(Topic ID: 269675)

Pinwoofer- Review

By Shredso

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by broada
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

2020-05-23 11.49.46 (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

This will likely be long with a lot of useless information. In summary, buy some Pinwoofer kits.

I kept reading posts with people raving about the Pinwoofer kit. The reviews were overwhelmingly positive, kinda like the Amazon reviews where they give away free stuff if you give a positive review. Fakespot doesn't work on Pinside, so I had to give it a try. Unfortunately I had to pay for it. My Metallica already had a Flipper Fidelity kit, but a lot of the reviews were specifically for Metallica, so I'll jump on the bandwagon.

Audiophiles and wine experts are an interesting breed, and largely full of crap. I've fallen into the trap myself, expensive phono cartridges, preamps, constantly changing out components, etc. The question is, how can you give an honest review after you just spent a bunch of money and time? Of course you want it to sound better and will probably talk yourself into thinking it sounds better, especially if everyone is saying it sounds better.

The only way to make a fair comparison would be to A/B them side by side, not an hour later. You would need to record it. Cell phone video won't do, needs to be something with better quality.

#2 1 year ago

Keep drinking this is going to be epic!

#3 1 year ago

I'll warn you again, this was an attempt at a scientific review attempt that falls short, just so you don't read 3 pages of crap to find little scientific results.

This is an Audio Technica AT3035 condenser mic. It's a decent home studio mic, not the cheapest, not even close to the most expensive. I have it at ear level. I ran it into a Tascam DR40. Cheap little handheld, but decent quality. I probably should have run a long cable to the DAW, but I was lazy.

The comparisons I was hoping to get were

1. Flipper Fidelity with external sub
2. Flipper Fidelity, no external sub
3. Flipper Fidelity speakers, Pinwoofer preamp
4. Pinwoofer sub, FF backbox speakers
5. Full Pinwoofer system

I chose Sad But True to do my comparisons. I'm one of those "I like early Metallica" guys and don't often listen to anything beyond And Justice for All, but there is no denying the production of the Black album is great.

2020-05-23 11.49.46 (resized).jpg

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

Keep drinking this is going to be epic!

I haven't started yet, but if the posts start to get a little fuzzy you will know why....

#5 1 year ago

I will post some Google drive links to recordings as I edit them down. This microphone might be a little too sensitive for this application, and I may have had the gain a little too hot. They all sound really boomy. I'm not sure they are of any value, but I tried.

I started with everything hooked up, got a recording and went to disconnect the external sub. It was already disconnected. I don't remember disconnecting it. Hooked it back up, its very noisy. Maybe it's the cable? Was it always this noisy? No idea. Recorded that.

Anyway, went to get set up for the next recording and realized I had the low pass filter switch in the "on" position. Not ideal when I'm trying to review a subwoofer. I re-recorded with the subwoofer and LPF off. There is a noticeable difference with the LPF off. Unfortunately I don't have the FF kit without the external sub, without the LPF on, so I've already killed the experiment.

Listen with some headphones, these will probably all sound the same on computer speakers.

FF Ext Sub LPF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdcpg2lizlfcfki/FF%20Ext%20Sub%20LPF.wav?dl=0

FF Ext Sub No LPF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5dcim3j80at84lu/FF%20Ext%20Sub%20No%20LPF.wav?dl=0

FF No Sub LPF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lea7c6155bozx0j/FF%20No%20Sub%20LPF.wav?dl=0

#6 1 year ago

On to the install! I told you it would be long. There are a lot of parts, and a lot of instructions. Small criticism, but it would been nice to have one set of instructions for the game I was working on. There were 4 or 5 documents to read through and a pile of parts. It would have also been nice if the game specific instructions told you what parts were extra.

Everything is well packaged, and the directions were decent. The power connects to the same spot as the Color DMD and other mods. Luckily I had a splitter. Pinwoofer emailed me asking if I had the playfield support rails, which I do. Installed the subwoofer, lowered the playfield, doesn't fit. Support rails are hitting the speaker. The mounting bracket is universal and has lots of holes, I turned it 90 degrees and favored the speaker slightly to the left. Now everything fits. I'm not certain if my rails are in the factory suggested spot, it was a mod I put in, there were no drilled holes if I remember correctly. Not an issue.

I powered everything on holding the bare copper of the Pinwoofer leads to the FF sub.
HOLY COW!!
This wasn't a difference you needed some elaborate recording rig for. It's night and day. No comparison at all. Huge improvement.
I should have recorded this step, but I didn't want to waste any connectors. If I were to guess the Pinwoofer sub sounded better, but not by a ton. Hopefully the recording shows all the low mids that were previously nonexistent.

PW Sub FF Backbox
https://www.dropbox.com/s/62kuvozn7nusfbw/PW%20Sub%20FF%20Backbox.wav?dl=0

#7 1 year ago

Backbox speaker install! The speakers needed to be rotated a certain way to fit, and I needed to break off one of the mounting tabs. They do mention this might be necessary for mounting in some games in the instructions. This took a little trial and error, but it was very late. I probably should have resumed the next day.

The amp install was awesome. They included magnets, it snaps on to the Color DMD, no drilling necessary (I'm assuming this works with metal backbox games as well). This is great because I'll probably keep this kit if I sell the game.

I was getting a little interference noise, I moved the cable coming for the LED OCD board and it went away.

