(Topic ID: 180509)

Playfield haze

By UltraPeepi

7 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 33 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by arolden
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

I bought this TOM from photos. When it arrived, I thought the playfield was dull, but a good cleaning would make it shine. I do not believe that any more.

Notice how the reflected light doesn't show the individual LEDs in the hazy area.

TOM_170205 - 1 (resized).pngTOM_170205 - 1 (resized).png

Is this haze "ball swirl" I hear so much about? It is in really good condition - but the haze is VERY noticeable. I have it torn down. So there is no better time to address this.

I picked a spot and scrubbed with novus 2, and I was able to reduce the haze, but only slightly.

Will novus 2 remove the haze with enough scrubbing? Will I be removing the protective coating in order to get the haze to match the shine I see under the slingshots?

#2 7 years ago

Wow that's weird! Looks like something was almost spilled there are reacted with the clear. It's only in that one general area? It's not ball swirl. Does it feel smooth to the touch? I don't think any amount of polishing will fix haze that's in the clear itself. If it's a surface thing, that's another matter. would probably get better with a random orbit polish

#3 7 years ago

Is that mylar? Can you find an edge with your fingernail?

#4 7 years ago

Almost looks like someone may have used a magic eraser to try and clean off the ball tracks and dulled down the factory clear. You could try some fine 3m polish on a small 3" pad and see if it buffs back.

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

something was almost spilled there are reacted with the clear

It is unlikely a spill. It is pretty much everywhere the ball could go.

Quoted from cody_chunn:

Is that mylar? Can you find an edge with your fingernail?

I did the fingernail test and it is definitely not mylar (I wish it was). It does feel smooth to the touch. There is mylar around each of the illusions. You can see dirt around the edge of the Straight Jack illusion. There is haze in the mylar as well.

Quoted from generalgman:

magic eraser to try and clean off the ball tracks and dulled down the factory clear

I've never used magic eraser. In Vid playfield restoration thread, he says not to use it unless you are wanting to clearcoat the playfield. And I definitely DON'T want to do that.

I used some significant elbow grease with novus 2, and I got it to shine enough to be able to see the individual LEDs in the reflection. But I don't think novus 2 will ever get the finish to match the areas under the plastics. And it will literally take me hours of scrubbing to get the whole playfield.

Is there any chance this is from abrasive/rusty balls? This machine came from a seaside area. The balls in it were fine; but they may have been replaced days or weeks before I got it.

I was really hoping someone was going to give me good news. I am now even more concerned.

#6 7 years ago

If scrubbing helped I'd say that's actually good news -- if it's on the surface it can be polished up. I'd go heavier than novus 2 though, and get a mechanical device to do the polishing -- $20 orbital at harbor freight. Of course a second opinion is always good -- can't say if maybe the clear has just been worn down completely?!? be interested to see others thoughts on this

#7 7 years ago

This is perhaps a better image. Notice the haze in the mylar. And notice the spotted haze appearing in an area where the ball doesn't go.

FYI, I have cleaned the entire playfield with naptha.

haze00 (resized).pnghaze00 (resized).png

#8 7 years ago

Oh, one more thing...there is a small place on the playfield where there are some DEEP gouges. I don't know what that's all about, and I don't care that much. My only point is, there is a solid layer of clear coat.

-3
#9 7 years ago

Ohhhh naphtha? That's something I would not use on clear -- I've seen and heard of it reacting with clear. It actually did a very similar thing to me on a cured varathane clear I did a few years ago.. used naphtha on a small spot and it caused that haziness. similar to what you describe.. I think it eventually polished out but I've never used naphtha since. --but it sounds like the haze was there prior?

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from UltraPeepi:

Oh, one more thing...there is a small place on the playfield where there are some DEEP gouges. I don't know what that's all about, and I don't care that much. My only point is, there is a solid layer of clear coat.

You're good to go then, polish the crap out of that thing

Just noticed you're just 1/2 hour away from me,ha! Small world!

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

but it sounds like the haze was there prior?

Yep. It was definitely there before.

Quoted from Mbecker:

It actually did a very similar thing to me on a cured varathane clear

It's good that naptha didn't harm mine; but it sounds like somebody used a product that had a similar reaction to yours.

I'll research, then experiment in less visible areas.

#12 7 years ago

Sould polish away pretty nicely. Just be careful. Maybe Treasure Cove's kit if you don't have anything else in hand. http://www.treasurecovepinball.com/polishing-kit.htm

Novus and orbital polisher with correct pad could also do the trick but takes more time.

-3
#13 7 years ago

I would hit it with goof off its works miracles on clear coated playfields! Just wipe it right off with windex or something.

#14 7 years ago

Re: the new pic;

The haze next to the pop bumper is normal, if more than average, ball wear.

The splotches where the ball can't get to is either a reaction to a chemical or mold or something.

"Good" news? I think all that stuff will disappear under a new clearcoat...with much care and attention in the prep and what product you choose.

IMO!

#15 7 years ago

Someone probably played it with rusty or pitted pinballs. I have rubbed out some bad stuff with automotive cutting compound then a lighter compound.

#16 7 years ago

I have a bunch of auto cutting compounds and pads if you're interested in borrowing.. they are like $15 each if you get several different levels. I'm not going to use them anytime soon so I'd be happy to lend you what you need. You could prob borrow the orbital as well...

I have not heard of goof off doing good for clear, but it will def ruin plastics I'd be wary of that stuff, pretty strong.

#17 7 years ago

Ive only used good old elbo greese to rub them out, try working one spot and see how it goes.

#18 7 years ago

When you have that much haze in the topcoat.. you really need to compound and polish... that is something you can only do effectively with machine speeds.

