Probably too early, but is there more detail on how selecting one of the 22 (?) characters affects things?

I don't want to be negative, but there are very few games where selecting a character (or similar i.e. House) makes much difference. I don't particularly mind it in Star Wars, but it doesn't really offer anything to me. Where as with GOT I think it makes sense. Conversely, I don't see how picking from 20+ characters is really going to enhance things. That having been said, I don't really know how the characters have been implemented. Does it really offer anything to the game play or is it just to say there are some 3.2 sextillion combinations for marketing purposes?

Probably too early in the dev cycle to say, but curious if people noticed anything around character selection that was noteworthy?

I don't believe those words have ever been put together in one sentence before.

Only while the Powerball is in play, lol.

For all the shit Stern has taken for their SWLE pricing, has anybody noticed that you're paying $3000 extra for a different topper and side armor if you upgrade from the LE to the CE?

Looks like the LE is the model to go with on this machine...if you can stand looking at Johnny Depp.

To be fair the ce looks way different(including the playfield) and is limited to 200.....

You also get the RadCals. That is a 400 dollar upgrade. Also the art is very different, as well on the cabinet as on the playfield. The CE looks like a shipwreck with the colors and barnacles. Also the topper is animated.

edit: oh and a printed manual

Point taken. But different art isn't added value or BOM. It just seems like hypocrisy to me. And you just listed far less than 1000 in upgrades. Im a huge JJP fan as everyone around here knows, but sometimes I think people really need to keep it real.

And BigD: being limited to 200 shouldn't be a reason to add another three thousand bucks.

I agree. $3000 difference for not much physical bonuses. Seems extremely steep. That certificate is getting more and more expensive. People going to have to start keeping those certificates in a safe since they seem to be costing $1000's now.

i think it would be resonable making a ce for ~2k more than the standard edition, maybe even unlimited numberwise , i bet way more people would buy such a game with different art and a few extras

If they do one featuring The Rock and keep the price down, I'd be interested!

Agreed but lots people think the limited thing adds value .... i dont

Avengers is better.

The topper on the CE is really cool but yeah can’t justify the CE price for me anyways.
I like the LE artwork better.

Certificates should be printed on a giant coupon good for $1,500 off on your next JJP purchase. Now that would truly make it valuable.

I'll have to trade for one of these and a DL. Hopefully, the HUO market doesn't tank like it did with Hobbit.

I have to say the topper is pretty cool, but I can't justify a topper costing 33% more than I paid for my car.

My wife said I should buy it only if it has Orlando Bloom promently displayed in attract mode.

LOTR it is then.

the ce is worth the extra, not having to look at dbag jd's face.
still 12500 for a pin is crazy!

$8500 is a lot of a machine. You can almost get 2 NIB pros for that money. When justifying purchases, I always compare costs to other pinball things, to see if that one game can compare to the fun of 2, 3 , 4 or 10 games. The standard is almost 2k more than I paid for my premium.

Are those replaceable decals on those discs?

Remember how nasty looking the NGG spinning disc became...

Curious if jjp has the same difficult pricing restrictions as Stern, or if some dealers can offer a lower price?

The heads are still the widest part of the machine and are the same on wide and standard bodies.

Call around, some dealers will definitely offer better deals.

You replace the top plastic surface of the disc. Eric gave a talk on that at the booth.

The cost of pinballs is getting stupid I agree. Even Stern has raised there prices while the quality of there pins has gone down. Everyone is really stuck in a no win situation if u look at it from both sides. Less $ = No quality. Good quality = high $.

Does I M Moon fall into this category?

no, you could buy 2 JJP games for something of that caliber.

Thought the reveal videos of Pirates I saw looked awesome. Ill be honest, i like J-douche, haha, he has done some wierd shit I like...Fear and Loathing in LV...but I have to agree i dont necessarily desire to stare at his campy money-maker pirate outfit every single time I step up to play... but hell man, 12.5G! ... how the heck am I gonna convince my Wife to let me shell out that kind of change just so I can get what looks like an otherwise sweet pirate game (which itself (a cool updated pirate game) I can totally get behind) that has the squid dude on the cabinet and playfield art instead...this is gonna be tough, because this game does look really cool and i wouldnt mind getting my hands on one. Maybe the prices aren't set in stone yet? I know JJP is accepting deposits, but does anyone think the prices may actually be a bit lower closer to time to ship/sell?

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The last time I heard a game designer tout THAT kind of thing as a feature (No Man's Sky), it didn't turn out quite so well. I'M JUST SAYIN'.

My wife won't even let me CONSIDER preordering, as she keeps reminding me how I've never even SEEN one of those movies.

