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(Topic ID: 49132)

Playing No Fear After AC/DC - Update, Sound Upgrade Complete!


By RacerRik

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by BC_Gambit
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

So I have been playing a lot of AC/DC lately since it is the newest pin in my collection. I know that No Fear does not get a lot of love, but it is actually one of my favorite games. I had not played my No Fear for about two weeks and when I went to play it, I was shocked by two things.

1st, I consider No Fear to be a very fast game, but after AC/DC it feels like No Fear is running in slow motion. I guess that is good actually. I played really well on No Fear which means AC/DC is improving my skills!

2nd, I never thought No Fear sounded bad, not great either but certainly not unbearable. Well after AC/DC I cannot stand the poor sound quality of No Fear. It sounds like listening to an alarm clock radio. I still love the game play in No Fear so I am going to mod the sound system.

Ordered some new 5.25" coax speakers for the back box and a 12" sub to put in the cabinet. I don't expect it to sound as good as AC/DC, but I had to do something to get some actual bass sound in it and tone down the tinny back box sound.

#2 7 years ago

let me know how this works - I am in the same boat. I did not see the fall off on speed, but it did force me to jack up the legs a little to get it back to the speed freak it used to be. A little wax also went a long way to get them both crazy..

#3 7 years ago

the sound on acdc is killer!!!!feels like your at a gig!!!!

#4 7 years ago

I upgraded the sound system on my NF and love it. It doesn't cost much if your semi-handy.

http://dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_sound_info.html

I used this guide. Maybe this link will help.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/suggestions-or-thoughts-on-replacement-speakers

#5 7 years ago

Properly set up and waxed, no fear is just as fast as acdc just less cheap. I don't know of any shots in no fear where you get punished for making the shot with a drain. I own both games and its a toss up which I prefer.

#6 7 years ago

I have both NF and ACDC. I just got my ACDC Premium over the weekend and got it bullet proofed and played a few games last night. NF has no pops so there is no where to really park the ball except when you shoot one of the scoops and there is that small delay when the upper kicker shoots the ball to the right flipper. The speed of the loops on both is comparable. NF will get you a drain if you hit a weak jump ramp shot or even a weak center track loop shot. On ACDC i was getting sdtm drains right out of the pops and also with the made bell shot.. Ouch.. I really like my NF. I am having a little issue of the ball launcher not getting the ball into skydive scoop consistently. Sometimes the the ball strikes the front of the entrance to the skydive sccop and drains back SDTM. A real pisser. Really no ajustment that I can make to get this problem fixed?

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from Chet:

Really no ajustment that I can make to get this problem fixed?

Have you changed the sleeve on the coil? Helped mine.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from Chet:

I am having a little issue of the ball launcher not getting the ball into skydive scoop consistently.

I have the same problem. I have tried a bunch of things to fix it and it is better now, but still misses a fair percentage of the time.

#9 7 years ago

On No Fear the best way to correct the launcher problem is to adjust the ball guide on the right side of the shooter lane. If you look under the "rock" there is a plastic with a bird's nest on it. There is a hex post sticking up through that plastic. Loosen that post and you can move the right ball guide to the left or right to get the ball to make a clean shot to the sky dive. Takes a bit of trial and error, but once you've got it you shouldn't have to change it unless your game goes out of level.

image-19.jpg

#10 7 years ago

Obviously I would look into the sleeve first. Then I would look at slightly adjusting the shooter lane metal guide. I seem to recall at the top of it, under the plastic near the kickback lights, it has an adjustable slot for the top screw that holds is down. You may be able to angle it a little more to help you out.

Quoted from Chet:

I am having a little issue of the ball launcher not getting the ball into skydive scoop consistently.

Quoted from RacerRik:

I have the same problem. I have tried a bunch of things to fix it and it is better now, but still misses a fair percentage of the time.

EDIT: Yep Moondrummer beat me to it.

#11 7 years ago

I've got both pins as well & have been throwing down a lot of time on my AC/DC lately and haven't played my NF in a month or so. My NF came with sound system upgraded with Pinball Pro speakers and LED's. I'll have to get a game in on NF & see how I feel...

