Well I think the only thing you are missing is MM will probably be the highest price point .. If you think about what games they can sell for $8k, or even $7k, yeah, it's AFM, CC, and BBB. They can still remake other games and make less profit. Once they get MM up and running and have everything in place, the costs go down for future releases. I can see them making runs on other Bally/Williams games by pricing them around $5k if they can turn a profit on them, which they should be able to.

I can see that with maybe ToM & WH20 for starters.

Based upon MMr sales, if they don't run into production problems, I would imagine they'll do one remake a year. If they go by current price point it'll probably be something like this: CC > MB > AFM. After that, who knows.

I believe PPS will continue with remakes as long as the demand is there and it is profitable. I can't imagine he would have the boards engineered for just one title. I agree that AFM is the most logical second choice, but see no reason to stop there and leave money on the table - he is running a business after all.

I totally agree.

With all of the cost reduction on the MMr, I think they could have turned a tidy profit selling them for Stern Pro pricing. It is basically a populated playfield, miniature CPU board, cabinet and significantly less wiring. Not to mention no development cost for art, music, sound, playfield layout, etc. I'd gladly pay $5000 for a new Whitewater.

I really don't even feel like AFM is worth $8k. I wouldn't want to pay more than $4k at the most for one. Great game, but really not even close to MM greatness in my opinion.

One and done... hopefully! Move forward! Not backward... hey Apple please remake one of these!

martincooper1_wideweb__470x3620.jpg

Maybe they do ? Williams was going to release BBB after CC, but never did. Were working on a whitewood and programming to make it a Williams.

LTG : )

I have no idea what their plans are.

After the initial shock of having it sell in an hour, and the ensuing flood of emails and calls. and heavens knows what else. Rick may be sorry he thought this one, was a good idea.

LTG : )

That would be epic. Someone tried to sell me a BBB the other day for $19.5k lol...maybe they know something

If Rick wanted another title to sell for $8k and have that look "cheap", BBB is the one to do. What's Gene's deal with the Capcom rights? In perpetuity? ...or would have have to renew at some point? If there's a renewal deadline - maybe that's where Rick jumps in?

Just like MM, I'd never pay 10k+ for a used one....but make a new one for $8k, here's my money.

I doubt prices will drop significantly for future releases. Hope I am wrong of course.

Obviously 8k for MM was no problemo.

Williams bought the rights for BBB (and only made a single game).

Just like PPS bought the rights for MM from WayneO, they can buy the rights for BBB from Gene.

At 8K, there is plenty of money to go 'round.

You are the first person to ever admit this on a message board.

We don't know he ever had one or not.

LTG : )

We're waiting on Kim to ever be right. Now that would be earth shattering.

LTG : )

And why not make re-run of "the pinball circus"
For 6k ??

Python was talking about finishing/expanding it and releasing it as "The Flipper Circus" ...not sure if it's daydream talk or he has a full plan in motion.

AFM is not a good second choice. There are just too many available and they do not seem to be selling at the price point MM does. I think AFM would be a failure since you can buy a mint one for 10k ish

Cactus Canyon would sell another 1000 as its price is over $8k for a beater. Not many were made and I think a lot of people want this title. I just really question the demand for AFM.

If they can get capcom rights then bring on king pin and BBB both games would easily sell 1000 units at

If I were doing games I'd make.

MM then CC see if I could do BBB and Kingpin maybe look into Funhouse if you can get it made for $5 k.

There are only 4 titles I can see selling 1000 or more units at the $8k price point

Because you couldn't do it for that ? When Williams was open they were talking $12K in the mid 1990's for it when MM's were $3400.

LTG : )

Plus AFM is way too similar play wise to MM. Makes more sense to do CC next then AFM if they are going to run it.

For me, remakes would have to be priced something like this to make sense based on my guesstimates for supply and demand:
Funhouse at $5500. TAF at $7000. AFM at $7000 to $8000. TZ at around $6500. CC at around $6000-$7000 with the new code, and not worth much without the code since the inflated price of the original CC is based on rarity.
MB at around $7500. TOM at around $6500. TOTAN at around $7000.