Definitely looks like a great game though. Can't wait to see it in person. Think they'll being a few to FreePlayFlorida next month?

From talking to a few distributors this year, I got the impression that JJP's pricing restrictions are even tougher than Stern.

Interesting.... I'm a huge consumer of film and yet I've never seen the movies either. (But have seen Depp's Donnie Basco many times- so you know where I'm coming from)

There is very few if any Theme's in pinball that really speak to me - except perhaps Magic. I think I'm much more about the specifics of the gameplay, how fun it is, the shots, how well thought out it is and doesnit have staying power. Houdini looks great (and I really like the art work as well ) but probably will buy POTC instead because it just seems like a better and more innovative game.

Also since POTC is very light on the movies clips, music and callouts, it seems like a generic pirate game.

If theme were such a huge issue to me I would have been all over Star Wars, and I simply wasn't.

BTW the only theme I absolutely hate is TWD. I was a fan of night of the living dead and dawn of the dead as kid but zombies tales hold zero appeal for me at this stage.

I would be psyched for a Pulp Fiction pin but based on who owns the license, Im skeptical it may not live up to its potential.

Yes but for $8500 you would be getting a game that has many more features then any Stern game, including premiums / LE's, and about 5-10x the code, animation and audio work.

Perhaps they could incorporate a tournament mode to control these aspects tighter.

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Pinside top 100;

WoZ #18
Hobbit #28
DI #7

Must be doing something right from a theme point of view!

With their latest game looking even better.

Im a huge fan of moving concentric rings.....I have quite a few pieces around the use this...
Heres a few:

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The reason I don't like it, is that it's been done before. I honestly don't like the repeated theme and people get too defensive when pinsiders call it out on that. Then come the downvote posts because we don't like the theme? It is my unbiased opinion and I have no stake in it.

New pin, new innovation and then the theme is a repeat. One of those things is not like the other. I would like to see more innovation and thought process when themeing a pin, that's all. Don't we as consumers want that? Companies want more and more money every year for their product but offer recycled material, why? Well I think we know the answer, $$$. Let's make a product that's entirely new so people will want it that much more. Will the game sell, sure, they all do but they may be missing out on maximizing their sales in my opinion. Will I play it? Sure I'll play it. Will I buy it NIB? Not a chance and it's not for the reason of the pricing of new pins.

I'm not saying I have the next theme breakthrough idea however, I find this release as a lazy fillin to get product finalized. I'm sorry most on this thread don't agree. Feel free to agree or disagree. Thank you.

There's only one opinion allowed on Pinside: The right one.

Well okay agree to disagree then
Lazy fill-in to get product finalized
Amazing concept
You were in on the decision making I guess I don’t recall seeing you there
Whatever
To each his own

I am not getting defensive here at all, but i do find this statement from you as curious when you have a Revenge from Mars (which was done before as Attack from mars) and a Stern Star Trek (which was done before a Star Trek The Next Generation.

Just because a theme has been done before doesn't mean it shouldn't be done again. Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jone, Black Knight, High Speed, 8 Ball, i am sure there are more. My point is that even though they were all done once before, new movies, new technology, new elements have been added to make each one different from the previous one.

The pinball public has spoken. the number of JJP PotC being sold is amazing. It's okay if you don't like it, but at the same time you can't criticize based on the fact that "it has been done already" and then have almost half of your collection be "redone themes."

I am super proud of my brother and his team (and probably a little over protective), but what they have done is not a retheme of the Stern game, but a JJP version of a Pirates of the Caribbean game.

i will have to agree with steve. "agree to disagree then"

In the modern era of pins we need more innovation. My collection is on the old school of design theme as is most to all of ours, and we keep doing the same things is my point on theme. Our choices are unnecessarily limited. Hoping manufacturers turn the corner here is all I would like to see. I'll probably buy DI one day but not going to happen with this theme.

There is a specific reason a pirate theme was chosen. Jack said in one of the recent interviews that when he was a selling machines (before JJP) he once took orders for 100 POTC in one day. That convinced him it was a theme that sold to a wide array of customers, including women.

So while I understand people lamenting for original themes, JJP clearly did this with DI. They have a great strategy on their last 2 releases - one completely original with no track record and one proven. And they hit a home run with both.

My only "problem" is deciding which one to order as my one and only pin.

I've played DI and love it, but I'm also tempted by that rocking play field onPOTC

Also KingPin has a right to be incredibly proud of his brother. I can't wait to see what other amazing stuff he will come up with in the future. ERic did say in an interview that it was actually a friend of his that experimented putting an entire play field on a rocking mechanism, and he thought the idea was perfect for a game about a pirate ship.