#12 7 years ago

I have already tried adjusting the shooter lane metal guide, adjusting the position of the shooter solenoid, replacing the coil sleeve, replacing the coil plunger, waxing the shooter lane and metal guide, replacing the coil and finally even modifying the shooter coil by taking 50 turns of wire off the damn thing.

It still does not consistently make the skydive hole..... so, I gave up. I live with it missing the skydive shot sometimes and just save the ball and keep on playing. It does like to head straight for the drain when it misses. I have had it miss and drain then ball save, then miss and drain again and by then ball save is over so I got nothin for that ball. Very annoying when that happens.

The problem on my game is not one of alignment. When the shooter kicks the ball out at normal speed, it goes straight into the skydive hole. It is just that maybe one in four shots, the shooter goes off weak. I have no idea why it does this. When it fires the ball weak, it almost always misses the skydive hole.

#13 7 years ago

RacerRik
I have done everything you did including replacing the coil and moving the right lane guide as far as I can with the adjustment post provided. I adjusted the at rest position even when the ball is sitting against the apron forks. I have triple checked to make sure the plunger is striking the ball on center horizontally and vertically and as best I can tell, the plunger is striking the ball dead center. Same happens to me sometimes on the initial ball launch, it will hit in front of the skydive entrance and sdtm drain, then get the ball save auto plunger and it will do the same and I will lose ball getting jack. Piss-off meter needle pegs. I noticed it too, seems to be more a weaker shot than an alignment issue. The first year I owned the game, the ball went into the skydive scoop ever freakin' time. Could this be caused by a weak or flaky power driver board transistor that controls the auto plunger?

#14 7 years ago

I would suspect mechanical issues not electrical issues for both your plunger problems...

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I would suspect mechanical issues not electrical issues for both your plunger problems...

Markmon, what kind of mechanical problem should we be looking for?

Like Chet, I have begun to suspect the drive transistor(s) is weak. But don't know how to test that other than just replacing the main and pre-drive transistors. Rather not do that unless someone with some expertise or experience thinks it is likely / possible to cause such a problem.

#16 7 years ago

I wonder if it could even be the shooter lane switch itself. Perhaps you could adjust it so that it is slightly less sensitive, letting the ball more completely rest on the autoplunger before it is fired.

#17 7 years ago

Alright, this is might be silly, but how many machines do you have on the same circuit? I had a vuk on my lotr act "soft" sporadically. Couldn't nail it down to save my life. My buddy grabbed an extension cord and bam, Never a problem again.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from RacerRik:

I have already tried adjusting the shooter lane metal guide, adjusting the position of the shooter solenoid, replacing the coil sleeve, replacing the coil plunger, waxing the shooter lane and metal guide, replacing the coil and finally even modifying the shooter coil by taking 50 turns of wire off the damn thing.

Mine used to make it to the skydive hole only about 50% of the time, at best. I went through everything you did... well, except removing windings from the coil. Mine would hit low on the left entrance wall, then ricochet off the right entrance wall and SDTM.

What finally did the trick for me was when I played with the gate on shooter lane. I found the sweet spot on mine was with the top of the gate moved to the left, with the upper mounting screw close to the open edge of the bracket. It must give it just a little deflection or put enough 'english' on the ball that it now makes it in almost every time.

I wasn't seeing a change in force of my launches, so this might not be the solution for you. But it's something you might want to try if you haven't yet.

#19 7 years ago

My game is definitely shooting the ball out at different rates. It is completely obvious when it kicks the ball out weakly. The ball barely reaches the top of the playfield when it happens. The normal shot is boom up the guide and into the hole - no doubt it is going right in. The weak shots do not correlate to anything - they seem to be just random events. But you know it was a weak shot before the ball even reaches the top of the shooter lane so you get ready to try and save it cause you know it is not going into the skydive hole....

And my game plugs into an outlet right off the main circuit breaker panel. 12 guage wire from the panel - only about 3 foot run, then a 14 Gauge 12 ft long extension cord to where the games plug in. I do have 4 games running on that outlet, but this problem happens even when no other game is turned on. And the other three games have no indication of any voltage problems at all.

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from RacerRik:

Markmon, what kind of mechanical problem should we be looking for?
Like Chet, I have begun to suspect the drive transistor(s) is weak. But don't know how to test that other than just replacing the main and pre-drive transistors. Rather not do that unless someone with some expertise or experience thinks it is likely / possible to cause such a problem.

