(Topic ID: 47454)

Playfield touchup and clear by GAP. **FAIL**

By the_pin_family

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 134 posts
  • 63 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by gweempose
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    abandon_(1).gif
    images_(2).jpg
    images_(1).jpg
    imagesa.jpg
    P4150054.JPG
    popcorn_eat_good.gif
    popcorn.gif
    P4080026.JPG
    P4080025.JPG
    P4080008.JPG
    P4080039.JPG
    P4080023.JPG
    P4080034.JPG

    This topic is closed.

    There are 134 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 11 years ago

    Ive been contemplating this thread for a week now. I decided to wait a few days before posting it. Kind of a cool off period to give me some clarity and try and think of a solution. Ive contacted a couple guys with the proper skills to fix my playfield but they both said they wouldn't touch it. That makes it a total loss. I think the only thing to do now is follow through with my part of the original deal. Show off Great American Pinballs playfield touch up and clear coat work.

    First a teaser pic and a brief rundown on how this whole thing came to be.

    P4080034.JPGP4080034.JPG

    #2 11 years ago

    Ten months ago I was trolling pinside as normal and I ran across this thread.

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-playfields-for-art-work-touch-ups

    As you can see in the thread Mike and I struck up a deal. We talked on the phone and it was agreed I would send him my PF and he would do all the touch up work and have it clear coated. The touch up was pro bono and in return I show it off for all to see the work GAP is capable of. The clear coat I would pay him for. The cost would be only what it cost him to have it cleared. The shipping I paid for. This would take 6-8 weeks. Sounds like a killer deal. I felt like I hit the lottery. In my head I was going to have a professionally touched up and clear coated PF. The cabinet wouldn't do the PF justice in its current condition so I decided to restore it while I waited on the PF. I took the cabinet down to bare wood, repainted and fully restored it. But this review isn't about the cabinet.

    What followed in the next ten months was a series of excuses and blow offs. Im patient and understanding most of the time so I made it a point not to bother Mike. After the 6-8 week mark came and went I sent him a message simply asking if he had a timeline in mind for the project. The response I received was one that would be used by him on multiple occasions. “ My paying customers have to come first”. Usually he just didn't respond to my messages but when he did this is what I got. Heres another pic. Photo album coming soon.

    P4080023.JPGP4080023.JPG P4080039.JPGP4080039.JPG

    #3 11 years ago

    February 8th I sent him another message asking about a status or timeline with no response until Feb.18th. His response was,
    “ We are going to be finshing up the touch ups this week and sending it off to get cleared coated. Should have it back next week!”
    Another month goes by.
    ---March 18th:
    “Playfield is ready Price is $350.00 including shipping to VA.. You can paypal *******@.com”
    ---Me:Mike,
“Thanks for getting the PF done. I decided to completely sand and restencil the cabinet and I'm just about done. I'm kind of surprised about the price honestly. When we talked on the phone last may I asked about a time frame and clear coat cost. You said a couple months and you would charge me what your clear coat guy charged you, $150-$200. In your original thread you also said you would charge me what ever your clear coat guy charged you. Now it's 10 months later and $350. I need my playfield back but I'm just a little sticker shocked. I'm not sure what changed from when you first made the offer to now. I would like you to reconsider your original post and our original conversation. I however will still be more than happy to take lots of pics and post them on pinside so people can see the good work you do. Maybe I will start a thread showing my restored cabinet and playfield going back together. The guys eat that up. Thanks again, Tony”
    ---Mike:
    “sorry dude that was a type - o. it is $250.00. I hate typing fromsmart phones! $200 for the playfield and $50.00 for the shipping. We are good, thanks”