JJP's Pirates of the Caribbean is a fantastic game. I was thrilled to be able to play this first hand at Expo this year (was one of the few things that made it worthwhile this year). Those that know me know I'm not a big fan of JJP games. I think Dialed In has a fantastic layout and smooth, fun interesting shots but I just don't connect with the theme. Pirates has both - great satisfying shots and a theme that I believe is timeless. It's Pirates for crying out loud! Whether it was based on the original movies or not, the whole nautical theme has so many cool things to pull from that it makes it timeless. The fact that they have so many movies with great video, sounds and images to pull from will make this game a hit. And I agree, so what if a POTC game was done before - this design blows the previous version out of the water. No more grinding out hitting the ship over and over and over again, or hitting tortuga over and over and over, or the chest over and over and over. They both will have their place, but this is the first JJP pin that may have a place in my house.

Eric did a fantastic job with the layout with some very satisfying and fun shots and combos. Risk reward with the compass is going to be awesome when finished, I love the bump save on the right side drain (this is brilliant), and since "immersion" is the buzzword for this forum, this game has plenty of it. An upper playfield that rocks like a ship in big waves? A treasure chest with physical ball locks? A whirlpool ramp? A canon shooting the ball? Spinning map like in the movies? I can't think of many games with that many "toys" that tie so well into a theme. Honestly, really, really well done game showing that a rookie designer can do great things.

With 200? modes and 20? characters, JJP has their work cut out for them in making them all awesome and unique, but I'm sure they will knock it out of the park.

Fair enough thanks for explaining anyway. The game flat out rocks and has tons of cool stuff that hasn’t been done pretty much ever or at least in this way (the spinning disc assembly is a thing of pinball engineering beauty and despite the three motors and relays, optos and leds and the disc surface which is rigid and grabby yet transparent in spots and it can do so many things but it has a very shallow elegant profile that doesn’t weigh down or clutter up the underside of the field).
The rocking pearl Playfield is reminiscent of the Path on IJ but it can do cool stuff in addition like the player can control the speed at which it rocks - I don’t mean in the settings menu I mean while flipping - and it has the MM castle flip up style gate to load the cannon shot, which then rather than be stagnant like on taxi or big guns is challenging on two levels because of the rocking field - yes t2 and dh and AC/DC and others have moving gun turrets but this one moves on a different plane so that’s at least different somewhat. The activate enclosed magnetic area on the back right has been done different ways before either with a captive ball (Hollywood heat GNR) or with a disc and targets around it (arena CSI op thunder and lots of games including yes Sterns POTC) but this is a variation of that at least.
The subway underneath has five entrances which I guess is reminiscent of STTNG although certainly not the same. Left side whirlpool ramp screams Black Rose except this one has a funky diverter to knock the ball down the whirlpool funnel in the middle (whitewater although used differently here) which is pretty damn cool I think although you may disagree.
The software is cool and will be very cool when finished.
The compass on the apron can either be somewhat passive in just displaying information or can become an integral part of the game if you trap and hit the action button to differentiate shots.
Spinners - a popular pinball staple - these have leds on top for a neat flicker lighting effect.
What else did I miss? Help me Chris and those out there who know.
So yeah I agree we need innovation not the same thing over and over. Woz hobbit and DI were never done before licenses and games 5 and 6 coming up are new also.
Too bad this one isn’t for you.

Well no man's sky was mostly procedurally generated, jjp just pics 25 of the 105 modes, and then with the different characters to choose, it roughly gets to that number, but it's mostly just a selling point.

In my mind a theme is chosen to get the biggest ROI. Pretty much every theme has been taken to date that could be had. Probably the only one left of magnitude is HP. So you then are left with three door choices. Door #1, an original them....they just did that and are having limited success. Door #2, use a theme that hasn't been done before. To be honest, the choices are fairly scarce. No matter what you choose, there will be a limited market that will be drawn to it. Or Door #3, redo a theme that you can do a hell of a lot better than the first one. That is the door JJP took. Personally I don't blame them. If I were them, I would be looking for anything to get new customers that love pinball. The average age of Pinsiders is getting up there and are going to start dying off. You need something to get Millennials interested in pinball. That starts with a theme they can relate to. Oh btw, that new market has no clue it has been done before. Remember, for pinball to survive, they HAVE to get to the untapped market. This market will start dying off soon. That is the hard truth.

Sounds great.

Saw this on Buffalo stream and had to order it. (Thanks Joe@PinballStar!). It'll look great next to my Hobbit, Dialed In and TWD. Selling my MMRLE to make room/fund the purchase.
JJP is taking over my game room!!!

crwjumper that is pretty close to my dream lineup. Hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks my TWD premium will be here! I am guessing your TWD is holding up pretty good if you are keeping it and selling MMRLE.