It's easy to rule out. Just swap your power drive board with your Indy, getaway or one of the other wpc boards. The drive transistor doesn't really drive the power. The power rail is always active. The transistor just provides ground when its time to activate the coil. My brief is it either works or not. I suppose its possible for the transistor to build up internal resistance or the circuitry around it (board traces) become weak so the grounding isn't so good. But that seems less likely to me. It's possible that the entire rail is weak. You cAn measure the power on the coil and see. That seems more likely to me than a single transistor.

Mechanical, I would rebuild everything replacing all the parts. Make sure nothing is loose. These things can be a bear to troubleshoot

#21 7 years ago

For some reason I was thinking the driver board was different in No Fear than my other WPC games. It is the newest Williams game I have. I know the MPU board is a WPC-S which is definitely different from my other games.

So, is the driver board interchangeable between WPC and WPC-S games? If so, I will swap the boards and see if the problem goes away.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from RacerRik:

For some reason I was thinking the driver board was different in No Fear than my other WPC games. It is the newest Williams game I have. I know the MPU board is a WPC-S which is definitely different from my other games.
So, is the driver board interchangeable between WPC and WPC-S games? If so, I will swap the boards and see if the problem goes away.

Yes. The mpu is different. But the power driver is the same. STTNG is newest of your others. But it's also finicky so maybe leave that game alone of its working lol. Getaway is the oldest. Maybe Indy is an ok choice.

#23 7 years ago

Also, besides checking the shooterlane switch like I mentioned above - one thing I noticed with my No Fear that I still haven't fixed 100% is that the autoplunger appears to 'stick' sometimes in the fired position. A flip of a flipper or gentle tap on the side of the game un-wedges it. This is even with a new coil sleeve. I wonder if the spring itself on mine is causing a bit of binding with the mechanism. Some food for thought anyways - it does occasionally miss the skydive hole also.

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from SteveP3:

one thing I noticed with my No Fear that I still haven't fixed 100% is that the autoplunger appears to 'stick' sometimes in the fired position

Mine does that also and I have determined it is not binding - the bell on the plunger is magnetically sticking to the coil bracket. Not sure how to fix that problem.

#25 7 years ago

I finished my sound upgrade project on No Fear today. It is an amazing improvement! The skull's voice is rich and full now. Bass is strong and solid. It of course still does not sound as good as AC/DC, but with the upgrade I can at least enjoy playing it again next to AC/DC. AC/DC just has me spoiled I guess.

Anyway, I went with parts from MCM. Bought the MCM Audio Select Series 12" woofer - 4ohm, plus a set of each of the Lanzar VX520 and VX320 car speakers. Total cost with shipping of just over $60. Plus I have the other speakers left over from each Lazar set to do another Williams game.

The VX520s bolt right in. The VX320s mount different from the original right speaker plus they are a little bigger so I had to make an adapter. For the woofer, I pried off the old speaker mount plate and bolted the new woofer straight to the cabinet bottom. I did reuse the grill and just put in screws on the inside of the cabinet.

My first attempt at wiring was per the directions here: http://dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_sound_info.html

I did not care for the way that sounded. The back box speakers were too quiet compared to the woofer and they did not seem to have much high frequency response either. My guess is that the coils in the speakers tend to filter out the high frequency spectrum plus the 8 ohm load cuts sound level quite a bit.

So I wired them in parallel and put a 200 mfd capacitor in series with the 3.5 speaker to prevent overdriving the amplifier chip with too low load impedance. It then sounded much better but there seemed to be a null when listening from the center of the speakers. This usually indicates a phasing problem so I swapped the polarity of one of the back box speakers and that fixed it right up.

Overall the sound is now really good and for a few hours work plus $60 in parts I am completely happy with it.

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Properly set up and waxed, No Fear is just as fast as acdc just less cheap. I don't know of any shots in No Fear where you get punished for making the shot with a drain. I own both games and its a toss up which I prefer.

The targets to light the kickback come to mind. That entire right area is made to trap and deaden the ball, and usually ends in a right drain for me.

NF truly is the miss you're f'ed machine. Every time, if I miss, it drains. There are some days I hate Steve Ritchie.

