Omg you guys saying the apron was one of the main reasons you jumped in on the pre order really need a beer. Like Ben said, they have to put instruction cards there as the games will be on location. Have any of you seen the new apron? I'm sure it's really nice. And you will all change your tune. Everyone's just pissed because they showed a working pin a year ago and still nothing. Man by the time some of these pins ship they already feel old. That's bad marketing .

Oh Kaneda please just don't!

I don't think that anyone has said that the apron was one of the main reasons that they bought a TBL. I certainly didn't. I did say that it was an important element in the game's artwork and was innovative.

At least we've reached the usual level of discontent where an update usually shows up soon. If they had a YouTube video of game play with call outs and everything, it would make the apron go down a little easier

I'm worried that they'll postpone an update until Expo.

I'm pretty sure EXPO will be exciting in terms of The Big Lebowski. Dutch Pinball has a scheduled presentation for Thursday night. I'm betting they don't show up with an empty cabinet......

Word is that Expo will kick off a renewed TBL marketing push. Perhaps the two games from the production photos will be there with DP and CoinTaker? One way or another, we'll know in a week.

Ahhhh to be back in Chicago ... Expo, deep dish pizza, Italian beefs, the Cubs in the playoffs, and maybe an actual final TBL!

Forget about the F&*%$&g apron! (slams diner table)

The cut out stars in the apron would require a led for each. That would require some sort of armature to hold them in place on both sides of the apron.. you have the trough to work around and who know the other headaches.. I can see why they would opt to skip it.. get some nice painted stars on there and I will be happy. I would rather see resources go towards gameplay elements. Just my thoughts, who knows the real reason.

I can't hear your reasonable statement over the sound of the pitchforks being sharpened.

Let's give the guys from DP some time to respond ok? Nothing's f&cked here yet dudes......

When stars were on the apron people where complaining to DP where to put the scorecards. Now they use an apron suitable for scorecards people are complaining where are the stars

We sound like a bunch of women, never OK

Forget the cards!.If someone is going to put it on route.Then put the plain apron in.What percentage of these will go on route @ 9k ?

It's not only the stars. Metal vs plastic apron is actually also not a small deal to some of us.

I am betting that a standard plastic apron is almost 100$ cheaper than the cut out metal one with leds (if not more)
This is a huge cut in cost on the build for Dutch pinball, if true, and more expensive than many other toys. (Pinball Decals charges
ca 475$ for the same kind of aprons for other games just as an example)

They never tell us anything if they do not absolutely need to. They only respond when there is no other choice, because of all the complaining. And when they do it is usually something vague or to show off a cool video. No real information.

Had they been up-front about the apron and explained why they needed to change it, the blow would not have been this big.

In my view, if they change something as expensive and special as the apron they should have been up front about it. Especially to all those who have paid up front for something if we are not getting what we thought we would.

It is not the end of the world but little things quickly adds up.

Uh, Dude, uh, tomorrow's already the tenth.

landlord.jpg

DP has done everything on the machine in pretty spectacular fashion so far. The apron will match, I am sure.

And they been consistently slow, but steady, on communication.

They may have very good reasons for the change (if there is a change - remember they haven't said there is a change yet)- scorecards for one, maybe an even better idea, or maybe the LED light going into our eyeballs while we are playing turned out to be too big a distraction.

Everyone should chill for a while. Expo is coming up and all the shit will come to light.

I bet the guys @DP are aware of the apron concern and are considering the options. Maybe it would include having an outside vendor create an authorized mod to provide the proto apron look? Like I said, nothing is fukked here yet dudes. EXPO is less than a week away.

IMHO at expo they need to deliver:

1. A real, extended look at updated code.
2. Specific ship timing and a credible plan to get there.

At this point I don't expect the game until Q1. Any later than that and DP will have lost me as a customer for future games.

I agree, Zucot.

I'm also not interested in paying extra money for a "mod" apron that was supposed to be there in the first place.

Wow! A year has already flown by since the last expo when what appeared to be complete prototype games were shown. I don't know what more there is to show this year, other than further developed code, small tweaks to the playfield art and a new apron.

I guess if making a pinball machine is hard, getting one into productions is even harder. Really looking forward to playing the game and seeing it get to the distributors.

We don't know what was supposed to be there in the first place. It could of been always their intent that the apron for the protos were a temporary thing, but not communicated.. Allowing us(including me) to assume a lot about the gap between prototypes and production. Agree though that if I had to pay for it, I wouldn't be interested. Will have to see what the new apron looks like.

Hopefully at expo we get a good look at what a production game is going to be. Whether it's a game or PowerPoint.

Does anyone know if there is there going to be a stream of their seminar available?

Jared is out on that front
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/booked-flight-for-chicago-expo-2015-you-coming/page/10#post-2696324

If you're going to attend DP's Expo seminar, best to go in style ...