    I sent the $250.
    I received my professionally touched up playfield in the mail finally. Well thats not exactly true. I had moved in the ten months this process took. Exactly 4 times I sent Mike my new address with a note that I had moved. My PF still went to my old address. Luckily I was able to retrieve it. When I did this is what I got.
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dp6kddvo8cz58fo/y7kUnh1eaQ
    I don't know what happened. As far as I can tell mike sells high priced tricked out pins and new pins. Anyone can take a nice pin apart and make it shiny but playfield work is a whole different story. I was reassured with his talk of an art degree and the addition of PF work to his business. I assumed someone with his experience would know better than to clear over the mess thats on my PF. If something went wrong and he was not able to do it I would have understood. If he didn't want to level my inserts and just wanted to touch up my Pf I understand. Why in gods name did you clear over it before it was done? When I look at the work that was locked in by the clear it almost makes me think he was angry with me. The touchup is not even done. Its missing lines in the road and there is still wood showing around the upper traffic lights. The left large blue insert in so high the PF is not even close to playable. The clear is so thick and pooled and wavy its sad. I asked mike why he did this to my PF and all he would respond is “I'm sorry you don't like the work.” I cant imagine mike thinks this is how you touch up a PF. I can imagine he didn't know better. Im really curious to why with all the good work he puts out this is what my project turned into.

    P4080008.JPGP4080008.JPG P4080025.JPGP4080025.JPG P4080026.JPGP4080026.JPG

    12
    #4 11 years ago

    lol wtf is all I can muster up to say.

    #5 11 years ago

    That's fucked up.

    #6 11 years ago

    I don't know much about GAP, but those touchups look amateurish.

    It's clear you were a rush job as he wasn't getting paid for the touchups. But now all is locked in by the clear. Ugh.

    #7 11 years ago

    I told mike I wanted a refund for the clear coat since it would have to come off. He refunded the $250 plus another $100 for shipping with a note that again said he was sorry I didn't like the work. Im still out though. Im out 10 months and I'm out a chance at a CPR(not that I can afford one atm) and I have a fully restored cabinet without a PF. Im mad, I'm out a lot of money and I don't want anyone else to end up in the same boat. Our original deal was for me to show his work off on pinside and RGP, thats what I'm doing. The pics I took don't do it justice and I didn't take pics of everything, just the highlights.

    You can see a before pic here,
    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/getaway-highspeed-ii-playfield-restoration-90-complete-1

    Just a side note. I know these threads have a tendency to go south. Thats part of the reason I was hesitant to start it. Im not looking for a pissing match or any drama. Im not going to respond to anything that even sounds like it might be trolling. My goal has two parts. One, anyone shopping around for a touchup and clearcoat job to be aware what their getting into. Two, I'm looking for some suggestions on fixing this mess. Ive thought about a PF overlay but they seem to be a thing of the past, or I just don't know where to look.

    #8 11 years ago

    Wow. Curious to hear the other side of the story...

    But that's horrible!

    #9 11 years ago

    Wow... At least you got the money back...

    #10 11 years ago

    The last thread that was started complaining about GAP (albeit a dude crying about not getting a call back about Metallica LE) was shut down really quickly. Yet the thread flaming Mike at MAD remains open. Tread softly!

    #11 11 years ago

    I've done better work and I totally suck at it...

    #12 11 years ago

    .

    popcorn.gifpopcorn.gif

    -4
    #13 11 years ago

    Do you have any before pictures? I think you can chalk this up to "You get what you pay for."

    #14 11 years ago

    Unfortunately, it may be time to look for a repro playfield if they exist

    -2
    #15 11 years ago

    Ouch, All I can say is you got what you paid for with the touch-ups. They are decent for amateur touch-ups.

    The clearcoat has a nice shine.

    #16 11 years ago

    Was there ANY touchup work done at all...or just clearcoat??

    12
    #17 11 years ago

    Based on your agreement, it sounds like you showing pictures of their work is just you holding up your end of the bargain. It certainly allows us potential customers to judge and decide if we want them to work on our own playfields.

    #18 11 years ago
    Quoted from Syco54645:

    Wow... At least you got the money back...

    Sure, but before he had a playfield that could easily be restored.

    Now what does he have?

    #19 11 years ago
    Quoted from Barron:

    The last thread that was started complaining about GAP (albeit a dude crying about not getting a call back about Metallica LE) was shut down really quickly. Yet the thread flaming Mike at MAD remains open. Tread softly!

    There is evidence presented in this thread. There should be no reason to tread lightly unless somebody is going to send their thugs to take care of it. There is definitely a gang mentality with some pinsiders and that is pathetic from where I come from.

