(Topic ID: 200135)

Pirates of the Caribbean JJP 4


By abelelectronics

2 years ago



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  • 369 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by KingPinGames
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There are 365 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 8.
#251 2 years ago
Quoted from crwjumper:

Saw this on Buffalo stream and had to order it. (Thanks Joe@PinballStar!). It'll look great next to my Hobbit, Dialed In and TWD. Selling my MMRLE to make room/fund the purchase.
JJP is taking over my game room!!!

Quoted from Axl:

i think the movies are just ok. When i heard that it would be POTC that was the next game, my reaction was, meh.
I watched the whole reveal steam and got super exited! First of all, it was a great stream by the Bro team, and the game.
I am super impressed by the theme integration and the world under glass that I want so bad.
I actually watched the latest movie after the reveal, i am pleasantly surprised of how fun it was.
I have some games with less than fortunate theme, I don`t care as long as they are fun to play.
I admit that games like Gilligan's island have a less fortunate theme (never watched the series, ever) the game is a blast to play!
The game looks great, and Eric knocked it out of the park.
The layout looks great, and Keith makes the best rulesets in my opinion.
If I decide to buy the game i have to sell 3 of my games. I think this game is worth it.
tl;dr: looks awesome, thinking about selling games to buy the LE.

Can I just say, reading posts like these makes my day. So glad you enjoyed the stream.

#252 2 years ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

Hope to be able to get my LE with stainless plain armor, that way it will cost less to have it powdercoated to a "non-Pro-Stern" finish.
I am sure it would look great in a green or blue color.

I was thinking the same thing - may buy a standard if I like the game, only problem is jjp uses tape like williams, so I assume it will be hard to remove the rails without damaging them.

#253 2 years ago
Quoted from KevInBuffalo:

Can I just say, reading posts like these makes my day. So glad you enjoyed the stream.

Really enjoyed it as well. You guys did a great job on the stream.

Bought a CE myself, really helped make that decision for me.

#254 2 years ago
Quoted from jcoble:

Got to say, no matter how good a "replacement" is, missing that main theme is really disappointing. How expensive could it have been? I mean, you are already dealing with the 800 lb gorilla of licensing, get the music while you are in the cage!

Agreed. Lack of the original music and cut scenes fro the movie are a huge disappointment. I like "total" theme immersion. I refuse to buy a game with fake voice actors even. Yes, I know this one has Gibbs, and that's a huge plus in my book, but lacking the other elements hurts this game.

Which is a shame, because the actual pinball portion of it is amazing!

#255 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Agreed. Lack of the original music and cut scenes fro the movie are a huge disappointment. I like "total" theme immersion. I refuse to buy a game with fake voice actors even. Yes, I know this one has Gibbs, and that's a huge plus in my book, but lacking the other elements hurts this game.
Which is a shame, because the actual pinball portion of it is amazing!

Wait, so there are no cutscenes from the movies either? What's the point of licensing a theme of you can't use the theme?

#256 2 years ago
Quoted from jcoble:

Wait, so there are no cutscenes from the movies either? What's the point of licensing a theme of you can't use the theme?

Asking a JJP newbie question - have owned older Stern/Data East in the past, and no hope of or can’t plan on code updates periodically from them. But I have heard JJP does better in this regard, and releases updates regularly. Could they theoretically introduce cut scenes, new voice clips, etc., in the future? Very seriously considering the LE version as my first NIB purchase, and I see the additional features such as cutscenes and original actor vocals as major value add features.

#257 2 years ago
Quoted from cfc0d3r:

Could they theoretically introduce cut scenes, new voice clips, etc., in the future?

No.

Each actor or actress owns the rights to their audio and video. Times 23. And even if you bought into this, you still need Disney's approval.

Buy the game because you like it. Not for what it will never have.

Quoted from jcoble:

What's the point of licensing a theme of you can't use the theme?

Because there is more than enough they can use to make a great game.

LTG : )

#258 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

No.
Each actor or actress owns the rights to their audio and video. Times 23. And even if you bought into this, you still need Disney's approval.
Buy the game because you like it. Not for what it will never have.

