(Topic ID: 163701)

Please allow me to praise a B-list game...


By embryonjohn

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by bznhvx
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There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
19
#1 3 years ago

Before you stop reading this, imagine your childhood bedroom done up in Cowboys & Indians.
I know the stereotypes are hopelessly dated and non-PC. But allow your mind to remember the flannel sheets with horseshoes, PJ's w/sewn-in footies, blue enameled fireside cookware coffee pots and "Blazing Saddles" jokes about beans and farting...

This is what happens when I approach (Bally's 1976) Flip Flop's handsome red playfield with cattle branding artwork and clichéd characters on the joyously (Dick White) painted backglass. Come feel the Purple Mountain Majesty, without all the manifest destiny guilt.

Look. I didn't want to like this game. I thought oh geez, the Nip It! fishing goofball is now vacationing at some "City Slickers" style ranch with the Amigo guy!? How'd THEY hook up???
But if there was ever a game to make me do an about face, it's Flip Flop.
It hits me.
Holy heck! Has there ever been a game that makes you disconnect the tilt switch faster? It's all about viciously nudging a dead outlane ball back to life via some mandatory pinball CPR class and narrow shooting lanes with super fast flipping rewards. Never mind the crazy fast D.C. powered slings, pops & grand slam (4) flippers.
When the "same player shoots again" lights between the flippers, it's like I've just successfully lit a good campfire with some major staying power: oh ya, bring on the Schlitz & Dinty Moore beef stew

If you get a chance to play a dialed in Flip Flop!
Stay awhile. It's worth loading up the Vista Cruiser station wagon.

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#2 3 years ago

I want one

#3 3 years ago

Thanks for a well done and enthusiastic commentary! I have played a Flip Flop, and agree that it's a hoot.
Enjoy!

Joel

#4 3 years ago

I have owned a flip flop and it is a great game !! The artwork on the BG is excellent and the game play is pretty fun with those wild jet bumpers near the return lanes. Plus, getting special lit and collecting 2 specials on one shot is cool !!
It is a game, I would like to own again someday.

#5 3 years ago

John, if you're not a writer, you should be bud. Always a good read.

-1
#6 3 years ago

That's actually a D-list game.

And what was wrong with the reset sequence? A lot of people offered you advice and some went as far as to annotate schematics for you, would have been nice for you to tell us what the solution turned out to be.

#7 3 years ago

"Someone's gotta go back for a shit load of dimes!"

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

That's actually a D-list game.
And what was wrong with the reset sequence? A lot of people offered you advice and some went as far as to annotate schematics for you, would have been nice for you to tell us what the solution turned out to be.

I wrote Rolf a PM thanking him already and I was set to do the same this morning to you as I didn't get it 100% till real late last night. It totally blows me away how helpful you've been with your advice. I can't thank you enough. You were right, it was the damn reels all the time but it forced me to go through the entire game fixing stuff I wouldn't have, if I had found the trouble right away.

#9 3 years ago

Not leaving my collection any time soon. You like my avatar pic?

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from embryonjohn:

I wrote Rolf a PM thanking him already and I was set to do the same this morning to you as I didn't get it 100% till real late last night. It totally blows me away how helpful you've been with your advice. I can't thank you enough. You were right, it was the damn reels all the time but it forced me to go through the entire game fixing stuff I wouldn't have, if I had found the trouble right away.

I was wrong, I thought for sure it was the bonus unit.

but then again friggin Bally games are the WORST and continuously confuse me with their "logic."

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

"Someone's gotta go back for a shit load of dimes!"

#12 3 years ago

I learned today that someone thinks Flip-Flop is a B-list game; hadn't heard that before.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I learned today that someone thinks Flip-Flop is a B-list game; hadn't heard that before.

Your extensive EM ownership experience qualifies you to make that determination, I'm sure.

#14 3 years ago

Me and Flip Flop go back quite a ways, back to Junior year high school (1979). Used to go off campus (a no no) to go down the street to the local sandwich shop for lunch sometimes. They had about 3 EM pins (no SS) and a Jukebox. I only remember the one pin, Flip Flop. Had a great couple games one day on it with a buddy while listening to Rainbow's "Power" song. I definitely had the power at that moment! Came back to campus after lunch and got caught by a teach and got 1 week detention for being off campus......but it was worth it. Sandwich shop closed up senior year so that was pretty much it for the school pinball fun the rest of the year. Great pinball school memories Freshman-Junior year.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Your extensive EM ownership experience qualifies you to make that determination, I'm sure.

I'm going to stay relatively calm and ASSume you thought I was being negative whenst I was actually calling Flip-Flop a classic game above "B level," A term I don't here aboot EMs to begin with.