    #20 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Now what does he have?

    a nightmare

    #21 11 years ago

    Nom nom nom..

    popcorn_eat_good.gifpopcorn_eat_good.gif

    12
    #22 11 years ago
    Quoted from kbliznick:

    They are decent for amateur touch-ups.

    No, those are the worst touch ups in the world.

    They did not bother to even match the colors.

    They did not bother to mask straight lines or print text.

    The worst.

    #23 11 years ago

    That's worse than the hand painted Treasure Coves I've seen.

    excellent presentation of the situation.

    Sorry for all of you troubles.

    #25 11 years ago

    That looks terrible. I'm sorry that it's going to wind up costing you more to have redone

    #26 11 years ago
    Quoted from NJGecko:

    Wow. Curious to hear the other side of the story...
    But that's horrible!

    That makes two of us.

    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    Do you have any before pictures? I think you can chalk this up to "You get what you pay for."

    They are in the last link to gaps thead.

    Quoted from kbliznick:Ouch, All I can say is you got what you paid for with the touch-ups. They are decent for amateur touch-ups.
    The clearcoat has a nice shine.

    The clear is a disaster. Its just very hard to capture that in the pics. Look at the glare. Its supposed to be near flat.

    Quoted from spfxted:

    Was there ANY touchup work done at all...or just clearcoat??

    Every pic I took is of the touchups. Except for the traffic lights. They were left bare wood in places.

    Quoted from herg:

    Based on your agreement, it sounds like you showing pictures of their work is just you holding up your end of the bargain. It certainly allows us potential customers to judge and decide if we want them to work on our own playfields.

    Exactly. Im just doing an honest account of what happened and pics of the work as asked. No name calling or cursing. This is what he asked me to do when this whole thing started 10 months ago. Thats why I was so shocked to see this.

    #27 11 years ago

    have to agree, those look pretty horrid

    #28 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Now what does he have?

    Firewood.

    #29 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    kbliznick said:

    They are decent for amateur touch-ups.

    No, those are the worst touch ups in the world.

    I've seen much much worse.

    PF is still very restorable in this condition, however the cost to do a perfect restoration usually exceeds the cost of buying a repro pf so you are betting off buying a CPR repro. Even though the run is closed pf's there are usually leftovers available once the pre-orders are fulfilled.

    I do commend GAP for doing the right thing and refunding you every penny spent to fix their mistake. And it does look better now than what it looked like when you sent it in.

    #30 11 years ago

    Sure, but before he had a playfield that could easily be restored.
    Now what does he have?

    This is exactly it. The PF is done now. The mistakes are buried to deep under to much clear. I have nothing to work with. And to think I restored the cab to match what I thought was coming in the mail. Heres the cab I did.

    P4150054.JPGP4150054.JPG

    #31 11 years ago

    You have to screw up the cab a bit to match the playfield...

    #32 11 years ago

    That sucks.

    #33 11 years ago

    Terrible touch-ups. Looks like a blind monkey did those.

    #34 11 years ago

    Talk to ron kruzman if you want it done right. The key to this type of work is it's expensive. If you don't spend a lot of money you'll get crap work. To fix all of the areas that are bad on your playfield I would expect to pay 1200, maybe more. This type of work cannot be done cheaply.

    #35 11 years ago

    Hopefully Mike will respond and give his side of the story.There must be a logical explanation here.

    #36 11 years ago
    Quoted from Barron:

    The last thread that was started complaining about GAP (albeit a dude crying about not getting a call back about Metallica LE) was shut down really quickly. Yet the thread flaming Mike at MAD remains open. Tread softly!

    This thread is an honest review of a situation that originally started here on pinside. My part of the deal was to do exactly what I'm doing now, post a review and pics. As long as everyone acts mature and keeps themselves composed I would be disappointed if this thread were closed. Its no different than the MAD thread. I understand their are two sides to every story and I want to hear the other side also. I asked what happened and didnt get a real answer.

    #37 11 years ago

    That's not very nice,he could make a shelf, napkin holder, birdhouse ,the options are numerous ,minus 1.

