(Topic ID: 215439)

playmatic the 30's problems

By widget2k4

5 years ago


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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider rolf_martin_062.
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#13 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4 +
I wanted to look at the pin in ipdb - about the 10'000 points --- what do I see: IPDB says "the 2-player-pin is Recel Bang! Bang!" http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=167

There is a good spanish site: http://www.tecnopinball.org/doc_biblioteca.php AND THEY HAVE the "Esquema Bang Bang". And points and other playfield features: No difference in the logic (4- versus 2-player-game).

about the 10'000 points --- want to unsolder a wire away from the coil - for a while - so You can test other stuff - maybe play a bit ?
Greetings Rolf

#16 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
I pick the last sentence in Your post-15 --- ro switch in the ball shoot lane --- hmm, here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=834&picno=39111 on the right: I do not see a switch in the shooter alley. Can You make an description using the ipdb-picture - talking "left / right / up etc." ? Greetings Rolf

#18 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
in the last sentence in Your post-15 --- ro switch in the ball shoot lane: You say it does nothing --- I wonder "where on the playfield is this switch ?".
To me "ball shoot lane" sonds like "shooter alley - the channel we launch balls so the ball get into play" --- I look at the ipdb-picture - I do not see an switch in the shooter alley - so what switch is Your " ro switch in the ball shoot lane" ? Greetings Rolf

#20 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
a fact (Far Out) and some guessing (the 30's). See here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=823&picno=52843 - my Far Out has an "Gate". When the Gate is open and a ball rolls through the open Gate into the Shooter Alley: The Gate-Relay is made to quit pulling means the Gate closes. When I have the Gate open and loose the ball between the flipperbats: A new ball is given to the shooter alley - the Gate is STILL open. I then launch the new ball - the ball rolls over the switch and the Gate closes.

(Guessing) The ipdb-picture to Your pin does not show such an switch in the shooter alley - to Bang!Bang! http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=167 the ipdb shows no switch. The http://www.tecnopinball.org/doc_biblioteca.phpv has the schematics Bang!Bang! --- at position E/F-1/2 in the schematics are coils "ZZ" and "YY" (I guess the Gates) --- two switches "Door Close" AND "Switch on P-Relay" opening to also cut current. P-Relay is the P-Add-Player-Unit-Relay. So in Bang!Bang! the Gates also close when the pin steps to next player / next ball.
And now really the guessing: Maybe You have an early production pin - designed like my "Far Out" - and in production time somebody came and said: Hey - we do it other (like shown in the schematics Bang!Bang!) --- let the switch there but do wire it new / like schematics Bang!Bang!.

Please shop around for an schematics to Your pin --- there is not much joy looking into the schematics of Bang!Bang! (color of wires ?) trying to find information to Your pin. Greetings Rolf

#23 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
I show a snippet of schematics of the TWO-Player-pin --- Your pin has (probably) the same logic --- but for (1,2) (3) 4 Players. I see a possibility "brown, upper part in the JPG" to cause the faulty pulling - and I see a possibility "blue, lower part" to cause the fault. For both I must think-in an additional fault to make happen what You have in Your pin.

"Blue": The "Self-Hold-Switch*** on the K-10'000-Relay" is faulty always closed (and additional: The Coil on the 10'000-Score-Drum does not fire).

"Brown": On the 1000s-Score-Drums there is a plunger moved (to then make the drum to turn) --- at end of travel the plunger opens a switch (brown-1) - also closes a switch (brown-2). IF (if, if) two studs / solder-lugs on these two switches (on any of the Score-Drums) faulty touch: You have faulty connection along "brown lines" (and additional: The Score-Drum is in 9th position and/or the 9th-pos-switch is faulty).

Want to try on "blue" - locate the plunger on one of the 10'000-Score-Drums and the End-of-Stroke-Switch (blue-1) that shall open when the coil on the drum fires --- sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the contact-points to make the switch permanently open.
Want to try on "blue" - inspect the "Self-Hold-Switch*** on the K-10'000-Relay" - have the pin toggled off so the relay is not pulling - is this switch truely open ? (contact-points, drop of solder, doghair crap of wire, a stud bent and so the solder-lugs touch ?)
The "Self-Hold-Switch*** on the K-10'000-Relay" is easy to find: From one side of the coil runs a short wire to "Switch mounted on the relay" - THIS switch is the Self-Hold-Switch***.

Want to try on "brown" - Inspect all the End-of-Stroke-Switches on the 1000s-Score-Drums for "touching studs / solder-lugs" (brown-1, brown-2). (But to brown: problem 9th-pos-switch).

The written above is "searching the cause of the problem" --- it is not "fixing the problem". Greetings Rolf

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#25 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4 +
do laugh at me / twit --- CLASSICPINBALL 's remark about the 10k pop bumper made me to (really) look at the pin - this: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2532 is Your pin --- and this http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=834 is what I thought ... All my writing so far is "to be deleted" - well, O.K. this is true on every pin: When the 10K-Relay has its Self-Hold-Switch faulty always closed we then have a problem --- either "Machine-Gunning" when the 10k Score-Drum-EOS switch is good --- or then a stuck 10k-Relay when the Score-Drum does not actuate the plunger - the EOS-Switch on the Drum faulty not opens.