Because there is more than enough they can use to make a great game.
LTG : )

Disney should own all their movie clips and audio, right? No way they don't. What kind of pansy Disney lawyer gives away full rights of their property to the actors?? No way JJP paid for all the Hobbit actors and voices. No way Warner Bros is better at contracts than Disney.

#259 2 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Disney should own all their movie clips and audio, right? No way they don't. What kind of pansy Disney lawyer gives away full rights of their property to the actors?? No way JJP paid for all the Hobbit actors and voices. No way Warner Bros is better at contracts than Disney.

Each studio must have different rules / contracts regarding licensing or perhaps the licensing costs being asked by Disney for voice and video assets is much higher then what Warner Bros wanted.

It's pretty damn incredible what JJP managed to get in terms of assets and approval for The Hobbit. It's still stupid Smaug couldn't get hit by a pinball though, lol.

1. Voices from all actors (seems like all at least) across 3 films
2. Video assets with rights to show actors faces across 3 films
3. Licensed main score
4. Approval from Warner Bros for over 30 custom tracks by Two Steps from Hell

#260 2 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

No way JJP paid for all the Hobbit actors and voices. No way Warner Bros is better at contracts than Disney.

May be as simple as easier to work with Warner Bros than to work with Disney. And I never posted that JJP paid for all the Hobbit actors and actresses.

Each company a manufacturer deals with is different. On Stern's POTC, there were eight people who had a say. And all eight said something. Remove the red compass insert and make it white. Plastics were changed. Hole on top of mix master for a toy removed. Boat would do more. Etc. Etc. Austin Powers, only thing was Michael Meyers got to chose the translite. They show him two and he picked one.

LTG : )

#261 2 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

No way Warner Bros is better at contracts than Disney.

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#262 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Each studio must have different rules / contracts regarding licensing or perhaps the licensing costs being asked by Disney for voice and video assets is much higher then what Warner Bros wanted.
It's pretty damn incredible what JJP managed to get in terms of assets and approval for The Hobbit. It's still stupid Smaug couldn't get hit by a pinball though, lol.
1. Voices from all actors (seems like all at least) across 3 films
2. Video assets with rights to show actors faces across 3 films
3. Licensed main score
4. Approval from Warner Bros for over 30 custom tracks by Two Steps from Hell

Warner owns the Wizard of Oz too, remember, and there were things with that game that JJP couldn't use and that Warner forced changes on. The most obvious example is the Somewhere Over the Rainbow song; yes, the song is in the game, but nowhere is there actual audio of Judy Garland singing the song - simple enough, Warner doesn't own that so JJP couldn't get it to use. Yes, inquiries were made with the late actress' people to see if it was get-able but it was not. Warner also doesn't own the rights to any of the Munchkins faces (none of the actor's likenesses) - hence they are not pictured on the playfield (not the real ones) and no video clips showing their faces are used in the game. JJP like any one else simply worked around it.
There are other examples (many) with WOZ. With Hobbit, Warner was much more open and provided three movies worth of assets that they were able to license - not everything, mind you, but a plethora of material that JJP could use, and you see the result. The game is loaded with clips and music and there is a ton of stuff that didn't make it into the game despite the 31 modes and some hidden things - there are certain video sequences that are used if and only if a player reaches victory laps after certain arkenstone modes. If you can imagine. If you are at all a fan of the three Hobbit movies the game is a joy even to watch someone else play. Warner does licenses different than Disney; the contracts that actors sign with Warner allow certain rights to be used and others to be retained. Facts are facts. Disney cannot license that which it does not own. JJP was able to get some very cool music though - talking to David T at Expo I learned more about the audio assets that Disney DID have and JJP could use and there is a lot of cool stuff. The game will be fun by all accounts.

#263 2 years ago

Nice try explaining licensing. I’m sure people will keep complaining but that’s people.

As for Disney and potential problems with Toy Story, the good news is there are no actor faces or likeness issues. It’s all cartoons so,it just depends on how the voicing licensing went down. Still could be a cluster f#$k but shouldn’t be as big of a licensing mess as POTC.