    #38 11 years ago
    Quoted from Skypilot:

    That's not very nice,he could make a shelf, napkin holder, birdhouse ,the options are numerous ,minus 1.

    lol, no I take that back LMFAO

    #39 11 years ago

    Besides installing mods and shopping games, GAP has always been very overpriced for what he does. You hit the nail on the head, anyone can shop a game and install mods, a degree in art means nothing if that person is not an artist.

    Thanks for sharing, it's important.

    #40 11 years ago

    i am sorry to hear this...you have a great cabinet now, maybe turn it into a HyperPin?

    that is a project that i am debating taking on myself

    #41 11 years ago
    Quoted from chessiv:

    Talk to ron kruzman if you want it done right. The key to this type of work is it's expensive. If you don't spend a lot of money you'll get crap work. To fix all of the areas that are bad on your playfield I would expect to pay 1200, maybe more. This type of work cannot be done cheaply.

    Quoted from chessiv:

    Talk to ron kruzman if you want it done right. The key to this type of work is it's expensive. If you don't spend a lot of money you'll get crap work. To fix all of the areas that are bad on your playfield I would expect to pay 1200, maybe more. This type of work cannot be done cheaply.

    Certainly not all people feel this way but IMO if its going to cost more to properly restore it than buy an NOS its not worth doing. Id say the rare NOS would be around $1200.

    #42 11 years ago

    Wow.

    #43 11 years ago

    I have no knowledge of this, but from what I have read of GAP, this doesn't look like anything he would allow out. I wonder if he has so much work he is subcontracting out, or having someone of less experience work with him to do some of the perceived easier PFs.

    That is too bad, I’m sure we all feel your frustration, money back or not.

    #44 11 years ago

    There are great people in this hobby that sometimes take on more than they can really tackle. I seem to do the same thing when it comes to buying pins, however when it is your business, you don't send a very strong message when you don't stand behind what you state you will do.

    #45 11 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Sure, but before he had a playfield that could easily be restored.
    Now what does he have?

    I was just trying to soften the blow...

    p.s. BOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYY!

    #46 11 years ago

    um ....really don't know what to say. I could never color inside the lines as a kid and haven't tempted to touch up beyond a few little spots, BUT give me a gaggle of different colored sharpies and I would of done better then that...my goodness that was brutal to look at. Sorry for your loss! I would like to hear from others that have used this company to see if the results were similar....

    #47 11 years ago
    Quoted from stretch2:

    Hopefully Mike will respond and give his side of the story.There must be a logical explanation here.

    Of course there is a logical explanation. He doesn't know how to do touch up work. Doesn't get more logical than that.

    #48 11 years ago

    Heartbreaking. No matter the situation with the owner, I couldn't see myself messing up someone's playfield like that simply out of respect for the playfield.

    #49 11 years ago

    My family business growing up was a body shop. I've done a lot of sanding and clearcoat in my time. I'm going to be constructive here and not worry about how you got there, but ways you might be able to salvage your playfield.

    You can sand a lot of that clear off. I'm not saying that you can bring it back to the wood easily, but you can level it out so it's smooth. I forgot the name of the company but they did a presentation on how they restore playfields and after first cleaning them and sanding them, they put a thin layer of clearcoat down as a good base to start from. They start touching up over the clear. When they are done, they then clear over all of the touchup work.

    Sanding the playfield level, then maybe working to correct the touch-ups may work out. Granted, you can't erase what's been done already, but some of those areas can be covered over with a new background layer and the original image built back up. The car, the kickback, the 1000 insert, all have nice solid background colors that can be matched, painted over, and a new image put in place.

    I'm not saying that's easy, just that it's reasonable for someone with the artistic skills. It's not a a total loss IMO. You can still make it into a decent playfield.

    #50 11 years ago
    Quoted from chessiv:

    To fix all of the areas that are bad on your playfield I would expect to pay 1200, maybe more. This type of work cannot be done cheaply.

    Dosen't matter...he agreed to do it for free. Doesn't mean you should do a crappy job...

    There are 134 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

    This topic is closed.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-touchup-and-clear-by-gap-fail/page/1 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.