Thanks for the observation. Once woz is finished the bar will be set high that's for sure.

I've said the same for past games when excited early on then realized later I was a little over excited. WOZ is indeed a game changer for sure. It is in a a whole different league. Their are many great games out there we all know. WOZ is just from another planet and I can't even imagine what is to come with the code. The possibilities are endless. It is spectacular!

Ok, so we got the quality build thing burned in our brain for WOZ. No one says how fun it is?

No one talks about cool shots combos or anything like that ,all we hear is great build quality over and over ?

I would rather hear people talk about the actual pinball machine and what the pinball does vs how solid it feels!

Metallica, lots of input about game play and a few about quality issues , the game play seems to out weigh the quality issues .

I'll take fun over a clear coated box !

I felt exactly this way when I played both at the NW Pinball show.

You don't hear people talking about all the mind blowing modes they experienced on WoZ... as at this time they are super secret or do not exist. 2 Switch Frenzy modes, 2 flavors of double scoring (light AND dark...).

The code has a ways to go as will be brought up from now until ?, but the surprising thing for me is there is nothing there to keep most people coming back right now except flashy lights. Looking at the (now cooling/cold) frenzy over Tron LE that might be enough though

One of the few times I'll agree with Mr. McCune in public...

We have covered build quality to death, yet gameplay is hardly mentioned at all other than "something something something pretty lights". I know WOZ is still pretty far from finished, but is the shot layout keeping you coming back for more? I'm worried that its taking the TSPP road: couple of basic shots with an impossible amount of code piled on to make up for it.

I am not a fan of the movie, nor the band. And I do not own either.

I agree that the build quality and wow-factor goes to WOZ.

But when I played Metallica, I felt the game had much more energy.

Both currently have limited rules, but comparing game-play, I thought MET was more fun. WOZ was still very cool, and the eventual depth should kick ass.

But having played both, WOZ lacked the energy and level of excitement I got from playing Metallica.

WOZ I will agree with on build quality. I am just hoping that Hobbit is more for me meaning more ramps and lots of flow

love both games very different play, WOZ had some really great shots, flow was good, not fast and furious like MET, would be all over hobbit if I didn't think it would take 10 years to get. Both good games very if met was $3500 and WOZ was $5000 I would own both.

Did you miss this part?...

Certainly implies that he was enjoying playing.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Let's go back to the EM era or early SS era for a moment; Everyone knows that Gottlieb had the best build quality by far. Way more in-depth mechanical and technological design.

What does everyone remember being the best games to play from that era? Usually it was a Williams or Bally pin.

Did the ops care about build quality? Nope, the money maker is what wins the prize. Even if it meant having more service techs. The games made a lot more than what was paid to the service techs. And this factored in the 50/50 split.

If jjp had made a Metallica pin instead wizard of oz my life would have been complete. I think jjp has blown it out of the water with the actual machine and software they have built, I just still HATE the theme.

Really excited for the hobbit, but a 2 year down payment is outrageous.

Metallica plays like any other fan layout game. Talk about beating something to death.
I couldn't understand why the ball was stopped while going through the loops. The sparky toy was cool, ramps had good flow but there was no wow factor for me. The game did not seem real fast. SM, XMen, Tron, ACDC all felt better to me than Metallica. The playfield seemed longer than most. The left ramp and Sparky shots are a mile away. When the flippers get weak on location, you will never hit the left ramp shot. I really don't think this is Borg's best design.

No, I can't stop going to work and that is not fun . LOL

Yeah, no one likes TSPP....

There ya go D-ROCK,it doesnt all have to be negative lol.

Many people don't. It seems perfect for those that love that style of play and I'm sure those will be very happy with it.

YUP!!!

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-gameplay-at-home

I agree.

I can't wait to see JJP do a pin I want.

I will NOT however be on the list to folks giving a 2-3 year interest-free business development loan to get an "LE"

I will be one of those silly folks that want to play one before paying for it..... (Btw, I feel the same way about Sterns overhyped LEs as well)

I DO hope it's a good one though!

