(Topic ID: 307228)

Playfield glass stuck.

By Tonup69

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 79 posts
  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Skybug
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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There are 79 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 2 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

It's normal. The glass, lockdown bar and side trim, all lift up in one piece, and are removable from the game if desired. There are thin metal prop rods in the top edges of the cabinet sides which can be pulled out to support the glass assembly if you choose to leave it on the game when servicing it. Bally made several models with this type of arrangement.

I've had a couple of later Bally games with the one piece glass and frame. I too thought it was jammed until I realised it was a one piece. Actually, I thought it was quite innovative, just like where you can raise some Bally motor boards so as to make service work much easier. A bit over-engineered perhaps but still handy as against an aching back!

#52 2 years ago

Okay thanks guys!! My beginner pinball book doesn't mention this fact, so I thought it was glued together by previous owner. Good to know that it's normal!

#53 2 years ago

And a Monte Carlo. Took me a while to figure out what was going on - had never heard of the glass in frame system

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#54 2 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Never owned a late '60s- early '70s Bally?

No. And apparently don't remember working on enough of them.

LTG : )

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from hjh632:

And a Monte Carlo. Took me a while to figure out what was going on - had never heard of the glass in frame system
[quoted image]

Yeah, I remember when I got my Fire Cracker and was surprised when the lock down, side armor and glass all lifted up together.

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from hjh632:

And a Monte Carlo. Took me a while to figure out what was going on - had never heard of the glass in frame system
[quoted image]

That's way cool way easy too get too the PF

#57 2 years ago
Quoted from hjh632:

And a Monte Carlo. Took me a while to figure out what was going on - had never heard of the glass in frame system
[quoted image]

Thanks for the photo! I will look for those metal prop bars.

#58 2 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

There are thin metal prop rods in the top edges of the cabinet sides which can be pulled out to support the glass assembly if you choose to leave it on the game when servicing it. Bally made several models with this type of arrangement.

That's interesting, so it's held up by the cabinet and not the head like my Jolly Ride? Do you know if the glass needs to be all the up with the Bally version?
One annoying thing with the Playmatic version is that I couldn't use the device that holds up the glass due to my ceiling being too low. I had to keep taking the whole thing off when I wanted to work on it. Luckily I have a higher ceiling in the new section of the pinball room, so no longer an issue.

#59 2 years ago

HIT IT WITH YOUR PURSE

#60 2 years ago

I found the metal rails!! So thin, they are practically buried into the wood so I couldn't find them at first.

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#61 2 years ago
Quoted from Skybug:

I found the metal rails!! So thin, they are practically buried into the wood so I couldn't find them at first.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Hopefully the glass is in good condition and you keep it that way. It's a bit of a pain to replace it, and it's not a standard sized glass.

#62 2 years ago

Oh, good to know, thank you! I will try to be very careful with it.

#63 2 years ago
Quoted from pins4u:

[quoted image]

My first machine, Galahad although the cabinet colors look a bit different so that could be Camelot.

#64 2 years ago

I recently shopped a guy’s Bally Odds and Evens which has the glass-in-frame set up. Spent some time trying to figure out how the lockbar comes off so I could slide the glass out. Then-lightbulb-hey this whole thing lifts up! Well whadaya know.

#65 2 years ago

And today I found out I can lift both glass and playfield! But is it safe? So convenient though.

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#66 2 years ago
Quoted from Skybug:

But is it safe?

Yes.

LTG : )

#67 2 years ago

Yes? Oh that's great!!

#68 2 years ago

As long as you don't start break-dancing on it you will be fine!

#69 2 years ago
Quoted from Skybug:

And today I found out I can lift both glass and playfield! But is it safe? So convenient though.
[quoted image]

You can also remove the glass assembly from the game, pull the playfield forward some, and tip it back against the lightbox to allow better access under the playfield.

#70 2 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

You can also remove the glass assembly from the game, pull the playfield forward some, and tip it back against the lightbox to allow better access under the playfield.

I like that too, thank you!

#71 2 years ago
Quoted from TwinDavid:

Well? How did you make out???

Sorry - I forgot about this post. GOOD NEWS! I got the glass off. I bought a suction cup at Home Depot used for tile work, I think. Anyway - that combined with some good old Kroil and a bit of heat did the trick. It was stuck pretty good in the back. Once I got it moving, I got it off.

Thanks for the suction cup tip!!

LTR

#72 2 years ago
Quoted from Tonup69:

that combined with some good old Kroil and a bit of heat did the trick.

Heat?
I once did a trade and once I got to it, the glass was stuck. Very stuck. It turned out
1/4" thick glass was crammed in the machine (I'm sure to pawn it off on someone
else) and the suction cup (alone) did the trick. Large singles are fine, but is it the
dual pad suction cup you have? Made purposely for glass..

#73 2 years ago
Quoted from Skybug:

My 1969 Bally Joust seems to have the lockdown bar glued to the glass, after unlatching it all lifts upwards as one piece, chrome edging and glass. Not normal, right?

This is referred to as a "canopy" or "awning" lift frame style playfield glass most commonly used during the 1960s and 70s by BLY/WMS. It was developed primary on the request of operators who had very large "banks" of game runs, and did not have the time to keep pulling the playfield off during morning maintenance periods and ball testing before an arcade opened, no place to properly put the glass, or simply installed games in locations that had tight spaces for "in the corner" games.

