(Topic ID: 293711)

Playfield lights, kick out hole not working, not getting 6.3vdc at tp1

By brian_owl

28 days ago


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  • 27 posts
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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by Knxwledge
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#1 28 days ago

Hello recently I lost all the Playfield lights and the kick out whole power and I have no power at the 2 10A under playfield light fuses and no power going to fuse F-5 on the power module and I do not have 6.3 volts DC in test point one on the power module. Is this related to the solenoid driver board. I have replaced all circuit boards with new ones except for the solenoid driver and squalk and talk. Help please I am new to troubleshooting. I just bought a dmm

#2 28 days ago

If the power supply board has the exact same design architecture as the original, the 6.3v DC is supposed to be generated by the first bridge rectifier on it. There's a chance your driver board sent a bad voltage back to the power supply board. What repairs have you done on this mahine otherwise? How handy are you with a soldering iron?

#3 28 days ago

Thanks for the response Knxwledge! I have basically been replacing boards one at a time, replacing fuses, I have tried to reflow soder on a few boards' pins . Im not that great at soldering I just have a basic soldering pen, no temp control, I am a beginner. The power module replacement board is brand new ( a week old) and this problem was happening with the old board too.

#4 28 days ago

I figured the new board with beefed up rectifiers may fix it. The old board was not in great shape anyway. I just got a dmm and I'm learning slowly. How would it send a bad voltage back?

#5 28 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

I figured the new board with beefed up rectifiers may fix it. The old board was not in great shape anyway. I just got a dmm and I'm learning slowly. How would it send a bad voltage back?

I am not educated enough on pins to explain it, honestly, and I dont want to BS you. Anyone else more experienced can feel free to chime in and tell me Im wrong, but from my limited knowledge I think it is possible.

What I would suggest is practice soldering first on a garbage board of any electronics you have laying around the house. If youre gonna get deeper into the hobby and repairs I would buy a Hakko FX-888, and a Soldapult (or a Hakko Fr-301 if you can shell out the dough).

I would rebuild, send off for repair, or buy a new replacement driver board, then check the components and wiring in the applicable circuits of your power supply board. Also check your transformer is wired properly. Was there any visual indications of failure (smoking, burned components), etc?

#6 28 days ago

Ok thanks! No there was no indication of burning. I looked at the back of the solenoid driver board and reflowed the soder on the pins didn't see anything burned up on the front or back. Or on any other boards as well. The only thing that is burnt up is from a while ago the ground pin on one of the wire harnesses on the aux lamp driver board. But I took that wire to the other two ground pins right next to the burnt one. So something happened in the past. I just got the machine in November and had it working for a few months after getting a few other boards. I might as well get a replacement solenoid driver board and see what happens next.

#7 28 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

Ok thanks! No there was no indication of burning. I looked at the back of the solenoid driver board and reflowed the soder on the pins didn't see anything burned up on the front or back. Or on any other boards as well. The only thing that is burnt up is from a while ago the ground pin on one of the wire harnesses on the aux lamp driver board. But I took that wire to the other two ground pins right next to the burnt one. So something happened in the past. I just got the machine in November and had it working for a few months after getting a few other boards. I might as well get a replacement solenoid driver board and see what happens next.

If you decide to get a replacement driver board, I wouldnt move on with your troubleshooting until youre 100% sure your power supply is giving you correct voltages. Do all tests with everything unplugged besides the power supply board, to ensure you dont damage anything. Did you check the fuses with continuity test on the power supply board? From your description of how it just all together stopped working, maybe fuse(s) blew. Fuses blow for a reason though, dont just replace them then assume the problem(s) will go away.

#8 28 days ago

so, br1 on the brand new power supply board is reading 0 . which means it is shot? i dont get it . the bridge rectifiers on the original werent even shot. what causes this to happen? could it come like this brand new?

