I get just as much enjoyment from my BK2K as I do from TOTAN that is in my basement.

I would get the System 11's. Love them!

Chris

I would love a handful of system 11's , hard to find here though.

Shhhhhhhhhhh you'll ruin it

MM is more collectible. Pretty simple, people will spend that because it's a good game and they expect it to appreciate in value. I'm in your boat though, I'd rather a mix of mid range and older games

Some people love sys11 (or sys6-9), some only like a few DMD titles.

Some buy expensive games and never play them.

Some randomly buy games until they run out of room.

Some only buy Space, cowboy, card, or carnival themed games.

For the same reason some people will pay $800 for a Galaga. I'm with you, I love the Sys 11 games, and I also own a lot of higher end WPC games. I can have a rocking game on Police Force and shrug and Cactus Canyon. Know what I played tonight? Gottlieb Dragon.

I really enjoy the SS games. Happy to because they cost WAY less than DMD games.

I play my Mata Hari and FirePower more than anything right now.

Sorry Im in the 15k vote. My reason, I have limited space and i rather fill it with 8-12 high end pins, not 8-12 IMO "so so" pins. I have only played about 10 EM games, and none of them really interested me. Im 6 months into this hobby, 23 years old and in Australia. Pins aren't necessarily hard to get, but its definitely not as easy going as it is in the states. I didn't grow up with any pins really, i just found a LOTR and that was it. As for the bragging? I don't know any people on pinside IRL, and my mates think im retarded. I am too ashamed to tell them the real price i pay for my pins. I tell them they are worth about 3k and still i get stupid looks. God forbid if my gf found out the true cost. I just really enjoy pinball and only my 2 younger brother agrees with me on that.

No DMD = Lower Price. Simple as that. I'm not saying it's "right" but it's the way it is.

Most people never get to play perfectly restored older games and therefore base alot of their opinion on poor examples of older games where as the newer game by virtue of it being newer is typically in better shape and plays better. What I find is people gravitate to older games when they are in immaculate perfect condition much more then DMD's. You have to want to put 500-1000 dollars into an older game knowing you will not get that money back out. But.....Much more satisfying. And to those with limited space. I disagree that you have to have A-list DMD's because of limited space. I would be bored to death with such a set up. That is why we have opinions and options.

Classic Stern Junk

FH, SOF, WW each beg to differ. (priced higher than most GB dmd's)
FH especially. Prices for that are interesting.

Look at my collection ... When people come to my place, all they want to play is my Sys11 games.

Everyone has an Addams, TZ, MM, all the usuals.

But nobody has sys11. And that's they way I like it.

rd.

Obviously system 11 games are very popular. I have been wanting a BK2K in the worst way and have it plastered everywhere here. Most replies I get are, I will keep my eyes open, but your not getting mine. Go figure. I have a WW I deem worthy of a full restore even though I will lose money on it.(have CPR playfield and plastics on order). They may not demand the price, but they are loved just as much. I am gravitating towards the system 11 games more and more now. Would love to find a nice Space Station to add to the collection also.

FH and BOP are not System 11 games, they are alpha-numeric WPC games.

I really like having a handfull of sys 11 pins in my mostly DMD collection as they are a lot of fun. Finding really nice examples of the more desirable sys 11 titles is even more difficult than finding nice DMD games, and they can be more work to restore because the playfields and cabinets really get beat over the years.

Just wait another year or two, you will see $2k earthshakers and $1500 black knights. Heck, funhouse is already a $3-$5k machine and it doesn't have a DMD

Never said they were Sys 11's.

..No DMD

I have enjoyed playing pinball for most of my life, but have only had the funds to own pins more recently. IMO system 11 games are just not as fun as the newer DMD games, and I would rather save up my money and buy A-list pins. The A-list pins have better shots, more sophisticated toys and sound effects, and typically better artwork on the cabinets. Again, just my opinion, no offense to everyone that likes their classics. With that said the prices for pins are absurd!

Most were under $1000 not that long ago.

-Mark

I love the 80's music and bands which will never return just like the 90's area version of pins. On a side note don't care much for the 90's music movement. It's like a Nintendo gaming system only and not going forward with a Playstation in the 90's. After Playstation 2 and 3 there were not that many big differences. Relate this to pinball by liking the 80's system 11 of going for more DMR classic 90's area of Bally Williams Data East. Then advance to year 2000 plus where pinball has not really advanced just like the gaming systems. Classics rule. Sure there are some new features that are great today on new games but it is not a big a jump as from 80's to 90's. Meaning 2000 to 2010 has not made me want to jump to new style games until I see more results and creativity. Hard to type what I am trying to explain.

i'd get 12 DE's before 1 high end machine. for 15k you could easily get 10 very fun DMD's if you open your mind outside the new sterns or Bally williams mindset.

Some of what you have said is true to an extent, but based on the prices of older games that came before the system 11 games, and the games before that, Im not sure. You can buy a 50's or 60's game cheap, and the prices go up from there. Its all about fun factor, to rarity, to demand. If a 25 year old played games from different eras, what game would he/she most enjoy? That is where the greatest increase or least decrease in price will be in 10/20 years. Unless there is a huge change in location games being somewhere other then bars.

A lot has to do with your wallet but there are so many other factors. System 11s were what me and friends played in the arcades. If you like working on machines, the platform is fairly easy to work on and pretty reliable too.

I'm getting old, my reflexes just are not what they used to be. While I like modern DMDs to play occasionally, most of these games tire me out they are so fast. System 11s are more to my pace, and if I want a fast challenge I play my F-14

#1

Also many like me don't have room for 10 to 12 games.. I have room for only 3
That said the 3 games I have will always be 3 games I like very much regardless of cost.

