(Topic ID: 324421)

Playfield lights

By drksidemoon

1 year ago


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There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

Hello everyone....the playfield lights on my 1976 Gottlieb Surfer don't come on when I turn the machine on with the bottom switch but do come on when I start a game. Then when a game is over the lights stay on. Then when the machine sits for a while, maybe 20-30 minutes, the lights go off. Any ideas? Something getting hot? Thanks.

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#2 1 year ago

You got a transfer of power problem. You have checked your fuses to be good but also making continuity through the fuse holder and through it to the playfield?

#3 1 year ago

Wouldn't a bad fuse or continuity make the lights stay out all the time?

#4 1 year ago

Not necessarily. Can explain in detail later. But you should have power at the input of the fuse holder going through the playfield fuse to the playfield lights when the machine is turned on! If you do not you need to trace backwards.

#5 1 year ago

If I was home I would look at my ‘75 Gotlieb and give you direct info.

#6 1 year ago

Don’t want to dive into switches and relays if it is a bad connection.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from drksidemoon:

Then when the machine sits for a while, maybe 20-30 minutes, the lights go off

What's the Tilt Hold (H) relay doing when this happens?

#8 1 year ago

Here is where I would check.

1. re-seat the playfield jones plugs. Checking to ensure there are no loose wires. (focus on the white-blk and black-white wires)
2. Check the 10 amp fuse and fuse holder for the playfield lights (white and white-Red wires)
3. Check and clean the H relay switch with White-red/white-blk wires

I suspect the H relay or the fuse holder. after twenty minutes of playing, may shake the machine enough to get a better connection.

#9 1 year ago

Thanks all. I'll check all of these things and report back.

#10 1 year ago

Is the Tilt light on when the playfield lights are out?

#11 1 year ago

Tilt light is on when I turn the machine on and the playfield lights are out. Backbox lights are on. Hit play button, tilt light goes off, playfield lights go on, game starts as normal.

#12 1 year ago

With the game on and no lights on the playfield, I manually push the tilt hold (H) relay and the playfield lights stay on. Wait ten minutes and the H relay disengages (is that word?) And the playfield lights go out.

#13 1 year ago

Ok the problem your having is your playfield lights are going out while machine is on after play has ended for about 20 minutes correct?
1. Playfield lights do not come on when machine is first turned on until a game is started. That is normal function.
Need you check for loose connections on any tilt mech. Even the tilt mechs theirselves for abnormalities.
I will look into schematics further later.

#14 1 year ago

The H-relay should hold itself on unless the tilt it triggered.
I would Clean and gap these switches.

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#15 1 year ago

Yes. After game over, the playfield lights go off after several minutes. And the tilt light comes on.

#16 1 year ago

Ok your tilt relay is probably getting tripped from your trip mechs( you have more than one). If you made sure you have all good connections. See while your game is in play move all your trip mechs to see if they all are working. If you can trip this relay without actually moving the trip mech problem could be solved quickly like moving a wire connected to mech. Remember a dirty switch doesn’t need solid contact to activate.

#17 1 year ago

New to this and sure am learning alot but......by trip mech do you mean the tilt switches?

#18 1 year ago

Yes. You should have one on the door, two in cabinet, one on playfield and maybe one in back box. At lunch I will open my ‘75 Gotlieb and let you know when I get back home.

#19 1 year ago

I manually activated the pendulum one. The one with the ball. The one in the coin door. The one on the bottom board the one under the playfield and they all tilted the machine. Then I turned the machine off and on again and it goes directly to tilt. Sounds like we're getting close to the problem? Update. I looked at and messed with each one and it seems the one under the playfield was causing that. Now it's back to the original issue.

#20 1 year ago

Well your tilt will not reset until a new game is started. That part tells me your reset is functioning properly. Not home yet but I believe there is one in the back box (the head). Now that connection pass through your jones plug. Disconnect and Make sure the pins are clean the reconnected.

#21 1 year ago

Also there should be one in bottom of cabinet by your score motor( it is round with a bunch of switches on it) the tilt mech should be around that area.

#22 1 year ago

I dont see one in the backbox but the one in the bottom looks a bit tampered with but seems to be working properly.

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#23 1 year ago

In my original post I said 1975. Actually it's a 1976.

#24 1 year ago

Yes someone cut a hole and bent it for some reason. lol! They could of just raised the leaf block. Ok try this since your just learning put a piece of paper of business card between every tilt switch on contact to make it in operational and see if the tilt relay trips by itself after a game is finished.

#25 1 year ago

Back box tilt switch. Far right side half way up.

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#26 1 year ago

Whoops wrong on sliding card in between tilt switches. Only do that if switch is normally open. The closed tilt switches clean them with a card or very fine grit sandpaper then clean with a card.