#9 27 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

so, br1 on the brand new power supply board is reading 0 . which means it is shot? i dont get it . the bridge rectifiers on the original werent even shot. what causes this to happen? could it come like this brand new?

What are you measuring to have it tell you 0? BRs are essentially 4 diodes, so you should use diode test on it, and compare it to the other BRs. I can't remember if you have to pull it out of circuit for an accurate reading or not, you have to with normal diodes.

#10 27 days ago

Ok so I called and spoke with a tech that works for the company i purchased the power module board from because I didn't get a schematic with it. He said that br1 on the board gets its voltage from j6 connector, told me which two wires from j6 to test for current, and i got nothing at those points. Which means that either i have a bad transformer or a break in the wires before the power module. My question now is does the power go through the solenoid driver board before it gets to the transformer? Could a bad driver board make you not get any current from the transformer. ......whether it is the cause or not we will soon see. i decided to buy a new alltek solenoid driver board because the old boards in this machine aren't in the greatest condition. I figured no matter what it was a good investment there are safety features on it to protect the game.

#11 27 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

He said that br1 on the board gets its voltage from j6 connector... My question now is does the power go through the solenoid driver board before it gets to the transformer? Could a bad driver board make you not get any current from the transformer.

My apologies, I didn't realize this game used a different power board than the earlier Ballys I'm more familiar with. Schematics (I assume the original and the LE use the same hardware):
https://www.ipdb.org/files/5021/Bally_1984_Eight_Ball_Deluxe_English_Manual_with_paginated_schematics.pdf

The question I would have is did this game ever work in your possession, or did you buy these boards in order to get it going? You say "recently I lost all the power", so that to me means it was working fine, then started giving you issues, but I want to make sure. Which power board did you buy?

It looks like J6 is the connector which sends power from the transformer to the board (printed page 28, pdf page 33), so if you're sure you measured the pins on J6 correctly and you're not getting anything, then I would ensure the wiring going from the transformer to J6 is in good shape, passes continuity test, has solid solder joints on the transformer itself, etc. Some pictures might help. It's very unlikely your transformer is bad, it pretty much takes the intention to kill one, or extreme carelessness to do it, they won't die on their own.

If all the wiring looks solid and you're getting continuity where you should, measure the AC voltage on the transformer itself by putting one lead of your DMM on one lug, the other on the second lug. There should be 2 lugs associated with each voltage (two for 115v, two for 60v, etc. etc.). Putting one lead on ground one lead on a lug won't give you accurate reading. Pdf page 50 for the schematics of the transformer.

The solenoid driver board generates HV for the displays but outside of that all other power in the machine is generated from the power board.

#12 27 days ago

Hey yeah sorry i never said it is an eight ball deluxe limited edition. When I got it it was working but shortly after something similar happened .that time I replaced the solenoid expander board because I read all of the forums about similar things. It ended up being the fuses under the playfield. This time may be the same but the fuses under the playfield seem to be fine but have no voltage.. no kickoff, no controlled playfield lamps..... lamp test doesn't flash. I know the kickout needs the light near it to work, and therefore the control lights need to work....... this machine was in a basement, it had mold all on the inside and on the playfield, the mpu had corrosion. So i replaced it. I replaced the lamp driver board and aux lamp driver board before i knew why the lights were out. So basically I have been slowly replacing the boards.... they are all a little corroded here and there. This is bally replacement power module a2 from pinball life.......
I took the transformer setup out of the cabinet. The wires come out of what seems like a cardboard wrap around. Do i peel this off to reveal lugs that the wires soder to?

#13 27 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

I took the transformer setup out of the cabinet. The wires come out of what seems like a cardboard wrap around. Do i peel this off to reveal lugs that the wires soder to?