#27 7 years ago

Missing the shot and draining is not nearly as frustrating as making the shot perfectly and then draining (AC/DC bell shot).

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from RacerRik:

Missing the shot and draining is not nearly as frustrating as making the shot perfectly and then draining (AC/DC bell shot).

Yes. This. Missing and draining is frustrating. But on acdc you drain on shots you've made especially from the cannon. Inferiorating.

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from RacerRik:

Missing the shot and draining is not nearly as frustrating as making the shot perfectly and then draining (AC/DC bell shot).

I hated this at first, now on cannon shots, I nudge good (but not to the point of registering a warning) to the right when the ball hits the drops, this causes the ball the rebound to the right hard, and I have not had one left drain from this since. In fact, it works so well, that while playing "let there be rock", I can actually get a free hit on those targets to the right with the rebound most time.

#30 7 years ago

I get sdtm drains from the bell shot and directly from the pop bumpers. I replaced the small post and rubber ring with a standard solid post with a bigger yellow post rubber on it. Still get drains out of the pops but not quite as often.

image.jpg

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from RacerRik:

Missing the shot and draining is not nearly as frustrating as making the shot perfectly and then draining (AC/DC bell shot).

Kinda like making a shot at the castle (MM) or the mother ship (AFM) and having your ball drain? Hell even shots to Frank on MB can cause center drains. Seems like this kinda thing has been done before.

4 months later
#32 7 years ago

I ended up increasing the playfield slope to 7 degrees and also have the lower PF sloped slightly off level to to the right. Ball now will come down to the right and not SDTM after leaving the Pops and exiting the Hells Bell lane.. Makes a big difference with significantly fewer SDTM drains.

Did you get your NF problem solved as far as ball not making the Skydive hole on autoplunge?

1 month later
#33 6 years ago
Quoted from Chet:

Did you get your NF problem solved as far as ball not making the Skydive hole on autoplunge?

It makes it most of the time now. But I have not played it much lately. All my play seems to be on AC/DC for some reason...

1 month later
#34 6 years ago

O.k., I got my No Fear auto plunger feed problem to the skydive hole resolved. I removed the right metal ball guide on the right side of the shooter lane from the game. I reshaped the curve in it to flatten it out where the ball starts to make the curve( as it goes under the ball gate). Over time, the concave curve had gotten deeper and was actually causing the ball to curve too much as it exited the guide toward the Upper PF. Adjusted the hex adjuster post also, but that was further up and was not doing much as I already had it to where the upper end of the guide was resting tight against the post. I played 10 games and the auto plunger fired the ball 100% of time into the Skydive hole, including during multiball, etc. Interesting, I was having a similar problem with the left outlane kickback on my Getaway HSII not kicking the ball to the tunnel saucer consistently. I removed the left outlane lane metal ball guide and reshaped it to reduce the amount of curve and now it kicks the ball into the tunnel scoop nearly everytime.

photo (56).JPG

1 year later
#35 5 years ago

Just wanted to add some extra info here. I was having all sorts of trouble with the ball not shooting into the skydive hole, i ended up removing the post rubber at the end of the ball guide pictured above. This allows the lane guide to move a little more to the right and ball lands in the hole every time..

4 years later
#36 1 year ago
Quoted from robm:

Just wanted to add some extra info here. I was having all sorts of trouble with the ball not shooting into the skydive hole, i ended up removing the post rubber at the end of the ball guide pictured above. This allows the lane guide to move a little more to the right and ball lands in the hole every time..

When you did this does the ball hit the bottom kickback re-light target directly above it? As mine is it hits that target on every plunge although I'm not sure if it registers as a hit. I imagine removing that rubber would make the problem worse (although it might also fix the original plunge problem)

I've spent several hours doing everything you (and others) have mentioned and the ball still missing the Skydive hole .5"-1" to the left. Bend the rail, adjust the hex screw, hold the ramp manually with my fingers and a screwdriver looking for a better exit angle. Nothing seems to work. This is my first pin I just picked up this weekend so while I enjoy the challenge (better than soldering!) it's still frustrating.

1 year later
#37 3 months ago

Who here has the 2.3X update on NF?....feel a difference?....

#38 3 months ago
Quoted from Gorgar666:

Who here has the 2.3X update on NF?....feel a difference?....