Long live Sys 11s! I love them and hope to add more. There's a lot of great games out there that are still reasonably priced. I'm happy to let others play top dollar for the MMs, AFMs, CCs and MBs of the world as I pick up the lonely B/W sleepers, choice DEs and Sys 11s for 1/5th the price.

DMDs are pretty cool but they just dont have the feel of the SS and sys11 machines the older machines relied on more game play features and fine artwork vs the toys on dmds.
I think sys11 machines have the best lightshows of all the pins and SS 80-82 ballys have the nicest art out of any of the pinballs.
I like afm cv, mm etc just dont think they are worth the prices for a machine that i will get bored with in a few months.
I like to save and restore the classics that dont seem to get the love they should becouse they are older and dont have a dmd display, honestly the display is the least of my concerns when im playing lol

I was making a generalization and those non-dmds are the exceptions, not the rule. They don't even come close to the highest priced dmds. Let's compare apples to apples when comparing our apples and oranges.

I think a lot of it is bragging rights, but I do prefer DMD games myself and am in the broke collectors club so I tend to go after the Gottlieb, DE and Sega games and love them. Alot of sys 11 games are in rough shape due to age and popularity while most of my stuff is in great shape and dependable.

Pin-Bot is one of my favorite games, but there are TONS of them and the game gets repetitive for some people, as do many sys11 games. When other games offer way more depth at a 3K price point, it's no wonder the value of sys11 games stay where they are. There is also way more supply than demand - sys11 production run numbers for nearly every title are outstanding and the hardware (aside from the GI connectors) was built to last.

Depth really is the deciding factor here though. Look at a game like T2 - a Dot Matrix WPC game that hovers in the $1000 - $1500. Same exact reason - the depth doesn't satisfy the masses and there is an outrageous number of them available. Sys11 games fall into this category WITHOUT the ever-worshipped DMD.

For a lot of people, it's the fact they don't quite have the "classic" feel, yet they don't quite have the "modern" sleekness. This is coming from a die hard sys11 fan, but I'm just being realistic about their popularity.

-BB

"bragging rights" is a lot of the reason shitty games command way more money than they are worth. I run my collection by diversity and what I like. I could give a crap if anyone is impressed by my collection or not. There's my top 30, and that is what determines if a game gets valuable pin real estate or not.

I would buy 6-9 games with that money with most if not all being DMD games.

I really like some alpha numeric pins and even some EM games but overall the DMD games last longer as far as entertainment value goes.

It's not DMD, WPC, etc. It's all about the titles. Some titles are hot. There are somewhat inexpensive WPC games like NBAFB, JD, JM, Congo, Demo Man to name a few. If you focus on the top pins like MM, AFM, MB, TZ, TAF, etc then yes they are expensive, especially a low play original game or high-end restored. Here are some examples of games that are comparatively more expensive than other titles made during the same time frame...

Slick Chick
King of Diamonds
Royal Flush
Jacks Open
El Dorado
Captain Fantastic
Eight Ball Deluxe
Fathom
Black Knight
Black Knight 2000
Whirlwind
Earthshaker
Diner
EATPM
Cyclone

That's just a few off the top of my head, but a super sweet example of any of those titles can often sell for well over $3K when other titles made the same year can go for $300-600. Consider yourself fortunate if you really enjoy the lesser expensive titles. Nothing wrong with that.

I owned one for about 4 months. It's fun, but I couldn't justify keeping a 8K game in my house if it was the least played pin I own. If it was a 4k pin, I'd still have it.

I had my MM for 3 months and even at $5500 price tag it wasn't worth keeping. It's about 49th on my list. Maybe lower, i'll have to write up my list beyond 30 and see where it falls.

Well, in northern California I see no nice System 11 games for <$1500 on any kind of regular basis.

Now they occasionally show up, but in my experience, it's not normal.

Seems like all games are more in Cali, probably due to having to ship them in from elsewhere; so a $1200 game instantly becomes (costs) $1600.

Then given the somewhat shady people that over sell their game's condition, the $1600 game you can see/touch/feel, becomes worth more like $2k.

Robert

Agreed. It's the old "bird in hand" proverb.

MM is not THAT great of a machine, it's true.

But it's silly, so women and kids like it.

It's very Monty Python, so old guys like it.

It's easy to nuke a castle and feel like you have accomplished something, so beginners like it.

And finally, it's a low production game that people can brag about, so braggers like it.

Good point.. I play more HS and WW then any of my dmd games such as AFM and MB. DMDs are actually being phased out of my collection at this point. I am down to just 3 out of 11. It wasnt a plan it just sort of happened that way. I buy and keep what I like.

Nice collection. You have a little bit of everything.

I love my system 11 pins, but DMDs have better audio, deeper rules, and can usually be found in better condition. So it makes sense to me that system 11's are stuck in the $800-1500 range. I know I'm "upside-down" in my Space Station and Whirlwind, but that's OK.

I would suggest you buy whatever you enjoy most! Whatever will give you and your family the most enjoyment!

DMD pins have a DMD, which is worth $$ & is a nice extra feature. Also any DMD since 1993 has much higher quality DCS sound.
As much as I love some system 11's, they have neither of these features & while the sound can be pretty cool & I love the sound & music of my BK2K, it would certainly only be that much better if it were DCS quality.

Hey, system 11's are like early man. That missing link between how things are today, & how things were long ago. They are stuck in the middle. & it just so happens that the prices are also somewhere in the middle.
Makes sense to me.
Also, don't forget that many system 11's were beaten to death on location & didn't have diamondplate protection like DMD games have. They also have less depth & rules, which might not make them ideal for a collector who has just 1 or 2 games.