This game feature was discontinued in use due to excessive cost in the tail end of the 1970s roughly about the time of the earliest solid state games. I documented the design of this specific game feature as a part of my Ted Zale "Master of Pinball Innovation" book transcript (Bally Joust is part of his "zipper flipper" designs), which has not yet been published. However, this was not his invention. FYI, I need 6x more games quality photos, but I need to travel again to Europe with cameras and vertical tripod frame in tow to some very specific collections regarding exported games.

PLEASE BE AWARE, if an owner wishes to replace the glass due to age / scratches, it can be a nightmare, especially if there is a LOT of rust on the screws and frame. The frame can be difficult to dissolve the rust, unless an owner places the whole assembly in a bathtub. If you damage the multiple pieces without care which make up the frame or break off mount screws and nuts, it can be impossible to reassemble without redrilling mount bracket holes in the metal frame pieces. All parts slot and go together like a puzzle. Look carefully at the condition of the frame, BEFORE disassembly. I have literally watched one fall apart in my hands, as I did not realize the rust was the only thing holding the parts together!

Additionally, this BLY tempered glass size is much smaller than the modern standard pinball machine playfield glass.
Measure VERY carefully.

#74 2 years ago
Quoted from Skybug:

And today I found out I can lift both glass and playfield! But is it safe? So convenient though.

Properly remove the canopy playfield glass frame from the game when needing to work on the playfield.
It is NOT worth the risk. Respectfully, I must disagree with LTG. I will explain why.

There is a chance the glass canopy can slip from the channel slam onto the playfield due to twisting. (especially if BOTH safety bars is not correctly used, as often they can be missing), and the whole set of parts can drop into the cabinet, damaging the playfield, or the whole topside can fall into the lower assembly (really bad...). There is no "track" just the wood rest channel in the lower cabinet. If the entire mess falls into the cabinet, there will be a lot more issues to resolve.
I watched this happen personally, when an operators / owners were being careless several times over the past 30+ years.

Due to the age of the game, DO NOT use the wood "cheater bar" either on the playfield itself (not playfield glass), as they can cause the playfield paint to craze or crack due to dry warp. This is almost guaranteed and end up with a very "sad face". Look at Joust photos and see how the playfield is slightly leaning. Not good.

However, ALWAYS use BOTH slim metal "cheater bars" on the canopy glass (as found in the slots of the lower cabinet), if you must make a quick adjustment to the playfield or a ball is stuck. Mind your fingers on the cabinet, or you may get big splinters!

You can make a wood "slot bar" or homemade oversize "C" clamp, to hold a playfield in the FULL vertical position OR proper set of "prop bars" for for adjustable height if used with notches and temporarily mounted on the front on the lower cabinet near the coin door area for proper troubleshooting and maintenance. Both these types of bars equalize or minimize the stress and avoid the common warping of PF "cheater bars" problems.

FUN FACT: Did you know the ENTIRE LOWER assembly has its own rotational lift arm lock for making for repair in MANY Bally 60s/70s games? Look closely UNDERNEATH the lower assembly...you might be surprised.

Keep Flipping,

- TBK

#75 2 years ago

Thank you, TBK! Good information here. I didn't realize the playfield can be warped with the one cheater bar.
So, I have this New Lift Out Mounting Board sheet which I'm still trying to figure out, but it doesn't look like it's rotational. Looks like it rises up though.
And, (second pic) is this what you mean by slot bar?

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#76 2 years ago

The first photo shows the rotational lift bar for the lower assembly. The lower assembly does not rotate itself. This was primarily used for basic maintenance or get to wiring underneath without full bolt disassembly and cabinet wiring.

The second photo shows the lower cabinet PF channel guide, this is not a slot bar. A "slot bar" is a technician tool made from a single piece of wood (not metal because it is conductive) with groove cut to accommodate the leading edge of the front of the playfield and allow a PF to remain in the channel guide groove to be upright for maintenance securely with no chance of slip and even testing with the power on, but ONLY when required. The slot bar is attached to the backbox head via a 90 degree extension or other method, or the bar is double slotted to accommodate both easily. I prefer a locking latch, by slight modification of the backbox panel door.

Remember, EM pinball machines have HIGH POWER VOLTAGE energized with NO cutoff at any time when ON, and if not properly grounded when the power is OFF! Some specific parts are always energized regardless, so unless you a proper cutoff electrical circuit and toggle switch, I recommend UNPLUGGING the machine when not in use. They often retain residual charge as well.These are NOT modern machines. Electrocution is a danger, especially from coils and certain kinds of relays.

If you want to know more specifically about BLY Joust, you may watch my YouTube Ted Zale video regarding history, features, and gameplay.

#77 2 years ago

Thank you, I have watched your video and I will watch it again! BTW I have no trouble hitting #8 in the bagatelle, in fact I've gotten all numbers lit up, more than once!
Do you have a photo of a slot bar on the machine so I can grasp the concept more easily?
Thank you!

#78 2 years ago
Quoted from Skybug:

Do you have a photo of a slot bar on the machine so I can grasp the concept more easily?

Envision a "thick wood picture frame" with an 90 angle brace on one end that slips over the underside of the front of the playfield, and over the entire depth of the backbox from the front. The "L" end fits over the side of the backbox downwards. I prefer two rectangle notches with a couple inches between the "slots" versus a single gap for added frame strength.

You can make this tool from any reasonable 1/2 inch or (I prefer) thicker piece of plywood or do what some do, and make two of them, and fasten them together. The key is ensure it cannot slip off the backbox once installed by whatever method you prefer. I like latches, versus things like "bungee cords" which can spring back.

If I have time, I will take a photo from my shop.

#79 2 years ago

Thank you! I think I got it now!

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