Get the PF out, strip the top side, get a random orbital and set of different cuts for polishing and work it.

#19 7 years ago

Get some novus 3 do that then back to 2 and that might do it!

#20 7 years ago

I would try some 80 grit sandpaper. That will get that haze off quick.

#21 7 years ago

If you can rub it out by hand then it will probably come out reasonably quickly with a buffer. You could try sanding it but I would use 1500 or 2000 grit in a small spot to see how it would do.

#22 7 years ago

It looks like the previous owner used something to hand polish / clean the playfield and that it did more bad than good to the areas that it was supposed to improve. Maybe it was able to react more easily with the surface already worned out by ball travel. The small surface dots in the areas that never saw a ball are probably droplets that were not cleaned and had plenty of time to react with the clear. It would be interesting to know what was used so we can stay away from that stuff. Naptha should be safe with auto clear but not Varathane.

With the playfield fully stripped out you should be able to polish this. You need a machine for sure.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

You could prob borrow the orbital as well

thanks for the offer. Had I read this in time I may have taken you up on it. I went ahead and ordered one from Amazon. It was supposed to be next day delivery, but the snow came. It would have been nice to have it for the snow day.

I have been using an attachment on my drill, and the two compounds I already have: novus 2, and Meguiar's ScratchX2.0. Novus 2 seems to work better. I haven't been able to get ALL of the haze out - but I am encouraged.

Hopefully an orbital buffer will help. I also bought Novus 3 and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound (which is supposed to be more aggressive than ScratchX2.0).

I am going to be very careful. I don't want to repeat what the previous owner did.

#24 7 years ago

Good luck -- hope that does the trick!

#25 7 years ago

Thanks for the advice everyone. I decided to give the 80 grit sandpaper a try. JK.

I spent about an hour and a half tonight with the orbital buffer. I started at the top of the playfield, where it's less visible. Then I moved down to the worst of the haze - just above the flippers. I started with Novus 2, and switched to Meguiar's Ultimate Compound.

The spotted area at the top of the playfield cleaned up fairly quickly. I probably spent a total of 10 minutes on that: first with Novus 2, then switched to MUC.

Before - notice the spots around the reflected light. This is where the ball cannot go.
TOM_120207a - 3 (resized).pngTOM_120207a - 3 (resized).png

After
TOM_120207a - 26 (resized).pngTOM_120207a - 26 (resized).png

The bottom area took A LOT longer. I dare not break out the Novus 3. I just kept at it, checking my progress along the way. I probably spent 40 minutes on this area - again, first with Novus 2, then switched to MUC.

Before
TOM_120207a - 13 (resized).pngTOM_120207a - 13 (resized).png

After - still not perfect, notice the haze line running through the reflected light.
TOM_120207b - 1 (resized).pngTOM_120207b - 1 (resized).png

I really didn't think this haze would go away. It's going to take a while, but I think it will be good enough for me. This is a "refurbish", not a "restoration".

#26 7 years ago

Looks way better! I think the time to do the polish would go much faster with s slightly heavier cut, then work back to novus 2 which hardly has any cut at all, then carnuba wax.. but sounds like you've got it good.

#27 7 years ago

Looking good!

With the color scheme of this game, could this be called "Purple Haze"?

#28 7 years ago

Here is what I have deduced. A product was applied that "ate" into the clear coat and mylar. The speckles tell me it was sprayed on; and since no ball can travel where I found speckles, this tells me the plastics were still installed.

It probably didn't look hazy right away, but it may have softened the clear just enough for pitted balls to do the real damage. Because the bumper area was actually LESS damaged indicates that the bumpers were still installed at the time of the application, and that less product was used there.

FYI, the mylar shines up MUCH easier than the clear. This shouldn't be surprising; and shows just how hard the clear coat is.

What product, left on a playfield for an extended period, would eat into the playfield?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016/05/ten-things-that-can-really-mess-up-your-paint.html
According to this, here are some of the kinds of materials which will damage the clear coat:
* Gasoline
* Silly String
* Shaving Cream

#29 7 years ago

Previous owner was using the back glass as a mirror to shave in the morning?? Lol

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

When you have that much haze in the topcoat.. you really need to compound and polish... that is something you can only do effectively with machine speeds.
Get the PF out, strip the top side, get a random orbital and set of different cuts for polishing and work it.

This would make it look perfect

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

using the back glass as a mirror to shave

Right? Or maybe birds were pooping on it.

I spent about 3-4 hours with the orbital buffer, over the entire playfield. I mostly used Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. I know I could have switched to Novus 3 (and I did experiment a very little bit with Novus 3), but I was afraid of doing irreparable damage. I used two different buffing pad. The one I used the most, began looking pretty black. My guess is, the black was clearcoat.

I didn't get it perfect. There are ball trails in a few places. On those, I can feel the depression in the clearcoat. I was not interested in removing that much clearcoat. I was mostly wanting to remove the haze. Mission accomplished.

Maybe when I am more experienced, I will be more bold. This is a "refurbish" not a "restoration".

#32 7 years ago

Haze is gone -- that's what counts! That's a lot of polishing, nice work!

1 week later
#33 7 years ago
Quoted from UltraPeepi:

This is perhaps a better image. Notice the haze in the mylar. And notice the spotted haze appearing in an area where the ball doesn't go.
FYI, I have cleaned the entire playfield with naptha.

Regarding the haze at the left of this photo. I'm not so sure it's the same thing as the haze on the rest of the playfield. I see these little hazed spots on most B/W games. Sometimes it polishes out, sometimes not. Not sure what it is but it's quite common in my experience.

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