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Nice try explaining licensing. I’m sure people will keep complaining but that’s people.

I think that's people wanting their money's worth.

At 10K-12K, people expect a perfect package and rightfully so.

#265 2 years ago

The movies aren't very good (after the first).

More Pirates less POTC please.

#266 2 years ago
Quoted from Maken:

The movies aren't very good (after the first).
More Pirates less POTC please.

The pinball machine will be MUCH better than the movies, that's a given

I'm a pirate looking at 60, on the back half of 55

The 40 yr old pirate that Jimmy Buffet sings about seems like yesterday though

Can't wait to shoot some cannons and hunt for gold

#267 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I think that's people wanting their money's worth.

And they will get it. It's a great pin.

LTG : )

#268 2 years ago

LOL. Well, butter my butt and call me a biscuit!! If that’s the case, I’d be steering clear of Disney in the future and going with Warner Bros! Ditch Toy Story and go with a Warner asset.

#269 2 years ago
Quoted from thejacko1010:

Well no man's sky was mostly procedurally generated, jjp just pics 25 of the 105 modes, and then with the different characters to choose, it roughly gets to that number, but it's mostly just a selling point.

That's still really cool, though, like if TZ had 100 episode modes.

#270 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

And they will get it. It's a great pin.
LTG : )

You're playing with the big boys at 10K-12K.

At these numbers, you are competing with various other luxury goods. The "If It's Not Broken, It's Not Pinball" BS ain't gonna cut it any more.

#271 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

You're playing with the big boys at 10K-12K.

At these numbers, you are competing with various other luxury goods. The "If It's Not Broken, It's Not Pinball" BS ain't gonna cut it any more.

As quick as the CE's moved, I would imagine JJP is quite successful playing with the big boys.

LTG : )

#272 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

As quick as the CE's moved, I would imagine JJP is quite successful playing with the big boys.
LTG : )

Wow they are already fully paid for and shipped..... lol. Its easy to put a fully refundable deposit down over hype and excitement. Hopefully everyone stays in over the next 8-10 month's but lots of new pins will be available before the first ce even ship.

#273 2 years ago
Quoted from jcoble:

Wait, so there are no cutscenes from the movies either? What's the point of licensing a theme of you can't use the theme?

Yes there are cut scenes from the films, just none with faces.

Some live action clips I seen while playing:

Jack Sparrow the black spot spreading on his hand.
Guys running with the dead mans chest.
Pirates trapped in the large cage ball.
Skeletons in the row boat.
Man falling over cliff.
The black pearl sailing the seas.

These are just a few, early code much more to come.

#274 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The pinball machine will be MUCH better than the movies, that's a given
I'm a pirate looking at 60, on the back half of 55
The 40 yr old pirate that Jimmy Buffet sings about seems like yesterday though
Can't wait to shoot some cannons and hunt for gold

Awesome Buffet reference
Buffet for the win!

#275 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I think that's people wanting their money's worth.
At 10K-12K, people expect a perfect package and rightfully so.

Expectation is the mother of disappointment and perfection isn't a realistic goal in any endeavor. I've bought three JJP games and they've all been worth the money in my eye. When the company goes bankrupt we will know both their product and their prices no longer have a market.

#276 2 years ago
Quoted from trunchbull:

That's still really cool, though, like if TZ had 100 episode modes.

I would have never seen lost in the zone then, because I had a hard enough time seeing it with only 12 modes.

#277 2 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

You're playing with the big boys at 10K-12K.
At these numbers, you are competing with various other luxury goods. The "If It's Not Broken, It's Not Pinball" BS ain't gonna cut it any more.

Totally agree with this. I love this game and I want one bad, but I’m not paying the asking price no way in hell. If they would have made the standard 7500, my name would be on the pre order list right now. At these ridiculous prices this game should have cutscenes from the movies and call outs from the real actors. Even with those things there though, this game is still priced way too high.

I know some are going to say......yea but look at how much more you get compared to a Stern LE or a Premium etc. That still does not justify the prices that they are charging because ALL of these pinball machines are too high, Stern, Spooky, and JJP all three. The Stern Pro prices I can live with for now, but anything more than that is just too much IMO.

