(Topic ID: 273826)

Playfield swap- front side dimple locations

By emsrph

3 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by emsrph
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

Finally making progress on my Flight 2000 CPR swap. All mechs and posts etc removed from old playfield.

I know repro dimples can be off on the back so you should move them. But on the front side how can you move holes where it is visible?

Compared to my original, the ball guide holes on the right side are off by the width of the slot (about 1/8”). Maybe that amount of discrepancy is ok? Left side is spot on.

Do you just try to cheat over a little when you drill using all of the dimple but not centering on it? That’s going to be tough to not have the bit in the center.

Was reading to use brad point bits. What size drill bit for a ball guide wire (1/16”, 5/64”)?

Thx

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#2 3 years ago

Subbing and bumping

#3 3 years ago

Do not use CPR's holes on the right or you'll have to put a smaller post on the top like I did. They are off enough that the ball can't drain with the bigger normal post in there.
Get an automatic center punch to put a new pilot hole where it belongs. If you have to make the entire hole bigger that's fine, you're drilling through it anyway, and the bottom of the post covers it.

Definitely drill all the way down for posts if you aren't using the carriage bolt style from the original playfield, CPR's wood is harder than the original and you will snap posts.

Double check the maze area before drilling, everything has to be 100% correct up here or the geometry won't work.

Consider the posts behind the 5 bank moving them back a very slight bit (if you can.... still it's part of the maze!) - If you use new 5-4-3-2-1 targets they will tend to brick if not.

Get a larger drill and precut the clearcoat around holes once you've decided where to put them. I make sure I cut it bigger than the screw so there's no possibility of the screw twisting the clearcoat as it cuts its threads. I changed as many of the posts as I could to machine thread type just because I like them better (if you snap a machine threaded post, you can remove the T-nut and pound the post down through the PF since it doesn't thread into the wood at all) If you're using the original carriage bolts make sure when you pound them up through the PF you won't lift the clear using the same clear cutting method. Do NOT use the drill bit in a drill to do this! It will bite in and make a mess of things quickly (which the post should still cover....but still....). You just kind of run it by hand lightly to cut out the clear.

That's the high points that I recall from doing mine 10 or more years ago. Be very careful driving screws and posts into anything where it's near an edge as if that screw snaps, you have a real issue on your hands getting it out without damaging the edge. (Dealing with that on a Joker Poker right now..... ugh.)

I have a drill guide (cheap at hardware store) that I keep around, put the post/screw into it, then select a drill bit that's a size or 2 down (to account for the threads if it's a wood type, use the same size drill if it's a machine post).

#4 3 years ago

These will be tricky as the hole you drill for these are small with nothing to cover it up after, compared to a starpost which affords you some wiggle room. Depending on how far over you need to relocate can determine how hard it will be to drill. You won’t want the existing dimple to guide your but back to the wrong location. You could use a pointy dremmel bit and make a new dimple maybe. I use an automatic center punch to mark new holes but i remove clear first so i don’t risk forming a crack.

I drilled mine tight at first for a friction fit but the size was too tight for my likely (cant recall diameter). So i drilled the next size up, dipped the end of the wire guide into Titebond III (or just use some decent wood glue) and set them to the right height. They are solid.

#5 3 years ago

Consider buying a manual drill. A hand crank drill for ultimate control when starting holes.

Amazon.com

Type in “manual drill“. You will also see pin vises in this search.

#6 3 years ago

Lots of good info to digest. Thank you everyone. I think I at least now understand the process and which new tools I’ll need (auto center punch, manual drill, bit gauge, more bit sizes...).

I may have to totally abandon some dimples and they will show, at least for the wire guides. How’s that going to look?

Need to wrestle with which holes should be moved and by how much. Everything on that side is related to the inlanes, feed to the flipper and outlane. The old playfield that I stripped and traced has never been in a working game of mine. Maybe I should also take some measurements from my working playfield but don’t want to pull out the wire guides?

Any further tips on how to figure which holes to move or not move would be great! Sometimes figuring spatial relationships gets me flummoxed so it’ll be slow going so I don’t move the hole in the opposite direction.

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#7 3 years ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Consider buying a manual drill. A hand crank drill for ultimate control when starting holes.

This is good advice, but I’d also like to throw in my 2c that not all power drills are alike. I recently upgraded from Craftsman C3 to modern Dewalt tools, and it’s crazy how much better the dewalt trigger control is. On the low speed setting I can easily feather the trigger to the point the drill takes many seconds to do **one** rotation. Having the drill turn a consistent speed helps you focus on how much pressure to apply which is also key here.

#8 3 years ago

My power drill has the fine trigger control as well, I use the manual in case I slip on the trigger (which has happened, I'll be drilling a hole with a certain amount of pressure and it's fine, but then you hit a soft ply and zip through. Usually to the bottom as I use a drill stop when going bottom to top).

#9 3 years ago

Pull the wire guides. Stern guides pull easy enough.

Get a piece of flat wood like paint stir stick. Lay that under the guide and gently pry up with a flat blade screwdriver.