No! Don't do that. I looked up pictures and it looks like some Bally transformers don't have the lugs I'm talking about, and instead the wires come directly out of the winding (cardboard wrap part), leading to the male molex plugs. Yours might be one of those (pic below). If there aren't any obvious test points labeled with different voltages, then test the AC voltages by sticking your DMM leads in those male molex plugs, using the method I outlined earlier. Game has to be on (obviously), and be careful not to shock yourself or short wires together. You will have to look at the schematic to see which colored wires correlate with what voltage to know which two pins to pick

Picture's worth a 1000 words, post a pic of your power assembly if you can.

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/124063721787_/Bally-E-122-142-Pinball-Machine-Transformer-Power-Supply-AS-3071-2.jpg

#14 27 days ago

Yeah thats mine

20210520_230331 (resized).jpg
#15 27 days ago

no lugs. The tech that I was talking to on the phone told me to measure the voltage at the corresponding wires on j6 and that's what I did to find that I don't have current going to j6 from the transformer. The wires are just braded together with the red wire of the transformer.

#16 27 days ago

Hey sorry I'm an idiot. How embarrassing. Im new at this . Once I switch to AC voltage on the tester,,,, duh. i see I am getting 10.6 v coming out of the transformer. And the wire is fine. And i am getting the same voltage at the j6 connector on the power module. Does that sound ok? I was confused when the tech was asking me to test things on the phone. So according to him tp1 is for the br1 circuit . And i still have no 6.3vdc at tp1. Which makes me think my first thought. The bridge rectifier is bad. Which is why I called them. I just got the board 5 days ago.

#17 27 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

Hey sorry I'm an idiot. How embarrassing. Im new at this . Once I switch to AC voltage on the tester,,,, duh. i see I am getting 10.6 v coming out of the transformer. And the wire is fine. And i am getting the same voltage at the j6 connector on the power module. Does that sound ok? I was confused when the tech was asking me to test things on the phone. So according to him tp1 is for the br1 circuit . And i still have no 6.3vdc at tp1. Which makes me think my first thought. The bridge rectifier is bad. Which is why I called them. I just got the board 5 days ago.

Got it, got it. So no voltage drop from the transformer to the J6 connector is good. What part of J6 are you measuring, and what voltage does it say it's supposed to be in the manual according to page 50? If your actual reading is higher than what's stated in the manual that is most likely okay, because the voltage is unregulated. Did you pull the fuse associated with that test point out and check it with continuity test?

#18 27 days ago

Yes. I pulled the fuse. I tested it. Just for the hell of it i tested another brand new one and put that in. It is the 20A f1 fuse. The schematic says for the purple/ black stripes wire coming from an E122-142 transformer it should be 9.4vac. I am reading 10.6vac.

#19 27 days ago

The br1 circuit that im not getting 6.3vdc at tp1 is what powers the " sw ill bus " which is my controlled lights im assuming. If it is, then in turn it does not power the solenoid expander board's necessary lamp that is only there to power the kickout. It has to be the bridge rectifier 1

#20 27 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

Yes. I pulled the fuse. I tested it. Just for the hell of it i tested another brand new one and put that in. It is the 20A f1 fuse. The schematic says for the purple/ black stripes wire coming from an E122-142 transformer it should be 9.4vac. I am reading 10.6vac.

That's a good reading

Quoted from brian_owl:

The br1 circuit that im not getting 6.3vdc at tp1 is what powers the " sw ill bus " which is my controlled lights im assuming. If it is, then in turn it does not power the solenoid expander board's necessary lamp that is only there to power the kickout. It has to be the bridge rectifier 1

Yes, SW ILL BUS is your controlled lamps, GEN ILL BUS is your GI. In your initial post you said you had no power going to fuse F5. Are you other TPs giving you the correct voltages? Remember that F5 is linked to TP4 which is AC, NOT DC. If everything else is checking out okay, then I would test the BR 1 (and the 25ohm resistor R2 as well for the hell of it). I'm pretty sure you can do it in circuit, and compare the suspect BR with the other ones and see if you get a similar reading. Go to this link and scroll down to the section on BRs
https://homepinballrepair.com/understanding-pinball-ss-transistors-diodes-rectifiers/

Once you've confirmed BR1 is bad, I would contact them again and see what they have to say. I don't think a controlled lamp going haywire has the ability to blow a BR. Usually it would just cause the fuse to blow. They will want to make sure it's not a problem with your machine before they honor the warranty (I'm assuming it has some form of limited warranty).