-2
#278 2 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

No, David Thiel is doing the sound package, and you can't tell because he's that good. He's created a fantastic musical package that fits the theme and sounds the part. Seriously it's that good.
Change a tone here and there, adjust a chorus and you really couldnt tell the difference.
.

Couldn’t tell the difference with what? With the original music?
That would sound like a plagiarism..

#279 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Wow they are already fully paid for and shipped..... lol. Its easy to put a fully refundable deposit down over hype and excitement. Hopefully everyone stays in over the next 8-10 month's but lots of new pins will be available before the first ce even ship.

"....lots of new pins will be available"

Huh? For those that put $ down on the CE's won't have any other options until maybe JJP #5 comes out. The only pinball options in that class is JJP. This is no different than other luxury items such as exotic cars or boats. There is a certain segment of the market now that wants only the best AND are willing to wait. JJP has entered that game and frankly are doing fairly well.

#280 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Couldn’t tell the difference with what? With the original music?
That would sound like a plagiarism..

Watch (and listen to) "The Orville". The music _isn't_ the actual Trek NG music, but it certainly evokes the Trek music (better than that of the new Trek).

A skilled composer (and that would be DT) can capture the flavor of existing music without plagiarizing it.

#281 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Couldn’t tell the difference with what? With the original music?
That would sound like a plagiarism..

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but there is a nice segment in a David Thiel presentation where he talks about "recreating" some music for the Alien pinball machine. I'm not sure what you'd call it, I'd call it an homage to the Alien(s) music, but it's not a direct copy.

There is a bunch of, potentially, interesting info in the presentation, but this is the Alien segment:

#282 2 years ago

I keep on watching videos, but i still cannot get into the potc vibe. It is a generetic pirates pin to me so far. Very dissapointing.

#283 2 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

I keep on watching videos, but i still cannot get into the potc vibe. It is a generetic pirates pin to me so far. Very dissapointing.

Definitely feels like a more generic pirates theme to me also.... matter of opinion if thats good or not...

#284 2 years ago

Trying to decide on taking the plunge or not. Would be CE or bust for me. Stay tuned.

#285 2 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Trying to decide on taking the plunge or not. Would be CE or bust for me. Stay tuned.

Y not its only 13k after shipping....

#286 2 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Y not its only 13k after shipping....

Not if you find the right Distributor!

#287 2 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

I keep on watching videos, but i still cannot get into the potc vibe. It is a generetic pirates pin to me so far. Very dissapointing.

Id prefer a more creative pirates pin vs. over using assets from the mediocre movies.
Like what I see so far, not really clear what vibe you expected.

#288 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Not if you find the right Distributor!

Still over 12k ....when u get this crazy whats 500-1000 more lol

#289 2 years ago

Only bigwig actors with power like Depp are going to control the movie assets or have some say in how they are used. Most of the regular cast doesn't have that kind of pull, and the studio controls the assets how they like.

#290 2 years ago

Incorrect in the case of Disney and the pirates films, but thanks for your input anyway.

-3
#291 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballomatic:

Incorrect in the case of Disney and the pirates films, but thanks for your input anyway.

You're incorrect, but I don't thank you for your input anyway.

#292 2 years ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but there is a nice segment in a David Thiel presentation where he talks about "recreating" some music for the Alien pinball machine. I'm not sure what you'd call it, I'd call it an homage to the Alien(s) music, but it's not a direct copy.

David sure is good at what he does. You think of some of those Tron pieces that aren't Daft Punk, yet fit the game without you thinking about it much.

And these Alien segments, I don't think I would have considered them not from the movie, until pointed out.

#293 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

You're incorrect,

He's Not. He works for JJP and knows the situation with Disney and this game.

-4
#294 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

He's Not. He works for JJP and knows the situation with Disney and this game.

More likely they have the minor characters, but lacking Depp and Bloom, went with the all or nothing approach.