Do you mean a ROM revision upgrading the sound? I feel I am missing the point of this question.

#39 3 months ago

U6 Rom 2.3X Game play update. From original .8 .....

Version 2.3
Date: September 14, 1995
U6: Checksum: CC23 (A – USA/Canada)
Checksum: B023 (X – Export)

Changes from revision 2.2:

Improved the ball search logic to better compensate for a
broken switch at the right popper.

Changed the Skill Shot choice to start after the plunge,
not before. This keeps the choice from being available
until the ball actually arrives at the shooter.

Fixed a bug where choosing LOCK from the skill shot would
remove the 3rd lit lock if the player already had it lit.

Fixed score histogram labels.

Version 2.2
Date: September 14, 1995
U6: Checksum: A622 (A – USA/Canada)
Checksum: 8122 (X – Export)

Changes from revision 2.0:

Fixed a bug where the state of the errors for the optos
being stuck and the drop target being flakey were not
being cleared at factory reset, so the user could get
erroneous errors randomly, based on the state of the CMOS
RAM before the reset.

Fixed a bug in the user-error report where line 2 of
of the error message was not being cleared properly.
This would cause messages such as “check drop target,
not set” instead of just having “check drop target”

Version 2.0
Date: June 8, 1995
U6: Checksum: C520 (A – USA/Canada)
Checksum: 9F20 (X – Export)

Changes from revision 1.1:

The game now checks the ramp magnet optos to see if any are stuck
closed at initialization. If so, they are considered to be
disabled until the next powerup (or test mode) that sees them
un-stuck.

Added user report messages for stuck and disabled magnet optos.

Changed broken switch logic on drop target to make sure
that it does not try to change the position of the drop
target unnecessarily; thus allowing the player to get
to the shot behind it more easily. This then allows
locks to be lit much easier when the drop target is broken.

Added logic to watch the drop target for 15 games to make sure
that is is lighting locks. Gives a message if 15 games go by
without a lock.

Corrected the updating of the buy-in button lamp to make sure it
is updated whenever credits are added. Before, it would not start
blinking until the player had put in MORE than the required credits
for buying in.

Allowed the buy-in button to enter initials during the high score
to date entry screen.

Version 1.1
Date: May 15, 1995

U6: Checksum: 0311 (A – USA/Canada)
Checksum: DD11 (X – Export)

Changes from revision 1.0:

Added French translations.

Changed the default adjustment for Raceway Start to AUTO.

Change the default Raceway Holdover Difficulty to HARD.

Changed the auto-percentage of Raceways to start with 2 lit
instead of 3 by default.

Implemented the “dice match” feature. Added an adjustment
to use the old match display.

Fixed a glitch in the multiball start display.

Version 1.0
Date: May 3, 1995
U6: Checksum: 1B10 (A – USA/Canada)
Checksum: FB10 (X – Export)

This is the release of software for production.

This version works with sound revision 1.0:

U2: Checksum: 6B00
U3: Checksum: 6700
U4: Checksum: D000
U5: Checksum: 2700
U6: Checksum: B200
U7: Checksum: C700

Changes from revision 0.8:

Added German translations.

Fixed a bug in the drop target updater which would allow
the drop target to stay in the “wrong” state if it was
told to change while it was already busy trying to change.

Changed track feature to allow laps during the grace
period of nascar – the most obvious result of this is that
the nascar lamps will be properly updated at the end of
NASCAR mode.

Drop target now only makes a sound effect when it is dropped
by the player.

Added adjustment ofr attract mode sounds and speech.

Added broken switch logic for right ramp, underground lockup,
right/left loop switches and right return lane.

Trough test now makes sure the drop target is down at the
b eginning of the test.

Added two score fonts to the system to accomodate a 10 billion
single player score and a 10 billion multi-player “player up” score.

Increased flipper Skill Shot to 50 million.

Fixed “match” text to fit on screen.

Added a bunch of lamp, display and sound effects.

Ball search is now held off during video mode.

Fixed up the auto-plunger to correctly check game over conditions.

Version 0.8
Date: April 17, 1995
U6: Checksum: 8208 (A – USA/Canada)
Checksum: 6708 (X – Export)

#40 3 months ago

What is your question? You note the differences here...

If I was on 0.8 I would upgrade for sure!

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