When I played it at the NW show last week there was just so much going on that I was somewhat overwhelmed, and it's not even close to finished yet. Was it fun to play, absolutely, some of the modes I saw were awesome, and I can't wait to see where it goes from here.

What really amazed me was that it was almost as much fun to watch other people as it was to play myself, something I've seldom if ever experienced with another game.

For ops, I'm sure that is Avery good sign.

Does anyone know how long it took Stern or Williams/Bally or Gottlieb to get off the ground and produce their first pinball? Fill 1000 to 1500 order? Have others tried and failed? How they financed it? I would think any new company that is trying to produce a Quality product on a scale such as this will go through growing pains not unlike any other type of business trying to get off the ground. What I really don't get is the negative comments on theme, (either way) this is totally personal and subjective. I think everyone in this community can agree on one thing. The more competition there is in business the more consumers usually benefit. Quality theme's and selection will increase and that for me is a win win for all of us!

I only HOPE it'll take the TSPP route. If I had any sense that WOZ was as good as TSPP I wouldn't have cancelled my order.

Years. Some of them were making other or similar things and moved onto pinball as we know it today.

Capcom did it in a couple years blowing through an obscene amount of money.

Of course in 1932 Bally made 75,000 Ballyhoo's. That was a lot more the 1,000 or 1,500.

LTG : )

Didn't hold anyone's interest in my house. Too repetitive (shots-wise). Only so many times you can hear the same call outs (I'm looking at you, Otto!) before it loses its shine. Sure... We all loved it for a couple of weeks.

...Or if it would have stayed with the original sales pitch of a "dark themed take on the story". I'd have one of the #'s that's already been confirmed as delivered! Oh well.

How can anyone say the build quality is way better then x, y, or z? Especially williams/Bally. Its the same parts. I agree that it is built well and feels more like a Bally Williams then Stern but for the love of pete the pin has been out for a couple weeks and there are only 20 of them out there. I blew the slipper off of one flipper one day after it was taken out of the box. It is a very interesting game but to start saying its in a whole other world compared to every pin is just wrong. I put 40 or so games on WOZ and still say I will own one someday. While I played it the shots kinda felt limited. The upper right flipper didn't really feel like it was needed. Of course the code is unfinished. The game shut off a couple times. The VUK didn't get the ball up to the upper pf all the time and it seems to be on multiple pins. I came away feeling like it WILL be a great pin but for now I have way more fun with SM / TZ / IJ / POTC etc. etc. etc.

The only thing that puts it ahead of all other pins to me is the TV screen........and you can't watch that much while playing althought it is really cool.

WoZ has the 'wow factor' for sure but I am not sure if it will have the 'fun factor' to keep its longevity. It's new and has some unique features that we aren't used to seeing but after all that wears off who knows...

Remember at Christmas time when you were a kid and you opened that 'special gift'? Remember that 'wow factor'? That usually wore off in about 20 minutes and then you ended up playing with the box... WoZ owners, KEEP YOUR BOX!

Ballyhoo sucked. No Ramps or LEDs. How did they ever sell so many?

TeeKee
I suppose, but the same could be said for any new game.
For me WOZ is a triple win because my wife and Daughter love the game as well

No doubt, if the whole family is big into pinball WoZ is probably a must in the lineup.

So you can say it's wrong, but they can't say it's right? He's excited about the pin. Many are.

Not a referance to anyones post. Just what I felt after reading everyones posts'. I would agree B/W and now JJP feel different then Stern. Very low play Bally Williams pins doesn't mean they are dialed in and functioning properly. All pins right out of the box and 20 years old can feel like crap with a few loose screws and adjustments out of whack. And you are correct JJP has definatly raised the bar more then a few notches in todays market.

Its not about what is right or wrong, I just don't think its fair to say its way better when my true life experiance was not even close. I think it has a chance to match up with the best pins out there or maybe even be the best but we are a long way away from those statements right now. Im just trying to keep it real and have stated that I will own one some day but pinside has become the place to bash and throw statements around about people and pins that are just not backed by true experiances. Pumping pins to eventually sell, talking about people you have never met or had dealings with, its just wrong for the positive hobby most of us enjoy.