#21 27 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

If it is, then in turn it does not power the solenoid expander board's necessary lamp that is only there to power the kickout.

I'm having trouble locating where the expander board gets its power in the schematics, but if you're sure that it's powered from the same power as the controlled lamps, then an easy way to confirm would be to put it in coil test. If only the ball kicker coil which is powered by the expander board isn't working, and if the solenoid driver board doesn't control the expander board in any way (I'm not sure if it does or doesnt), then you know it's not your solenoid driver board. Visually inspect the expander board if you haven't.

#22 27 days ago

Thanks for all of your help by the way! I was up late looking at the schematics. Yes, I didn't realize that F5 was AC. So that is fine. All the voltages at the test points are good except for tp1...... on the wiring diagram for the Playfield it says the solenoid expander relay gets its power through a 1amp slow blow under the Playfield from the + 43 volt DC line from A2J1-7

#23 27 days ago

It is actually powered by an scr and it only gets its power when the lamp lights so the light circuit needs to work as well it's really weird

#24 26 days ago

So I called them and they're going to email me a return label so that I could send it back to them and they'll test it to make sure that it's the bridge rectifier and they'll send me a new one thanks a lot for your help I'll let you know what happens when I get it

#25 26 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

So I called them and they're going to email me a return label so that I could send it back to them and they'll test it to make sure that it's the bridge rectifier and they'll send me a new one thanks a lot for your help I'll let you know what happens when I get it

No problem, glad youre getting it resolved. Now would be a good time to shop the game out with a good cleaning, fresh rubbers (Titan rubbers are more expensive but are springier and last longer), new bulbs and a fresh coat of wax.

Also might be a good idea to rebuild the flippers, pop bumpers, drop targets.

2 weeks later
#26 6 days ago

Hey sorry I've been super busy. Im currently working on getting electricity underground through my back yard to a garage i had built....digging trenches and such. I took a bunch of readings on the multimeter. After talking with the tech on the phone again the br1 was fine. There was a problem with the continuity between the tp1 and the positive side of br1. He problem was Inside of the board somehow... so I did figure it out after a few mistakes on my end with wrong readings..... after I sent it back he tested it and tried to resoder just to make sure it was inside the board. In the end I got a brand new power module board from them and it works perfectly! I'm finally able to play again.... after replacing a messed up player 4 display the machine is back in complete working order! Thanks for all your help Knxwledge! Now i just need to figure out what causes the sound to cut in and out every now and then. And thats the last problem for now. Lol. I did get a chance to replace a few coils too

#27 6 days ago
Quoted from brian_owl:

Hey sorry I've been super busy. Im currently working on getting electricity underground through my back yard to a garage i had built....digging trenches and such. I took a bunch of readings on the multimeter. After talking with the tech on the phone again the br1 was fine. There was a problem with the continuity between the tp1 and the positive side of br1. He problem was Inside of the board somehow... so I did figure it out after a few mistakes on my end with wrong readings..... after I sent it back he tested it and tried to resoder just to make sure it was inside the board. In the end I got a brand new power module board from them and it works perfectly! I'm finally able to play again.... after replacing a messed up player 4 display the machine is back in complete working order! Thanks for all your help Knxwledge! Now i just need to figure out what causes the sound to cut in and out every now and then. And thats the last problem for now. Lol. I did get a chance to replace a few coils too

Nice, glad it's sorted. As for your sound issue, is the sound board new? If it's new, I would check the wiring at your speaker, and recrimp the connector that plugs into the sound board. If it's an original sound board, I would do that, and also recap the board, then go from there.

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