#295 2 years ago

I hope Eric, Keith, and company are more focused on rules, scoring, balances, gameplay, and code more so than having Johnny depp and Orlando blooms mug plastered everywhere. This is a pirates of the Caribbean themed pin; yes, cpt jack sparrow is the main character of the movie, but there are lots and lots of material and plots to pull from to make a killer ‘pinball’ game Rather than recreating the movie.

I do hope they incorporate more call outs than one character (Gibbs); whether it’s from the movie or more hired talent. you typically need some cushion and support when you have so many custom call outs from one character.

But, My biggest problem isn’t whether the theme music or characters will be incorporated, JJP has proven on all 3 of their pins that integration of a theme is one of their strongest assets, my problem though is my wife wants POTC and I want Dialed In! LOL. We can’t afford either at the moment, but if tax season is generous for us for once, then perhaps we can swing for the fences

absolutely love what JJP is doing with Pinball and their dedication to it. I’ve owned a WOZ in the past, but really looking forward to owning more JJP pins in the near future.

PS - Kevin and Nick absolutely NAILED the reveal streaming session. Kudos to you guys and all parties involved with the JJP reveal. Keep up the good work guys. You’re kickin butt!

#296 2 years ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

talks about "recreating" some music

Don't forget, you can buy cover rights (much cheaper) and recreate the music or song. (I've done this many times) ...and I REALLY wanted Roadhouse Blues!

14
#297 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

More likely they have the minor characters, but lacking Depp and Bloom, went with the all or nothing approach.

Nope.

#298 2 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

I keep on watching videos, but i still cannot get into the potc vibe. It is a generetic pirates pin to me so far. Very dissapointing.

Bit too soon to be dissapointed. The code is on version 0.1 and I think that JJP has put the focus on having a good flipping game on Expo, not the one with the most music/video. There will come a lot more so dismissing it now as an option is not wise.

47
#299 2 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Couldn’t tell the difference with what? With the original music?
That would sound like a plagiarism..

I am very sensitive to copyright infringement. I have to be. I indemnify my clients and take the entire responsibility if I infringe.
So I have this tightrope that I walk on each license. I use the elements that are not subject to copyright like orchestration, genre, rhythm and stay very far away from melodies and chord changes.

It is not prudent for me to speak to what is or isn't licensed as these are not my issues, I have no control and very little knowledge of the negotiations.

I write custom music for pinball. Pinball music is a subset of all music. A lot of music cues from movies are evocative but would either be lost in pinball play or are just not right. So there is something to be said for music written expressly for this application.

I am a huge fan of the Klaus Badelt score for the first POTC film. Most of the memorable themes for POTC come from the first movie. Once successful Han Zimmer took over the franchise. If one were to believe the 'making of' videos Zimmer is credited for them. So why is Badelt listed? Strange.

So, once again I have the job of being as good as a great composer. It is inspiring and it is daunting. I do my best.

I will say that JJP did license some Pirate music assets from Disney that were created by Disney for a Pirate game. These assets are very 'piratey' and cinematic and are serving JPOTC well. I've written about six music cues including Out of Mode, Tortuga Multiball and some 'Chapter' cues. I will be writing more. I am happy with the sound package so far and I feel like this will be one of the best I have worked on when finished. I'm much better at orchestral orchestration than I was eleven years ago and hopefully players will embrace the work.

As far as callouts go the Gibbs session was a home run out of the park for pinball. Eric and crew put in the time to produce a comprehensive script. There are Gibb's lines from all five movies and a lot of 'pinball talk' which highlights achievements, instructs the player and make objectives clear. The actor is incredibly talented and all of it is in the build (though a lot of it still needs to be installed).

ddt

#300 2 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Yes there are cut scenes from the films, just none with faces.

POTC: Eyes Without a Face™ Edition.

Seriously though, it's a bummer not to have the original theme music but otherwise I think this issue's a bit overblown. Would it have been cool to have clips from the first, great, POTC movie? Sure, but then Disney would have insisted they include clips from all of the crappy sequels. Better to take the theme and let some creative folks play around with it to see what they can do around the edges of copyright law.

I'm never buying a $9000 pinball machine, but I'm excited to play JJPOTC on location.

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