To Each There Own...

For me Metallica by far!

Aint saying WoZ is not good,To each there own!

I hate Topic like this...i have to stop reading them.

I have been collecting these stupid things for 20 years and my family has pretty much been indifferent to just about everything I have purchased. Tons of games have come and gone with a "I kind of liked that one" every once in awhile.

I have been asked every two days since my family played a prototype last December where ours is. This game is going to have to 100% suck and fall flat on its face play-wise, rules-wise, or reliability-wise for my family to get rid of it at this point. I don't think I am in the minority on this either. Heck, my wife who plays about three games of pinball a year was telling the neighbors about how cool it is yesterday. She actually remembered some of the toys when describing it.

This game has much more cross-over appeal than people give it credit for.

I agree, but you're fighting a losing battle with some of the folks on Pinside. Everything has to be about the extremes of loving or hating, hobbyist or fanboy (Stern or JJP). No matter what is said good about WOZ, there are a few who make a mockery of the person's comments or go the other way and say it's the best ever. Even you have commented at least a few times about the slipper falling off. Is it really that big of a deal? Probably not, but there are some who won't let it go, but they are the same people on a MOP thread who say that it's no big deal about a flipper button popping off. Not a big deal either, right? Some have agendas, some are lemmings who go along with that minority group and then there's the rest. I think you're in 'the rest' crowd like me...

Heh, about the slipper's falling off, they've beaten that one into the ground. I experienced it myself, way back at the Texas Pinball Fest. Got down there to play WOZ, started one game and yoink, a ruby slipper goes flying off and lands in the middle of the PF, *sticking* there adhesive side down.

JJP has changed the process for gluing those on since then. It's supposed to be a non-issue now but people keep dragging it out to beat on it.

Also, someone commented about the game "shutting down" on them when they rolled over the TOTO rollovers on the right outlane? It's SUPPOSED to do that. The rest of the lighting shuts off as it serves up another ball and only the shot is lit that will save your ball. You miss the shot, power is shut off to the flippers and the ball drains. Exactly like it's designed to.

God forbid someone puts something different into pin programming!

I played them both and both are great fun. There is no denying the beauty and craftsmanship of WOZ, but Metallica is beautiful in its own way (I.e: original hand drawn art!). I would love to own both at some point...but WOZ is truly unique and special. I liked the shots and speed of the game. Someone said that WOZ was the first game they enjoyed watching as much as playing and while I personally wouldn't go that far, it indeed is almost as fun watching as playing. Metallica was just another new game for me...pretty darn cool but nothing really unique about it. I did like it more than I like ACDC though. It's possible TeeKee could be right...maybe the coolness and uniqueness of WOZ will wear off after a bit. Time will tell. At this point, with Keith and Ted at the helm with JP and Chris Granner's talents I like its chances.

Don't know about anyone else but the toto thing was as soon as you punge the ball all you had to do was hit a flipper button or a switch the the flippers would shut down. I still don't understand it the only light that was lit was an insert up near the ramp but I could never get a chance to shoot at it cause the flips would die.

its a timed thing. It was dialed in on the last code upgrade. I think everyone needs to keep comments in check till the machines are complete whether Stern or JJP!

I kinda thought it was timed but it would shut the flipps down at different times or as it seemed. Now does the target you have to hit change locations in the future? And is it strickly timed or will it disable if you hit other targets etc. Code just insn't complete on this or is the time adjustable.?

I *think* you're supposed to soft plunge so it will come back through the upper right flipper. You have very little time to make the shot, really just one chance but hey, it's better than most outlane drains right?

Oh I LOVE the concept! And I tried that but you would have to bounce it off the witch or above to get to the insert that was lit. It was above the rainbow inserts that was lit.

The only insert that was lit was just above the scarecrows right sholder. white diamond like with green artwork around it.

image-7.jpg

from what I understood from other postings, it was the ramp above the scarecrows head "most of the time" Aslo understood it would be changeable to "add" time in the settings. Still a work in progress