I think positive and look forward (and forget about the past) --- here http://www.tecnopinball.org/doc_biblioteca.php they have the schematics of the 4-Player "Speak Easy" - and You have the two player version "The 30s".

I will write a post (like post-23) but with the schematics of "Speak Easy" --- the problem is a "playfield feature" so the schematics of the 4-player version is of help. Greetings Rolf

#28 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
I have big problems with the schematics "Speak Easy" --- stuff is named in spanish words. In post-27 You write "one more problem - the Replay-Relay sticks". Here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2532&picno=16894 we see a Score-Motor like Williams motors - so I say "Playmatics use Williams Logic" --- hmm, Williams, Replay-Relay - what is this for ? I look into the schematics "Blue Chip, Williams" - I do not see an Replay-Relay in the Williams schematics. Do You take the word "Replay-Relay" from a paper attached near the Relay in the pin ?
Does this (Replay- ) Relay immediately pulls-in when You toggle on the pin ? Or "when You want to start a game" ? Does Your pin has paper-tags telling the names - in english and/or spanish ? Did You fumble on the Coin-Door-Switches ? Did You check Vintage-Pinball 's post-24 --- having a good look at the green 10k bumper. (Assuming the other 2 bumpers are good: Looking at an "good bumper" and You see how switches should be). Greetings Rolf

#31 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
thanks for the picture in post-29 - also post-5 --- You have papertags telling "DM is 10'000 Relay", "G is 1000 Relay", "F is 100 Relay", "A is Replay Relay". The letters DM, G, F, A match with the letters in the schematics.
The schematics makes me believe: "A Replay Relay" has to do with coining-up the Replay-Counter in the Backglass. Here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2532&picno=16889 on top of the head of the man in the lower left corner --- is there an Replay-Counter ?

Toggle-off the pin - manually step the Replay-Counter down to 1 or 2 or 3 Replays --- then toggle-on the pin - question: Toc, toc, toc ... and the Replay-Counter steps up to MAX (maybe 10 or 15 or 25 or 37 Replays) ?

Ooops - Your post-30 did come in --- the picture shows the Score-MOTOR. The counters in the Backglass are Score-DRUMS --- DID You get the schematics ? Greetings Rolf

0Speak-Easy-Work-01 (resized).jpg0Speak-Easy-Work-01 (resized).jpg

#43 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4 +
I was about to get frustrated "widget2k4 has the schematics --- but he does not show it" - O.K. You have clarified in post-39 "what we have is the schematics of the FOUR-Player version, the "Speak Easy" --- it is of help for problems "playfield features". It is not of help on problems "start and reset" / "stepping on the balls".
ipdb has to "Black Flag - ONE-Player pin" the schematics: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=4487 - I look at and see: Strange, the Score-Motor is like Gottlieb-Score-Motors - so Black Flag to me is 3,4,5 choice to look-at.
Nice - here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ball-count-not-decreasing-stays-on-ball-5-playmatic-conquest-200#post-4172778 is the schematics to the ONE-Player-Pin "Conquest 200" --- (well, part of the playfield-feature stuff is missing) --- but look at the pictures in that topic in post-6: The Score-Motor is like the one in "the 30's". I would like to use the schematics "Conquest 200" for problems in Your pin "start and reset" / "stepping on the balls".

What issues / problems do You have in Your pin --- here in post-27 You show (ugly) a problem on the Score-Motor --- in the picture in post-30, black cam named "index" - the "red nylon follower" does not look "well seated" --- can You start a new game and the pin resets and kicks-out a ball ?

You do have the problem "10k Relay is faulty constantly pulling" - see the JPG - Your 10k Relay is the "DM-Relay" ? See the lower left corner in the JPG - a short wire runs from the coil to switch mounted on the relay --- this is "encircled blue switch 'DM' " - check for "open when relay is not pulling - drop of solder at the solder-lugs making faulty connection ? - a doghair crap of wire ? - one of the lugs bent so the lugs touch ?". Sneak-in a stripe of wire in-between the two contact-points - make this switch always open. See the lower left corner in the JPG - wire-color-BL-VE is soldered-on on that switch and this wire runs into the pin - runs to many places - runs to "Switch on M-Relay" (and more) - locate the M-Relay and the switch with wire-color-BL-VE - inspect the switch and sneak-in a stripe of paper.
Locate all the relays shown in the JPG and the switches (encircled blue) - inspect and sneak-in a stripe of paper to make the switches "always open". "My blue star in the JPG" is the "9th-pos-switch on the 1000-point-drum" - also make this switch always open.

