Playfield Dimple Reality Check

CAN'T YOU JUST COAT A PLAYFIELD WITH EPOXY? (p1)

CAN YOU TEST WOOD FOR HARDNESS? (p1)

OLD WILLIAMS PLAYFIELDS DIMPLE THE SAME (p2)

HOW COME MY PLAYFIELD IS DEAD FLAT, BUT MY OUTLANES ARE DIMPLED LIKE THE MOON? (p2)

DOES HUMIDITY CAUSE GRAINING OR RIBBING? (p1)

HOW DO I KNOW IF A PLAYFIELD IS BIRCH OR MAPLE? (p1)

WOOD HARDER THAN STEEL? (p1)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'OLD GROWTH MAPLE' PLYWOOD (p5)

CAN WE ACTUALLY MEASURE HOW MUCH DIMPLES COMPRESS THE WOOD? (p6)

WOULD A THICKER CLEARCOAT PREVENT DIMPLES? (p4)

It seems like 3 times a week some newbie is saying that new pinball playfields are junk wood and dimple like crazy.

My buddy had a Medieval Madness that has sat folded up for 12 years in his basement. Never restored, not played since he joined the army.

Take a look at the protected area (under a ramp) here:

under.jpg

Post last edited 5 years ago.

#2 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

And a normal, unprotected area of the playfield here:

dimples.jpg

#3 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

So this should show you guys that even a lightly played Williams 90s game has millions of dimples.

After a while, you get so many dimples that all the wood fibers are as compressed as they are going to get and it "seems" smooth, but really isn't.

In the next few months, I'm going to put a good clear coat over this playfield to protect it, but that will not stop the dimpling.

The Stern playfields are still made by CCC, the same company that made most of the Williams playfields.

Once and for all: it's not new cheap wood, it's not Stern sucks, it's not crappy clear coat - it's just pinball.

#4 11 years ago

RND

RawleyD

Pinside member

Roanoke, VA

14y 67,650 3,243 36

Great post.
Tall Man dispelling rumors once again.

#5 11 years ago

ERJ

tracelifter

Inactive member

12y 80,300 6,318

Yer bummin' us out vid.

#6 11 years ago

JRM

NightTrain

Pinside member

12y 108K 5,098

Great post!

#7 11 years ago

CNH

ChadH

Pinside member

12y 92,400 2,859

Even WOZ will dimple the same way. It's just the way it is.

#8 11 years ago

RUM

Rum-Z

Pinside member

Adrian, MI

13y 150K 3,972 29

Nice post. Thanks!

#9 11 years ago

ROB

RobT

Pinside member

13y 129K 21,266 3 40

I had a super nice HUO NGG. It had dimples in the PF. While some thought this was a negative, in a way it actually showed it hadn't been played much because they hadn't evened out much.

#10 11 years ago

DNO

Pinside member

Highlands Ranch, CO

11y 73,800 1,976 45

Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

#11 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from DNO:
Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

My Orbitor 1 does not have any.

#12 11 years ago

FRX

Frax

Pinside member

Conyers, GA

12y 103K 16,662 2 9

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
My Orbitor 1 does not have any.

LOL....

#13 11 years ago

JRB

exflexer

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 86,150 1,650 1

I don't understand you mean that a steel ball can dimple wood???? That just doesn't make sense. Haha Pinball people are funny.

#14 11 years ago

CNH

ChadH

Pinside member

12y 92,400 2,859

Quoted from DNO:
Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

Is it because they are completely dimpled? And therefore, you cannot see the dimples?

#15 11 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

12y 141K 14,138

How are dimples actually formed? Air balls? Are air balls really that widespread?

#16 11 years ago

PNM

shock_me

Pinside member

14y 71,800 2,490

Quoted from Crash:
How are dimples actually formed? Air balls?

Yes for sure, but they are mostly formed by the ball changing direction rapidly and skipping across the pf a little bit. They add up over time.

#17 11 years ago

WYO

Ballsofsteel

Inactive member

Riverton, WY

12y 73,550 2,923 7 81

just another pic for vid and everyone. william 94 dh pre clear coat used pf;

dirtypreclear.jpg

#18 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

^ another great example.

