Believe it or not, not everyone on here or with pinball machines is in it for the love of pinball. There are plenty of people just trying to suck every last dime they can out of it.

The price of MM's on the second hand market is the major reason they are able to get $8K for MM14. Better?

...

Yeah, they have those super huge vacuums they use to just suck the money right out of their pockets… I forgot.

Have you ever used a vacuum before? You don't seem to understand their limitations.

Personally, I think it will be priced at $8000 and there won't be as many buyers as expected so they'll drop the price down to $7000. I base this on nothing but my gut as I think MMR took a shit load of cash out the market. When MMR deliveries start, people are going to be dumping B and C list titles on the market like crazy to cover their MMR purchases. Next year is going to be a massive buyers market.

Planetary already stated that they have the rights for CC and that includes the right to finish the code.

You can see it happening now, and next year is going to be "massive"......

Truth. It's amazing how many pins having been sitting on Craiglist in Los Angeles. Months at a time, no buyers. The market adjustment is here already. Most people don't know it though because they haven't gone to sell.

its the same here in nor cal. games are not moving like they were 3-6 months ago.

What people haven't realized is that mods are worth nothing when you go to sell on the used market, shaker motor is only thing of little value and just take that out before you sell it.

I buy while being prepared to lose any mod money I put in the game (even Cliffy's) along with 10%. I just think of it as entertainment value. I can play the pin any time I want for as long as I want, even in my robe if I want.

The day of buying, playing for 6 months to a year, selling for 20-30% more than you paid for it are over.

as a relative noob to the hobby, it's weird to me that people would have ever assumed full ROI on mods. if you're not buying the mod for yourself, then don't buy it. that's how it is in every other hobby i've ever been involved in.

Depends on what you buy it for!

Bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch, belly ache, belly ache, whine, moan, cry, complain,bitch bitch bitch

Oh, and totally missing the forest through the trees...head in sand path of least resistance, selfish, only see how things impact you, no real sense of reality, laws, influence, wealth distribution, etc.

But keep flapping your gums...just know you're not speculating, you're flatulating.

See above. American corporations are MORE profitable than ever. Why is this? Pull your heads out of the sand and actually figure it out, as opposed to regurgitating stale political baloney.

Hey TFA , you know PinballMikeD is Mike Dallas, right? The high end restore guy in Florida? You should go look at some pics of his work, it is top notch.

I'd love too. He should stick to pinball restoration. Something he knows about.

I said before we were in a massive bubble. MMR is the needle to finally start rolling the price back to a more reasonable level. Which is great, because things were getting out of control. You already see games sitting instead of selling with stupid prices on them. Even games that have so many made like TZ and TAF. The fact they even broke out of the 3k range was amazing in itself. They will be back to a more affordable level when everything else trickles down stream.

while i'm sure his work is top notch, that also reveals a certain financial incentive in the remake's failure, does it not?

Do you have any clue what your talking about? It doesn't seem like it.

He's been following me around for a while now and unfortunately I've had to see about everything he's ever said here... to answer your question: NO, he has absolutley NO clue whatsoever.

My friend, I think your reading comprehension skills are somewhat lacking. I’m not the one “bitching” about pinball machine prices. Apparently I’m one of the few people who think it’s more expensive to manufacture a product today than it was several years ago. If I were so disgusted with the current pricing why would I buy a WOZ and STLE in the last month?

Sure I’d love to buy NIB machines at 2007 prices. I'd also like to buy gas and groceries at 2007 prices as well.

Maybe you should get to know me before you presume to know what I think or what want.

I’m not rooting for PPS to fail; I’m simple rooting for Stern and JJP to succeed. Just a guess, but I've probably been in this hobby a few more years than you have, so I’ve already owned many of the Bally/Williams “A” titles. They are all great machines, just like Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark are great movies. However, I’ve seen both of those movies 100+ times and I’ve played MM even more. I just want something new to play.

As far as restorations go, this is a hobby for me not a business. Most of the games I restore are my own personal machines or ones I do for friends within the community. If I never restore another MM it wouldn’t hurt my feelings.

