg

    #70 11 years ago

    To all who have replied I have enjoyed everyone's take on this subject. I was mainly interested in poll results on this one more so than the text. And the poll shows the majority of people here would prefer several decent machines over one or two "great titles". (Great meaning overpriced titles in my opinion - but everyone has to figure that out - or decide on for themselves).

    I fully understand free market and why prices are what they are - a price of an item is not determined by a seller or a buyer - a price is set by supply and demand in a free market society. (Yes you can get a great deal by finding someone with something under priced and getting it before they realize this is the case. You can also over pay for something thinking demand is higher than what it really is. But overall free market sets the prices when buying & selling in a free market system).

    Thanks to all that have posted and I'll keep reading as new post appear. But everyone reading this please understand the most important thing about the pinball hobby is there is plenty to enjoy regardless of your budget and for those on a tight budget there are plenty of great machines for under $750.

    Everyone that has space and wants to get into the hobby CAN afford it. You just need to start with machines in your price range and work your way up as money and space allows. You don't need $5K or more to get a machine that is loads of fun. And anyone who says they can't even afford a $500 to $750 machine just give up something else you really don't need like that $2 cup of coffee on your way to work in the morning and you will be shocked how fast you can afford your first machine.

    #71 11 years ago

    My $15k lineup would be a mix
    - a NIB $5k pin, Predator... alternatively ACDC Pro
    - a recent relatively inexpensive Stern (say $2.5k for a WPT)
    - 2-3 Zaccaria generation 2 (say: Pinball Champ, Farfalla, Locomotion... may rotate)
    - As many EM as I can!

    #72 11 years ago

    For $15k I'd get games from every era. You can easily spread that amongst two each of modern Stern, Sys 9/11's, B/W, EM, probably put one or two Sega/DE's in there, leaving you with a nicely varied 8 pin lineup. People who dump it all in 1 pin either want it for a show piece or they already have another half dozen games. And lets face it, that one MM will most likely provide more annual return than that whole 8 pin lineup, but won't be nearly as fun.

    #73 11 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Come on guys! Please explain this to me - I just really don't get it? Why are most System 11 machines still under $1500 in nice shape and yet people are paying $12K to $15K for am MM?

    I know I get more fun out of my diner than I do on a mm for a bomb less

    There are 73 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

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