Dude.jpg

this is better than the sweater imho. white russian pic.jpg

The only pinball marketing you've ever been involved in is John Popadiuk. So...yeah. SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY!

I think the Stars have EL panels under them like the aprons from Pinball Dreams. My T2 and MM aprons from Pinball Dreams are not blinding at all. I will say if you do not ground the apron correctly that you will be in for a shock literally when you go to grab it and lift up when the game is powered on.

Why does it have to be one or the other? In fact, why not throw in some of the Dude's favorite smoking material too? Make it a seminar to remember!

Ganja ... take me away.jpg

I think the LEDs going into our eyes was too blinding. I heard that it was too difficult to fit into an apron the amazing technology they're using on the rest of the LEDs in the game that causes the light to go around our eyes.

Let's hope. Enough speculation though ... DP's Expo presentation will tell the tale.

T-minus and counting ...

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20151015T17&p0=64&msg=Dutch+Pinball+Expo+Seminar+Start&font=cursive&csz=1

Yeah but it really ties the game together.

Won't be long now......

I assume a NSNL comes out to coincide with it.. Hopefully ahead of the talk

Doesn't look like streaming though.. so those in attendance take good notes

I never did marketing for John. I gave him ideas yes, did he use them? No. Was there a pin to market, no. My Magic Girl ideas were great, but John kept saying he wanted to mail a pin to David Copperfield. Terrible idea.

I did celebrate the return of Pinball to Oakland by putting one in a Radio Shack. Nothing could have saved them, but it was still a good marketing idea.

And Rare, no need to personally insult me. There's no denying Dutch Pinball came out guns blazing a year ago and then almost nothing for a year. That's bad marketing. Like it or not, but you want to create demand as close to launch as possible. I get pinball is different and it takes time to make a pin. But a full year when you already have a seemingly final pin made isn't too smart. But then again, as long as people keep pre-ordering pins this will happen over and over again.

I hope TBL ships in Q4 this year and Dutch uses Expo to announce the ship date and shows us killer code. I loved playing TBL at Modern Pinball and having more than one option is good for pinball. I really want STERN to up its game and they won't until competitors figure out production.

Just because they put the gun in the holster doesn't mean nothing has been going on for a year....stay tuned

God damn you Walter! You fuckin' asshole! Everything's a fuckin' travesty with you, man!

Calmer than you are.

Yeah, waving a FUCKING gun around!!!!

calmer then you are

Making pinballs is still hard. Wishing I could go to Expo. I played TBL the first and only time at Allentown this year and was pretty bummed by the beta code. And the rug not working. The shots flowed nice and the machine was looked good, but beyond that it was just a box of lights. Surely they'll have something prepared that blows everyone away at Expo? I'd need it big time if I was on the buy list.

Not working?

The prototypes had some breakdowns . But, DP built a dedicated test rig for the redesign and shared a video of it 7 months ago:

No, it's not. You approach marketing as if the audience is easily-bored children. To insult Dutch's efforts as "bad" is what's insulting.

Pinball is a different beast than any other product.

Dutch Pinball's marketing was genius - they came out of nowhere, pitched their game to a niche group of collectors - spoke their language, gave them a "dream theme", had a great build up, a great reveal...and secured about 300 pre-orders. Mission accomplished. Their current stage is finishing/building the initial games...you can't pre-order the game anymore - so therefore, there is nothing to market. When the game is finished and in production, THEN there will be distributors and a marketing push to the "general public". Until that point, your insults toward their marketing plan doesn't come off as advice from an expert, but childish entitlement. "Gimme gimme gimme gimme! Show me show me! Yer dumb! I'm smaht!"

If you want to judge their marketing, judge their next phase and offer your constructive criticism at that point.

The game looks great to me. The wait's a pain but it should be worth it.

New pins, especially by new manufacturers probably have to undergo a lot of play testing. I bet they have spent a great deal of time banging away on this thing just to make sure it rolls right, shots don't hang up, ramps are smooth, mechs work - things get adjusted and then need to be retested all over again.

Not too mention the software stuff. Just because they don't pop out here every 3 weeks to let us know what they are doing doesn't mean squat.

Is anyone streaming their session at expo?

I just wanna say in case DP is reading this that as someone who's in on this, I don't really need updates myself. I would rather have them working on things and update us when there is news. Of course more regular comm is great, but if they spend more time working, testing, coding etc. I think that's where I'd like them to be spending their time. Plus since they'll be at Expo I am sure we'll get more then.

Fixed it for you.

Tell this to the people waiting on their black trim MMR that was ordered in 2013.

So do we know if anyone will be streaming the Dutch Pinball seminar tomorrow? I'd love to watch it live.