The truth right here. Prices will come down significantly on most games. It really was getting ridiculous. I'm glad to see pp do remakes as it will serve to keep the prices down on b/w games out there and also help keep stern and jjp in check, both in price and qc. They were getting away with murder. I realize there is significant inflation, but come on now. The jump in prices we saw was just insane. I purchased xmen LE, hulk LE, acdc premium, and met LE nib in the last 1.5 yrs. I was just blindly buying whatever stern put out. Those days are gone for me. I have the cash, but now with more options, I will be more selective.

That'll teach them to put out unfinished games with build issues!

Even if you and all the similar buyers you stop now, Stern probably won't realize it for a bit. e.g. the first game's slow sales will be blamed on this or that, then the second... it will take a while for Stern to realize they burned through all the buyers with more dollars than standards regarding what a $5K+ purchase should entail.

$2500 NIB Centaur... I think I would have to sell my JP if that ever happened.

i was not presuming anything - just stating a fact. you are right, i don't know you and i am new to the hobby. you may be a swell guy with a heart of gold, i have no reason to doubt that. but that doesn't change the fact that you do have a legit financial incentive to see MMR fail. whether your financial stake affects your opinions, i have no way of knowing nor did i ever say i did. but i don't think it's fair for you to get bent out of shape when someone points out what you do -- it's relevant context.

First of all, I’m not “bent out of shape.” Secondly, the success of MMr will have zero impact on my own personal finances. I do have to chuckle though, because I’m restoring a MM for a good friend right now - at a whopping rate of $0/hr. Again, this is a hobby for me not an occupation.

I hope you are elated with your MMr.

Not me.

$4.00 + for a gallon of gas sucks.

This gets funnier each time you post it.

Argh.. here in germanywe oay for a gallon something around 8 $....

LOL

$3.04 today, but we don't have anything fun like an Autobahn to burn it up on.

+1 lol Keith ... I was thinking the same thing.

Care to counter with your BOMs? It would make it even funnier to compare eh.

Never going to happen.

You know Vid was either quoting Jack or Gary doing their bragging when he posted that convo from the show - you think either of them is going to post a BOM?

I was born at night but it wasn't last night so no you are a hundy % right "never going to happen" (a truthful BOM at least).

Sure we do, I-696 in Oakland County, Michigan, I-80 West of Salt Lake City, Utah as well as from Wendover to Lovelock, Nevada, I-55 between Southaven and Jackson, Mississippi and just about every road in Texas. God Bless Texas. It needs all the help it can get. Exceptions are the pinside posters who live there as they are cool. There are some residents in that state (no names) who need LOTS of help though.

I don't believe any game while I was at Stern was that low.

Lots of other factors on top of the BOM anyway which determine the final COGS. How about which year was the BOM ~1600? Better not, pinside is already money obsessed enough without fuelling the fires with dollar bills, it should be IFA approved

With all due respect since you worked there and I have not; During 2000-1 when High Roller Casino was released, it sold to operators for $2400.00. I'd say distributors paid about $2k so the Stern had to make at least $400 but more like $6-700.00 per game so the BOM was likely well below $1600.00 because development and assembly costs have to be paid as well.

Isn't the Wells Gardner 26" monitor around $300-400 wholesale by itself? Things add up quickly.

High Roller came out January 2001, I paid Moss Distributing ( a wholesale distributor ) around $3200 for it.

LTG : )

Either I stand corrected or you overpaid for your machine; I'll go with standing corrected.

LTG already corrected you from his perspective, but I can add I have a cancelled check for my game (at "cost" not just BOM) that would prove you wrong. Although, you would have to accept my word on that.

Big difference between cost and BOM. Keep in mind the BOM is how this whole conversation started.

I Fixed it for you. 4 of the top 10 most dangerous cities in America are in Michigan.

Wow, you got robbed. That means Stern didn't have a price increase ever in 6 years, because I bought LOTR in 2007 for $3400, delivered to my door.

Wow, no. you got a great deal. Keeping prices down caught up to Stern. Almost ran them into the ground.

LTG : )

I don't think people will be lining up to pay $8000 for the next game. Aside from BBr I would say that MB & CC need to be in the 7k range to get people to line up to buy.
JMHO

This was a 10 month old thread. Please, lets not rehash the same old circular argument.

I would do 8k on a monster bash. Nothing else though.