Here's a list of the EMs I play, but don't "own," if that doesn't meet your criteria for judging things you can go f#@& yourself.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I'm going to stay relatively calm and ASSume you thought I was being negative whenst I was actually calling Flip-Flop a classic game above "B level," A term I don't here aboot EMs to begin with.
Here's a list of the EMs I play, but don't "own," if that doesn't meet your criteria for judging things you can go f#@& yourself.

Where's the list?

Yes, I assumed that, and it's a reasonable assumption given the low marks Bally games generally get on this forum. It's changed finally, but it used to be if it wasn't a Gottlieb, it wasn't worth your time.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Where's the list?

HA! Forgot sorry

http://vfwpinball.com/?page_id=244

But yes, love me some flip flop...now please take back your thumbs down

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

given the low marks Bally games generally get on this forum.

As I have learned, some peoples ratings or marks towards games don't count on pinside. And my only guess of the reason why is if they don't conform to the norm.

#19 3 years ago

Ballys get low marks from everybody because they are designed by lunatics and the logic makes no sense, the rulesets are generally terrible and rely on chance more than skill, and they were the biggest abusers of pointy people art.

They got their act together in about 1976 but before that it was ugly, man (Fireball excluded of course).

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#20 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

They got their act together in about 1976 but before that it was ugly, man (Fireball excluded of course).

Oh, I don't know? I kind of like a lot of it.

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#21 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

HA! Forgot sorry
http://vfwpinball.com/?page_id=244
But yes, love me some flip flop...now please take back your thumbs down

Done.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Ballys get low marks from everybody because they are designed by lunatics and the logic makes no sense, the rulesets are generally terrible and rely on chance more than skill, and they were the biggest abusers of pointy people art.
They got their act together in about 1976 but before that it was ugly, man (Fireball excluded of course).

I've never found them any more difficult to work on than any other game, and I've never had any more trouble following the schematics than any other game.

I find it interesting that you exclude Fireball when that was a game that was really a slave to chance, because the rotating disc made it that way.

#23 3 years ago

I love that 90% of the forum digs Gottlieb over everything else. It makes for more Bally EM machines for me to acquire.

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#24 3 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

I love that 90% of the forum digs Gottlieb over everything else. It makes for more Bally EM machines for me to acquire.

And I get to pick all the old Williams games out of the dumpster.

#25 3 years ago

I think you guys are exaggerating. There really isn't much difference in price or demand between the "big three" when it comes to EMs these days.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

I've never found them any more difficult to work on than any other game, and I've never had any more trouble following the schematics than any other game.
I find it interesting that you exclude Fireball when that was a game that was really a slave to chance, because the rotating disc made it that way.

I'm just saying I LIKE fireball, as opposed to most of the older Bally EMs I've played.

And by "chance" I'm talking about the stupid rulesets where awards like lit extra ball cycle through the match unit, appearing and vanishing on a whim instead of being earned and staying lit. One of Harry Williams' rules of design was you don't offer a player an award and then take it away without a chance to cash it in. He was right.

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

And by "chance" I'm talking about the stupid rulesets where awards like lit extra ball cycle through the match unit, appearing and vanishing on a whim instead of being earned and staying lit. One of Harry Williams' rules of design was you don't offer a player an award and then take it away without a chance to cash it in.

There are exceptions though. Some of the real old Williams I own like Arrow Head, Serenade, and Fiesta have lighted gobble holes that rotate on and off through a stepper unit. They come and they go. The idea is to sink the putt while they are lit.

Although they are designed by Harry Mabs, I believe Harry Williams still ran the company while they were in design but it was a little before my time.

#28 3 years ago

I've always liked the art and layout on Flip Flop. I've never played one though.

#29 3 years ago

Delta Queen is a fun B list game and it was my first pin . Rule set is simple , artwork is excellent , gameplay avg. but better than Odds & Evens IMHFO

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from 1974DeltaQueen:

Delta Queen is a fun B list game and it was my first pin . Rule set is simple , artwork is excellent , gameplay avg. but better than Odds & Evens IMHFO

DQ just needed a spinner to rip. It has the right up lane for it. May need to be mod'd

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

I love that 90% of the forum digs Gottlieb over everything else. It makes for more Bally EM machines for me to acquire.

Weren't you a Gottlieb guy just a couple of years ago?

#32 3 years ago

Can't beat the artwork on Flip Flop, I just can't warm to the side drains. Guess I didn't find too many dialed in well.

Nice write-up also by Mr. EmbryonJohn.

Agree with Nayman, extra ball and specials wired to the bonus unit suck!

#33 3 years ago

I don't know if drop a card is considered B list but it's the only 2" flipper game I have out of 5 and it's my favorite. Nobody else plays it because 2" flippers is not as easy as 3" . So when it comes to A or B list to each his own

#34 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think you guys are exaggerating. There really isn't much difference in price or demand between the "big three" when it comes to EMs these days.