#19 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from Crash:
How are dimples actually formed? Air balls?

Not just air balls, but balls that bounce off of posts and targets.

Of course balls that drop from ramps make many dimples too.

#20 11 years ago

???

Shoot_Again

Pinside member

Vancouver, WA

12y 83,400 8,453 2

Great example vid. Love that the orbitor 1 has none. =-)

Logic dictates that most woods are softer than most metals..... Pretty sure over time this will happen to even the hardest of woods.

#21 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from Shoot_Again:
Pretty sure over time this will happen to even the hardest of woods.

Yes, no doubt.

But the best part is; the more dimples you get, the flatter the playfield becomes.

So play the crap out of your games to compress all the wood fibers you can.

1 month later

#22 11 years ago

SMB

Concretehardt

Pinside+ Frequent

Eugene, OR

11y 145K 10,075 2 27

Do Mirco playfields dimple worse because they have so much clear coat on them?

// Error: Image 63154 not found //

#24 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from Concretehardt:
Do Mirco playfields dimple worse because they have so much clear coat on them?

Nope.

Steel ball = harder than clear coat.

3 months later

#25 11 years ago

TJD

Dawson

Pinside member

New Plymouth

12y 49,150 837 5

A buddy is trying to get me to use a epoxy 2 part clear coat over a fathom playfield? He claims it wicket hard and applys thick and is water clear , I thought it would be soft ?... I still might have the auto body guys apply an auto clear ... Anybody have any experience with epoxys ?

#26 11 years ago

JGI

John_I

Space Coast Pinball

19y 179K 9,076

Here is another reality check: I have seen NOS playfields from the 80s with cupped, raised and/or loose inserts. Installing LEDs under them would not have helped because they never had ANY lights installed under them.

#27 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from Dawson:
A buddy is trying to get me to use a epoxy 2 part clear coat over a fathom playfield? He claims it wicket hard and applys thick and is water clear , I thought it would be soft ?... I still might have the auto body guys apply an auto clear ... Anybody have any experience with epoxys ?

Epoxy usually yellows over the years. Too hard and the coating might crack.

And, the epoxy clear for bartops says to sand the wood with 80 grit so the epoxy has some tooth.

Stick with auto clear.

#28 11 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Quoted from John_I:
Here is another reality check: I have seen NOS playfields from the 80s with cupped, raised and/or loose inserts. Installing LEDs under them would not have helped because they never had ANY lights installed under them.

Yep, lots of NOS playfields with cupped inserts, especially if they don't have the jeweling on the backside.

They were only made to last 3 years, not 30...

#29 11 years ago

KRC

xbloodgreenx

Pinside+ Frequent

Los Angeles, CA

12y 58,300 780 3

Quoted from DNO:
Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

Show me these playfields. I guess if you never play your machines and enjoy them it's possible. I have never seen a non-dimpled playfield.

#30 11 years ago

JAC

Fatsquatch

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from ChadH:
Even WOZ will dimple the same way. It's just the way it is.

Clearly you are not familiar with the legendary "fit & finish" and build quality of WOZ. Nothing can hurt it; especially pinballs smacking down on the playfield.

#31 11 years ago

CWT

ChadTower

Pinside member

Plainville, MA

18y 50,550 928 9 8

Quoted from xbloodgreenx:
Show me these playfields. I guess if you never play your machines and enjoy them it's possible. I have never seen a non-dimpled playfield.

It's probably because all the dimples have been compressed already... looks flat because it's ALL dimpled.

#32 11 years ago

RUD

RudeDogg1

RudeDogg Customs

Barnstaple

11y 47,050 546 3

Quoted from Fatsquatch:
Clearly you are not familiar with the legendary "fit & finish" and build quality of WOZ. Nothing can hurt it; especially pinballs smacking down on the playfield.

thats because at this rate none of the playfields will ever see a ball lol

#33 11 years ago

JAC

Fatsquatch

Pinside+ Frequent

thats because at this rate none of the playfields will ever see a ball lol

lama.jpg

#34 11 years ago

DAV

Nuclear_Waste

Inactive member

Ava, MO

12y 46,650 496 6 35

Wondering: on ACDC, since the cannon essentially delivers an air ball with every shot, are the middle of those playfields going to see a pattern of accelerated wear in the landing zone?

