(Topic ID: 30084)

Playfield Dimple Reality Check


By vid1900

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 302 posts
  • 114 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 72 days ago by dr_nybble
  • Topic is favorited by 44 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

2 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #281 Compressed wood in ball travel areas Posted by vid1900 (7 months ago)

Post #282 Measurement of compressed wood in ball travel areas Posted by vid1900 (7 months ago)


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There are 302 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
29
#1 6 years ago
13
#2 6 years ago

And a normal, unprotected area of the playfield here:

dimples.jpg

44
#3 6 years ago

So this should show you guys that even a lightly played Williams 90s game has millions of dimples.

After a while, you get so many dimples that all the wood fibers are as compressed as they are going to get and it "seems" smooth, but really isn't.

In the next few months, I'm going to put a good clear coat over this playfield to protect it, but that will not stop the dimpling.

The Stern playfields are still made by CCC, the same company that made most of the Williams playfields.

Once and for all: it's not new cheap wood, it's not Stern sucks, it's not crappy clear coat - it's just pinball.

#4 6 years ago

Great post.
Tall Man dispelling rumors once again.

#5 6 years ago

Yer bummin' us out vid.

#7 6 years ago

Even WOZ will dimple the same way. It's just the way it is.

#8 6 years ago

Nice post. Thanks!

#9 6 years ago

I had a super nice HUO NGG. It had dimples in the PF. While some thought this was a negative, in a way it actually showed it hadn't been played much because they hadn't evened out much.

#10 6 years ago

Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

30
#11 6 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

My Orbitor 1 does not have any.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

My Orbitor 1 does not have any.

LOL....

#13 6 years ago

I don't understand you mean that a steel ball can dimple wood???? That just doesn't make sense. Haha Pinball people are funny.

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

Is it because they are completely dimpled? And therefore, you cannot see the dimples?

#15 6 years ago

How are dimples actually formed? Air balls? Are air balls really that widespread?

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

How are dimples actually formed? Air balls?

Yes for sure, but they are mostly formed by the ball changing direction rapidly and skipping across the pf a little bit. They add up over time.

#17 6 years ago

just another pic for vid and everyone. william 94 dh pre clear coat used pf;

dirtypreclear.jpg

#18 6 years ago

^ another great example.

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

How are dimples actually formed? Air balls?

Not just air balls, but balls that bounce off of posts and targets.

Of course balls that drop from ramps make many dimples too.

#20 6 years ago

Great example vid. Love that the orbitor 1 has none. =-)

Logic dictates that most woods are softer than most metals..... Pretty sure over time this will happen to even the hardest of woods.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from Shoot_Again:

Pretty sure over time this will happen to even the hardest of woods.

Yes, no doubt.

But the best part is; the more dimples you get, the flatter the playfield becomes.

So play the crap out of your games to compress all the wood fibers you can.

1 month later
#22 6 years ago

Do Mirco playfields dimple worse because they have so much clear coat on them?

// Error: Image 63154 not found //

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Do Mirco playfields dimple worse because they have so much clear coat on them?

Nope.

Steel ball = harder than clear coat.

3 months later
#25 6 years ago

A buddy is trying to get me to use a epoxy 2 part clear coat over a fathom playfield? He claims it wicket hard and applys thick and is water clear , I thought it would be soft ?... I still might have the auto body guys apply an auto clear ... Anybody have any experience with epoxys ?

#26 6 years ago

Here is another reality check: I have seen NOS playfields from the 80s with cupped, raised and/or loose inserts. Installing LEDs under them would not have helped because they never had ANY lights installed under them.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Dawson:

A buddy is trying to get me to use a epoxy 2 part clear coat over a fathom playfield? He claims it wicket hard and applys thick and is water clear , I thought it would be soft ?... I still might have the auto body guys apply an auto clear ... Anybody have any experience with epoxys ?

Epoxy usually yellows over the years. Too hard and the coating might crack.

And, the epoxy clear for bartops says to sand the wood with 80 grit so the epoxy has some tooth.

Stick with auto clear.

#28 6 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Here is another reality check: I have seen NOS playfields from the 80s with cupped, raised and/or loose inserts. Installing LEDs under them would not have helped because they never had ANY lights installed under them.

Yep, lots of NOS playfields with cupped inserts, especially if they don't have the jeweling on the backside.

They were only made to last 3 years, not 30...

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Thing is, there are SOME playfields that just don't ever get dimples, why is that?