I'd worry about your favorite remake getting done first. Then if it's in your budget.

Take your example of Funhouse. Extra shooter rod, different cabinet, different playfield, and Rudy head. No way you could do that for less than what they are asking for MM.

Sadly, if you want something that gets made, sense may not enter into it.

LTG : )

With the stronger than expected demand for MM, development costs for the new boards may be paid off earlier than PPS anticipated possibly leading to lower NIB cost for follow up games that may not command 8K price tag.

They haven't even sold all the MMR LE's yet and you guys are talking about more refakes? One and done...

Most of the parts were already made by Wayne for MM. Not the case for any of the other options making it much more difficult to make a game from scratch .

I thought all of the MMrLE's had sold out in a few hours?

Most of the parts covers a lot, we've never seen pictures beyond some of the basics like trolls and common stuff used in other games.

And you know for a fact PPS is using them and not their own or making their own ?

LTG : )

Nope...

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-limited-quantity-available-from-pinball-phil-arcades-at-home

And there will be more cancellations...

Don't know for sure, but it seems logical. I can't imagine promising delivery in early 2014 and not having a ton of the parts already made. Starting from scratch would be a challenge .

When Jack looks at how much money he made in the last week from simply being a major distributor of MMr vs how much he will actually make or lose off of three years of blood, sweat and tears spent on WoZ... Let's just say it may not be Planetary that we should be worried about being one and done.

I hope PPL is successful and remake many more titles. They are not going to create a new title from the ground up and remakes is all they want to do to keep it simple. Leave the new titles up to Stern/JJP and the other people making boutique titles, then you have machines for everyone. Can't believe the sour grapes over a MM remake. The constant crying is due to money leaving collectors pockets who either overpaid or flip for profit. If JJP or Stern was doing remakes then I could see people being upset because it takes away time from the developing new titles. But it's a pretty sad day when anyone in the hobby would be upset PPL is remaking one of the great classics and potentially more to come.

By that logic MOP didnt sell out either...

You do realize Bay Area amusements and Planetary Pinball Supply are in the pinball parts business.

Why source things there when they can or have been done here ?

LTG : )

Exactly, my point is that MM is a logical choice because it is a great game and the supply of already made parts is plentiful. Other remakes would take more effort because the number of available parts are not as plentiful .

Wrong. They officially sold all 1000 in under two hours.

Distributors having them like with other games, is a completely different thing.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Wrong, many here thought they we no longer available... At ALL! We've already seen a couple WTB ads for them and many others complaining that they were shut out and missed their chance to own one. Many thought they were sold out completely including from the distributors.

Never fear folks yes they are sold out but still available...

Seriously cannot be that difficult to reproduce if you have the 'rights' to remake them. AFM, what's difficult about having those parts made? Same for WH20/MB/CC/etc. In the world of 3D printing and scanning, these projects should be a piece of cake. The only thing stopping it is the company getting in their own way and charging too much for the remakes.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the chance of PPS remaking another title is directly proportional to the success they have with MMR.

I think the bar has been set and 8K is the minimum price of any future releases. And if that's the case, I can't see more than one more title being released. There just isn't enough cash in this small hobby to support three, mass producing, pin manufacturers.

Study up Capcom patents and trademarks.

Hard to say. Maybe P2K was ready to go quicker than planned ?

Williams had two Capcom BBB's, disassembled one. Had a whitewood with some artwork in a cabinet ( no idea what cabinet ) I'm assuming Williams flippers, pop bumpers, slingshots, etc, Capcom parts on top side of playfield. Williams board set, Lyman started working on the programming. Project dumped. Mike Pacak ended up with all of this, made the Williams BBB back into a Capcom one and sold it and the other eventually. Whitewood with art work is in a private collection.

LTG : )

You're smoking crack if you think Adams Family, one of the highest production number pins of all time is going to be remade.

He is also mistaken, if he thinks remakes would be sold that cheaply.