I'm not talking price or demand. I'm talking perception. And that perception, at least around here is that Gottliebs are better built (not in my experience) and more reliable (again, not in my experience) than the other two. I will say that I do think that overall, Gottlieb had better designs, but Williams and Bally made some really good games, and Gottlieb made some turds.

All three of them did things that make you shake your head and go WTF? For Gottlieb, it's the AS stepper, the half moon credit unit, the Ax/Bx stuff (we know why the did it, but for reliability, it hurt) etc.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from 1974DeltaQueen:

Delta Queen is a fun B list game and it was my first pin . Rule set is simple , artwork is excellent , gameplay avg. but better than Odds & Evens IMHFO

As the former owner of a O&E, I think you're damning with faint praise there...

It was a great looking game. I mean, the artwork, colors etc were just fantastic on that game. But as for game play, it was pretty blah. Just not a whole lot to do there.

I bought mine cheap and trashed and restored it and sold it on to a guy who was thrilled to get it for his grandkids to play, so I figure, it's another one saved, and that's never bad.

#36 3 years ago

Bally starts with a "B", so I guess they all qualify.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

All three of them did things that make you shake your head and go WTF? For Gottlieb, it's the AS stepper

I have seen many people state that these things are a PITA, but honestly, they really are not that big of a deal. Added bonus that they can be worked on right at my kitchen table. Is it just me?

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from SirScott:

I have seen many people state that these things are a PITA, but honestly, they really are not that big of a deal. Added bonus that they can be worked on right at my kitchen table. Is it just me?

yes, it's just you. Face it, they suck.

#39 3 years ago

The artwork on Flip Flop seems to be somewhere between Bally Amigo and Gottlieb Mustang. I have yet to venture very far into Bally EM. I have a Bally Eight Ball 1977 and my friend owns a Xenon. I love those early Bally SS.

What are some other Bally EM favorites? I'll have to keep my eyes peeled on craigslist.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Weren't you a Gottlieb guy just a couple of years ago?

I got bit by the Bally bug and have turned to the dark side.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from Rat_Tomago:

I got bit by the Bally bug and have turned to the dark side.

I'm starting to lean that way myself. Switches & score reels are MUCH easier to deal with.
Now, the crap Bally light sockets & fuse holders are another thing - but easily replaced.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

I'm starting to lean that way myself. Switches & score reels are MUCH easier to deal with.
Now, the crap Bally light sockets & fuse holders are another thing - but easily replaced.

Actually, that's another one in my book. I always read about people saying the Bally lamp sockets were crap, but I have never owned a single Gottlieb that didn't come to me with AT LEAST a dozen or more dim and failing lamp sockets that needed replacing or at least individual attention using Clay's suggested solder mods. Maybe I'm taking on some neglected machines, but IME, Gottlieb lamp sockets did not hold up either.

#43 3 years ago

Not a Bally guy too much for a few different reasons but I agree they definitely had some good games. MiniZag (1968) is a great game.

What game is the first one? Would look real pretty next to Star Jet one day.

Also, let's not forget... (Pictures from IPDB, mine is still in many different pieces)

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#44 3 years ago

I did fix a 1972 Bally Amigo for a friend though for his business that a cat lived in (which may or may not have turned me off from it, disgusting) and I can definitely say that game is not exactly a looker. Really don't like what they did with the upside down head shapes either. It's like they were trying to pull off the reverse wedgehead thing but on the wrong axis.

Now whenever I see those tiny numbered Bally reels I think of cat smell. Don't think I'd take that machine for free.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

What game is the first one? Would look real pretty next to Star Jet one day.

The first game pictured is Bally Moon Shoot. Same layout as Gottlieb's Tropic Isle. It's a tough one to find.

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

MiniZag (1968) is a great game.

Thanks for mentioning this, I need all the encouragement to get mine working that I can get!

#47 3 years ago

I said a Flip-Flop,
The flippie, the flippie,
To the flip, Flip-Flop, and you don't stop, a flop it
To the bang back flippie, say, up jump the floppie,
To the rhythm of the flippty - flop.

And Star-Jet will Rock your Jetson-world as well!

#48 2 years ago

Great write up, thanks!

On a side note...lets all agree to never ever again use A list, B list etc to reference ems.

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from presqueisle:

Great write up, thanks!
On a side note...lets all agree to never ever again use A list, B list etc to reference ems.

Deal

#50 2 years ago

Nice - I have Flip Flop and it's one of my favorite EM's. Mine is very fast and dialed in. Play is very fun. Artwork is neat too. It's a keeper game for sure.

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