#27 1 year ago

Yep. The only place my head wouldn't fit. Pulled it further from the wall and I see it. I put in the cards. Won't even let me start a game.

#28 1 year ago

Just looked mine has a cut hole under it but not bent up like yours. Wonder if it has ever been replaced.

#29 1 year ago

Yep mention in my post before your I made a mistake on that.

#30 1 year ago

I cleaned all the switches on the tilt mechanism and the tilt hold relay and now the machine tilts when I try to start a game. H relay won't stay in when I push it manually now.

#31 1 year ago

Ok there are three switches that are anti-cheat that are normally closed. (1st image)
One on the coin door, one in the lightbox and one called the Bounce switch on the mech. board.
Check the colors and make sure they are closed and making good contact.

There are also 3 tilt switches that are normally open. the ball, pendulum and one under the playfield (2nd image)
Check the colors and make sure they are open and are not too sensitive. Normally the playfield one can be 1/2 inch or more apart.

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#32 1 year ago

Yep go back and redo what you did make sure the closed tilt switches are clean and closed.

#33 1 year ago

Off topic- are those pinup matchbooks on the wall near your game?

#34 1 year ago

Yes. I collect matchbook. I have thousands.

#35 1 year ago

Double check that tilt switch by score motor. It should be closed. Someone has bent that switch before and might be your original problem in the first place. They might of bent it to get a better connection. If you cleaned it it could of reopened it.

#36 1 year ago

All tilt switches seem to be working properly and making good contact. The machine is now stuck on tilt.

#37 1 year ago

I’ll send a pm. Playfield and headbox tilt switches should be open.

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#38 1 year ago

They are open along with the one with the ball and pendulum.

#39 1 year ago

Don't confuse the anti-cheat switches with the tilt switches.
Anti-cheat switches are usually NC, and when they open, they drop out the hold relay. This effectively shuts off the game.
The hole in the bottom board below the lead weighted slam switch was done at the factory.
All games of this era have this type of arrangement. As long as this switch is closed and making good contact, it shouldn't pose any problems.
Tilt switches are usually NO, and when closed, trip the tilt relay, causing the tilt light to illuminate, and the playfield power and lights to go out.

#40 1 year ago

I believe all the tilt switches and anti cheat switches are working like they're supposed to but the game stays in tilt mode. Ball ejects but stays tilts. Drain the ball, goes to ball 2, it ejects and tilts again.

#41 1 year ago

So when ever it tilts after next ball does the playfield goes out or is the tilt light just on?

#42 1 year ago

It could be that only the tilt lamp is staying lit. Does the game have playfield power otherwise?

#43 1 year ago

No. Its tilted. Playfield is dead. When the next ball ejects, playfield lights flash then stay out. Tilt light stays on.

#44 1 year ago

You said you cleaned the tilt hold relay switches? How did you clean them? Some where today you have came across your problem if it was a switch or wire you messed with or touched it. Now we need to isolate it.

#45 1 year ago

I just touched them a little with a little piece of 600 grit. Made sure they are making and breaking. No broken wires.

#46 1 year ago

Did you clean contacts out good with a business card or playing card to get all grit out afterwards?

#47 1 year ago

Yes. I did the tilt relay also.

#48 1 year ago

Can you manually activate tilt Hold relay and cause the tilt light to go out?

#49 1 year ago

Yes but I have to hold it in. The playfield lights come on and tilt goes off and everything works on the playfield. When I release it, it goes back to tilt mode. Earlier today I could push it in and would hold.

#50 1 year ago

I think this might be deeper. At the beginning I was hoping a bad connection that was putting it in a tilt condition. Now I believe your control bank relay switches are not holding your TILT HOLD relay in normal operating condition. Your TILT relay does not activate unless open tilt switch like the bob tilt closes. I believe Relay ZB and SB1 in control bank is connected to tilt hold relay if you want to know what activates it. This control bank can be a pain in the ass to clean switches on its relays and those switches do get really dirty after a while. A cardboard cover folds over it to protect it from anything that might drop on it. Small burnishing tool seems to get in the small spaces for me. Especially if it is just one switch in the back of eight switches. If that rack gets just slightly out of alignment a person just wants to walk away. Kinda hard to point you right to the problem. But if you can track down the control bank relay switch that connects to tilt hold relay clean them this probably would solve this problem. If you shine a light on these switches and relays and there covered in coil dust you might want someone that had some experience messing with this control bank. I remember my first time cleaning a hard to reach control bank switch. First time I did it it working for about a hand full of plays. By the 3rd time into it I thought I was over doing it cleaning the contact but it has not been a problem since. Mine still has coil dust all inside control bank but I go by if it’s not broke don’t mess with it on a Pinball machine!
If i lived closer I help you fix it. Two way problem is it being activated into tilt condition or is it finally not resetting itself into normal non tilt function. Good luck!

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