#35 11 years ago

DAJ

Pafasa

Inactive member

Oakland, NE

12y 58,900 3,955 1

Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:
Wondering: on ACDC, since the cannon essentially delivers an air ball with every shot, are the middle of those playfields going to see a pattern of accelerated wear in the landing zone?

Yes

#36 11 years ago

JAC

Fatsquatch

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:
Wondering: on ACDC, since the cannon essentially delivers an air ball with every shot, are the middle of those playfields going to see a pattern of accelerated wear in the landing zone?

I've yet to see the cannon directly drop a ball on the lower playfield.

#37 11 years ago

JMS

swampfire

Pinside+ Addict

11y 168K 13,601 48

My DH has no wear that could be attributed to the gun (which is just a cannon by another name). I thought about protecting this area more, but hey, it survived a route without it.

#38 11 years ago

SMK

TheLaw

Pinside+ Addict

Ann Arbor, MI

12y 162K 48,066 19 30 1

Quoted from swampfire:
My DH has no wear that could be attributed to the gun (which is just a cannon by another name).

I think it's all luck. My DH has some divots for sure...but I never remembering noticing anything big on STTNGs that i've played.

#39 11 years ago

PEN

Inactive member

Bloomfield Hills, MI

12y 67,150 4,237 4 18

Quoted from TheLaw:
I think it's all luck. My DH has some divots for sure...but I never remembering noticing anything big on STTNGs that i've played.

I think it has something to do with owning the game. When its yours you inspect everything with a fine tooth comb. Also, It would take a long time for the dimples to even out in home use.

#40 11 years ago

???

Hammerhead1550

Pinside member

Clarksburg, WV

11y 46,050 540

Nice pictures, I never really thought about a playfield having that many dimples. I always thought people were complaining about the ball drop areas, some of my games look like these pics and I just though it was orange peel in the clearcoat from the factory.

#41 11 years ago

???

Hammerhead1550

Pinside member

Clarksburg, WV

11y 46,050 540

I wonder what they use on bowling alleys? Now those get some serious abuse.

#42 11 years ago

TDA

The_Dude_Abides

Pinside Moderator

Northern California, CA

14y 137K 9,468 151

Great post Vid thanks!

#43 11 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

11y 77,150 7,231

Quoted from Hammerhead1550:
I wonder what they use on bowling alleys? Now those get some serious abuse.

maple and pine... maple where you walk/where the ball lands, and pine further down...

#44 11 years ago

DAJ

Pafasa

Inactive member

Oakland, NE

12y 58,900 3,955 1

Quoted from Hammerhead1550:
I wonder what they use on bowling alleys? Now those get some serious abuse.

Those are dimpled too. Had to retrieve my kid not too long ago and got a nice close look, if you know what I mean.

#45 11 years ago

CCC

ccotenj

Inactive member

11y 77,150 7,231

Quoted from Pafasa:
Those are dimpled too. Had to retrieve my kid not too long ago and got a nice close look, if you know what I mean.

lol... yes, if one was to examine a bowling alley as closely as some examine their playfields, they'd be shocked at what they'd see...

1 month later

#46 10 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

The Janka test (the way we determine the hardness of wood) is measured by the force required to drive a 1/2" steel ball 1/2 way into a piece of wood.

There is no wood harder than steel, so that is why they use a steel ball as a measuring device.

Maple (the wood use to make playfields) requires 1400 lbs of force to bury the ball 1/2 way.

Australian Buloke wood requires 5000 lbs of force; so in the larger scheme of things, Maple is not that hard of a wood.

Jhardnesstest.jpg

#47 10 years ago

PGX

joeraptor2003

PinGraffix

Valley Stream, NY

12y 100K 1,641 10

Hey Vid1900

Thanks for the very informative post.

And BTW.. if you have anti-glare glass..it just makes the dimples even more apparant.

So you have to figure out if you are a player or a collector. If you are a collector and you don't want any dimples...then just don't play it.

Like you said..."its pinball'

#48 10 years ago

JAC

Fatsquatch

Pinside+ Frequent