Have the DM-Coil connected - plug-in, toggle-on, start a game - question: Does the DM-Relay faulty pull ? IF (if, if) "Yes": Please write about. IF (if, if) "No": Pull-out ONE of the stripes of paper - question: Does the faulty pulling happen - You have found the place. Otherwise pull-out the next stripe of paper - and the next - and the next --- Do You find the faulty place ? Greetings Rolf

0Speak-Easy-Work-02 (resized).jpg0Speak-Easy-Work-02 (resized).jpg

#45 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
a post to come "Score-Motor".
In post-44 You write the second time "activating the S-Special-Relay makes the 10k-fault to dissapear". I hope for luck --- I look at Your picture in post-10, on the bottom out-left and out-right I see the Outlanes worth hmm, how many points ? - worth "Special" when lit. I look at my JPG in post-43, on the bottom I see "my drawn blue wire comes to an threebladed-Make-and-Brake-Switch on S-Relay. To the right then come "pasillo inf. der. and pasillo inf. izqu". The dictionnary http://www.dict.cc/ I sometimes use - set to "EN-ES", looking for pasillo: http://enes.dict.cc/?s=pasillo gives "corridor, aisle" --- I think positive and so I read "Outlane".

A question: What points do You get on these Outlanes "special not lit" ?
A question: What points do You get on these Outlanes "special lit" ?
Have a good look at these switches (Outlanes left and right on the underneathside of the playfield) --- bent blade making faulty always contact ? drop of solder ? doghair crap of wire ? a stud / solderlug bent ?

Look again to the JPG in post-43, bottom, three-bladed switch "S" --- the S-Relay not pulling and we have connection (wanted by the manufacturer) towards the right --- when one of these "pasillo-switches" is faulty always closed: The fault on DM-10k-Relay. Greetings Rolf

#48 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
more text to come (Playmatic, Williams) --- here the situation on Bally pins. Greetings Rolf

0pinwiki-BallyScoreMotor3-4View-Work-01 (resized).jpg0pinwiki-BallyScoreMotor3-4View-Work-01 (resized).jpg

#49 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
I wonder how my JPG (post-48) had become faulty --- this one is reasonable. Greetings Rolf

0pinwiki-BallyScoreMotor3-4View-Work-01 (resized).jpg0pinwiki-BallyScoreMotor3-4View-Work-01 (resized).jpg

#50 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
Score-Motor - hmm - did You unscrew and take-off the Switch-Stacks above the many black cams ? Did You take apart the many black cams and now have a bunch of similar looking cams not knowing the order to put together ? Is the picture in post-30 BEFORE taking apart ? Is the picture in post-44 BEFORE taking apart ? Can You show a picture "by now the motor looks like this" ? Greetings Rolf

#52 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
the first JPG shows the situation on Shangri La (Williams). The second JPG shows "Speak Easy" - the cam next to the real motor is an IMPULSE cam (two times five teeth on the outside around on the cam) --- the switchstack on this very first cam next to the real motor has THREE switches in the switchstack - the next cam has in the switchstack SIX switches etc. --- did You take-apart switchstacks ? Greetings Rolf

0pinwiki-Williams-ScoreMotor-Work-01 (resized).jpg0pinwiki-Williams-ScoreMotor-Work-01 (resized).jpg

0Speak-Easy-Work-03 (resized).jpg0Speak-Easy-Work-03 (resized).jpg

#54 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
when they did manufacture the pin: Wires are cut just as long so they fit --- see the second JPG in post-52 --- can you take an "switchstack made of THREE switches" and move it to "cam next to the real motor" ? Then an "switchstack made of SIX switches" and move it to the next cam etc. ?
Do the wires on the switchstacks then lay "natural" - "nice-looking" ? Can You do this with all switchstacks ? IF (if, if) there is "doubt": We must take the information from my JPG "very first switchstack has three switches - shown on schematics "1-F" and "7-F" and "7-F" --- look-up and say "switch on schematics 1-F has wire-color-MA-NE, has wire-color-AM" etc --- IDENTIFYING switchstacks by colors of wires (shown in the schematics). Greetings Rolf

About "repairing" worn / damaged cams: I never has taken apart - I never had to fix such cams --- I could do some guessing (epoxy ? / two-component glue ? attaching on the sides some cardbord made "helping, new" cam ) --- I could do some guessing but You have the pin - can look-at the situation and You do guessing (?). Greetings Rolf

#56 5 years ago

Hi widget2k4
thanks for saying "thanks". YOU made the observation "manually activating the S-Special-Relay makes the fault on the 10k-points-Relay to dissapear". Lucky us - it was an playfield-feature fault and the schematics of the 4-player-pin was helpful. Thanks for "keeping at the problem - writing".

IF (if, if) You want to dig into "reading schematics": These schematics in spanish are not first choice --- xsvtoys made an excellent "walkthrough" through his Bally Bon Voyage: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-schematic-fully-described-from-beginning-to-end-bally-bon-voyage --- Bally and Williams have the same logic --- Gottlieb is different in stepping through the players / balls. ONE thing: The Bon Voyage is an ONE-Player-ADD-A-BALL-Pin --- stepping the ball in an ADD-A-BALL-Pin is a bit different compared with ONE-Player-REPLAY-Pin(s).
When You read xsvtoys document: You will know A LOT about pinball-machines. Greetings Rolf

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