#10 3 years ago

I'm not seeing any difference from post #1 right side pic and post #6 pic. Can you add an arrow to the trace paper?

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I'm not seeing any difference from post #1 right side pic and post #6 pic. Can you add an arrow to the trace paper?

The trace paper in post #1 was made from a depopulated project playfield. The trace is on top of the new CPR playfield. When I line up the holes from the trace to the new playfield the switch slots are 1/8” offset vertically. Conversely if I line up the switch slots, the holes are not in the right place.

The pic in post #6 is from my still assembled working pin. I was going to take that right side apart and see if it was like the old or new playfield. If the pictures look the same that would make the traced project and populated playfield alike and the CPR different.

What did you want an arrow to point to?

How did your CPR swap turn out? Did you use those dimples or need to move them?

#12 3 years ago

First picture below compares my two original playfields. Pardon the roughness- I didn't remove everything from the assembled pin, but cut around stuff. The hole locations and switch slots are virtually identical. So it is the CPR field that is off.
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In the second picture after more studying the tracing, the holes on the repro are NOT significantly off...it's the 3 switch slots on the right side that are located too far to the right by about 1/8". Not sure what I could or should move without throwing the whole thing off. Since the holes are correct, the lane widths are what they should be. The switch slots are just pushed to the right some. Would that have any negative effect?
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slochar - Trying to imagine why the post at the top of the outlane would block the drain on yours. It seems to be in the right spot on mine and no closer to the side rail. It looks like only the switch slots are off. Maybe your playfield had some other discrepancies?

Thanks all. The tips provided were very helpful. I'll keep moving forward and look out for other issues as I go.

#13 3 years ago

The only thing will be to make sure the ball properly activates the roll over switch when it passes over. You do have a bit of play side to side when you installed the rollover too, but i wouldnt want it rubbing against the side of the slot. I dont think 1/8” will result in it not triggering the switch but worth verifying this.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

In the second picture after more studying the tracing, the holes on the repro are NOT significantly off...it's the 3 switch slots on the right side that are located too far to the right by about 1/8". Not sure what I could or should move without throwing the whole thing off. Since the holes are correct, the lane widths are what they should be. The switch slots are just pushed to the right some. Would that have any negative effect?

Quoted from Completist:

The only thing will be to make sure the ball properly activates the roll over switch when it passes over. You do have a bit of play side to side when you installed the rollover too, but i wouldnt want it rubbing against the side of the slot. I don't think 1/8” will result in it not triggering the switch but worth verifying this.

To check out whether the 1/8" discrepancy will effect the ball actuating the rollover over guides, get a couple of pieces of wood and some double-back tape. Tape the pieces of wood to the play field by lining them up with the ball guide holes i.e. make a chute for the ball to roll through (it does not have to be two pieces of wood. It can be two pieces of angle iron, or two pieces of hard plastic. Anything that can make a chute). If the ball actuates the rollover wire then you are golden. And usually, not too many are going to notice a 1/8" mis-location to the right.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Trying to imagine why the post at the top of the outlane would block the drain on yours. It seems to be in the right spot on mine and no closer to the side rail. It looks like only the switch slots are off. Maybe your playfield had some other discrepancies?

I wouldn't doubt it. I don't know what method CPR uses to spot the holes, (nor what any other repro maker uses, for that matter) but I've never had a replacement playfield where 100% of the holes were correct. It's actually why I preferred the IPB repro of EBD as it was unspotted and I put all the spots exactly where I wanted them, based on experience.

Likely it's a combination of the rail being scootched to the left a slight bit and the post going to the right a little bit that caused it. I never thought that the switch slots would be wrong though, that's a pretty serious error.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Likely it's a combination of the rail being scootched to the left a slight bit and the post going to the right a little bit that caused it. I never thought that the switch slots would be wrong though, that's a pretty serious error.

Yeah, that's why initially I assumed it was the dimples that were wrong...

Probably of no significance (I hope).

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

The trace paper in post #1 was made from a depopulated project playfield. The trace is on top of the new CPR playfield. When I line up the holes from the trace to the new playfield the switch slots are 1/8” offset vertically. Conversely if I line up the switch slots, the holes are not in the right place.
The pic in post #6 is from my still assembled working pin. I was going to take that right side apart and see if it was like the old or new playfield. If the pictures look the same that would make the traced project and populated playfield alike and the CPR different.
What did you want an arrow to point to?
How did your CPR swap turn out? Did you use those dimples or need to move them?

I see it now, I thought the wire guide holes were off. I'm not sure why this happens on CPR. The only thing I can say is that not all PF's are made the same, or same mfr either. It's possible that the used more than one pf for dimples and the cnc cuts? There's not a whole lot you can do without defacing the top side. maybe do some tests with the ball and temporary install the wire giudes but only set them in part way?

My swap was ok except I had issues with the ball hanging up on clear coat being too thick near the ball walker and trough area. Had to file some clear down in spots.

#18 3 years ago

What are you going to do with the old playfield?

1 week later
#19 3 years ago
Quoted from tyking:

What are you going to do with the old playfield?

I'll put the old playfield up for sale when my swap is complete.

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