Show me these playfields. I guess if you never play your machines and enjoy them it's possible. I have never seen a non-dimpled playfield.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Even WOZ will dimple the same way. It's just the way it is.

Clearly you are not familiar with the legendary "fit & finish" and build quality of WOZ. Nothing can hurt it; especially pinballs smacking down on the playfield.

#31 6 years ago
Quoted from xbloodgreenx:

Show me these playfields. I guess if you never play your machines and enjoy them it's possible. I have never seen a non-dimpled playfield.

It's probably because all the dimples have been compressed already... looks flat because it's ALL dimpled.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from Fatsquatch:

Clearly you are not familiar with the legendary "fit & finish" and build quality of WOZ. Nothing can hurt it; especially pinballs smacking down on the playfield.

thats because at this rate none of the playfields will ever see a ball lol

#33 6 years ago

thats because at this rate none of the playfields will ever see a ball lol

lama.jpg

#34 6 years ago

Wondering: on ACDC, since the cannon essentially delivers an air ball with every shot, are the middle of those playfields going to see a pattern of accelerated wear in the landing zone?

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:

Wondering: on ACDC, since the cannon essentially delivers an air ball with every shot, are the middle of those playfields going to see a pattern of accelerated wear in the landing zone?

Yes

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from Nuclear_Waste:

Wondering: on ACDC, since the cannon essentially delivers an air ball with every shot, are the middle of those playfields going to see a pattern of accelerated wear in the landing zone?

I've yet to see the cannon directly drop a ball on the lower playfield.

#37 6 years ago

My DH has no wear that could be attributed to the gun (which is just a cannon by another name). I thought about protecting this area more, but hey, it survived a route without it.

#38 6 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

My DH has no wear that could be attributed to the gun (which is just a cannon by another name).

I think it's all luck. My DH has some divots for sure...but I never remembering noticing anything big on STTNGs that i've played.

#39 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I think it's all luck. My DH has some divots for sure...but I never remembering noticing anything big on STTNGs that i've played.

I think it has something to do with owning the game. When its yours you inspect everything with a fine tooth comb. Also, It would take a long time for the dimples to even out in home use.

#40 6 years ago

Nice pictures, I never really thought about a playfield having that many dimples. I always thought people were complaining about the ball drop areas, some of my games look like these pics and I just though it was orange peel in the clearcoat from the factory.

#41 6 years ago

I wonder what they use on bowling alleys? Now those get some serious abuse.

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead1550:

I wonder what they use on bowling alleys? Now those get some serious abuse.

maple and pine... maple where you walk/where the ball lands, and pine further down...

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead1550:

I wonder what they use on bowling alleys? Now those get some serious abuse.

Those are dimpled too. Had to retrieve my kid not too long ago and got a nice close look, if you know what I mean.

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Those are dimpled too. Had to retrieve my kid not too long ago and got a nice close look, if you know what I mean.

lol... yes, if one was to examine a bowling alley as closely as some examine their playfields, they'd be shocked at what they'd see...

1 month later
#46 5 years ago

The Janka test (the way we determine the hardness of wood) is measured by the force required to drive a 1/2" steel ball 1/2 way into a piece of wood.

There is no wood harder than steel, so that is why they use a steel ball as a measuring device.

Maple (the wood use to make playfields) requires 1400 lbs of force to bury the ball 1/2 way.

Australian Buloke wood requires 5000 lbs of force; so in the larger scheme of things, Maple is not that hard of a wood.

Jhardnesstest.jpg

#47 5 years ago

Hey Vid1900

Thanks for the very informative post.

And BTW.. if you have anti-glare glass..it just makes the dimples even more apparant.

So you have to figure out if you are a player or a collector. If you are a collector and you don't want any dimples...then just don't play it.

Like you said..."its pinball'

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from joeraptor2003:

So you have to figure out if you are a player or a collector. If you are a collector and you don't want any dimples...then just don't play it.

Right on.

Sure, I like to keep my machines as nice as possible, but if you're gonna play them, shit's gonna happen. You've got a big metal ball bearing hurdling around at great speeds, knocking off of wood, plastic, and glass...some of those materials are gonna suffer damage.

As a player, I'm not much bothered by any "natural" damage that happens as a result of my games being used and enjoyed. But then again, I'm not one of those guys who spends all their time, money and energy on decorating and modding machines instead of actually playing them.

-1
#49 5 years ago

Agreed. Steel Ball, Wood and Physics. It really is that simple

#50 5 years ago

At first I was thinking that you named it after someone at work, but then I googled it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

Even has a Wiki.

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