Overall I'm very happy with the sound. This isn't a speaker upgrade, it's a sound system upgrade.

Here is a link to the folder with all of the files if anyone wants to do a comparison.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v5qlp3x76l05tq3/AADwXQEBA1iS9vLM_NI0VkWla?dl=0

#8 1 year ago

Yup. They are awesome on met, u should hear em on imdn. Incredible difference!!

#9 1 year ago

Pinwoofer walked me through my install, same, had to figure out extra hardware, but man, I’d dig through a Radio Shack inventory all damned day to get the improvement Pinwoofer made! All around perfect balance, zero distortion, and crisp treble.

Man knows his stuff! Highly recommend! ( on my WMS IJ btw)

#10 1 year ago

Hmm.. thanks for the review. Glad I got it yesterday for my Tron. Just need a few hours to put away for it.

#11 1 year ago

I also have pinwoofer kit in my tron and my met. Highly recommend it no need for external sub now.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Hayfarmer:

Yup. They are awesome on met, u should hear em on imdn. Incredible difference!!

I bought 2 kits, 2nd one is going in Maiden. I think I'll just install that one without the elaborate recording and review...

#13 1 year ago

I have them in most of my pins. So good. No need for the external sub. It’s playing second spot in my theater now!

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredso:

I bought 2 kits, 2nd one is going in Maiden. I think I'll just install that one without the elaborate recording and review...

I have a maiden premium and I've never heard a pin sound so good. Only game I really crank up volume to ridiculous level, and I'm not even a fan. 2 mins to midnite rocks!!

#15 1 year ago

Man...you guys are making making my credit card hide! I might have to dig it out and use it for my Luci.

#16 1 year ago

I have Pinwoofer on ACDC, Met, KISS, Beatles, JP Premium, and TRON LE. Was never a fan of external subs and the other popular pinball speaker upgrades always fell short of my expectations. This is a full spectrum audio upgrade. Definitely more work to install, but worth the effort (and Dan is incredibly responsive to making the process smooth).

Highly recommend.

#17 1 year ago

I bought a kit for JP2...then pulled the trigger on 10 more! It's an upgrade that doesn't disappoint. Buy with confidence if you appreciate better sound quality!

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Shredso:

If I were to guess the Pinwoofer sub sounded better, but not by a ton. Hopefully the recording shows all the low mids that were previously nonexistent.

Greetings Shredso ! First, thank you for doing such a detailed and objective review - we really appreciate the attention to detail and the time required to this.

We listened carefully to the audio clips. In our opinion, you are spot-on with your "low mids" comment; the moment the PinWoofer track started it was immediately apparent to us what was in play. There is most definitely a signature in the 200-500Hz range from our kit. An external sub typically has it's power concentrated below 200Hz and a stock cabinet speaker is pretty weak below about 500Hz. The in-cabinet PinWoofer driver has a great response below 200Hz but a superior response in the 200-500Hz range which improves the blend in the low-mid / high bass band. This is where much of the track "presence" can be found.

One final comment and possibly the most important. The backbox amp and speakers are vital to balancing the system. With the exception of a few titles / trims, the vast majority of stock backboxes fall woefully short of the potential that the track offers. With improved backbox speakers and our amp, one can hear call-outs and effects with much greater clarity and well defined bracketing compared to the de-rated stock amp and paper cone speakers.

We offer a complete solution.

#19 1 year ago

Sounds awesome. Maybe one day I'll grow the courage to hit the submit button. I keep putting two Spike 2 kits in the cart and keep closing it after $516 pops up. Maybe there will be a free shipping discount for black Friday in July or the real black Friday or some other discount that will push me over the edge. Deffidently sounds like an nice kit and the PinWoofer crew seem like a good business.

2 weeks later
#20 1 year ago

I bought the sub kit for my Iron Maiden and don't regret it one bit; it truly adds a ton to the machine. This was my first modding experience and the instructions and process was super clear and easy to do for a first timer. Dan at pinwoofer was super helpful answering my questions and replying to my emails very promptly. I'm super happy with the product and service he provided, can't recommend it enough and will definitely be my go-to for the next machines.

2 weeks later
#21 1 year ago

PinWoofer is simply put " the best " upgrade for your Pin you can get !! I have one in my Met and ACDC and if you want crisp clear sound and deep bass, the PinWoofer Super Kit is the way to go.I was not happy with the stock speakers, with the muffled voices and music, and went through different kits that others thought sounded good, in my opinion, they aren't even close to PinWoofers Super Kit, its far and above more clear and brings out clarity in both the backbox and cabinet speakers to a whole new level ...Dan is there every step of the way. Very easy install, and if you should need any help, he is there with anything you need for a smooth install. Don't hesitate , buy one !!

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from BigalzPinz:

PinWoofer is simply put " the best " upgrade for your Pin you can get !! I have one in my Met and ACDC and if you want crisp clear sound and deep bass, the PinWoofer Super Kit is the way to go.I was not happy with the stock speakers, with the muffled voices and music, and went through different kits that others thought sounded good, in my opinion, they aren't even close to PinWoofers Super Kit, its far and above more clear and brings out clarity in both the backbox and cabinet speakers to a whole new level ...Dan is there every step of the way. Very easy install, and if you should need any help, he is there with anything you need for a smooth install. Don't hesitate , buy one !!

I think it's safe to say it's not an opinion...PinWoofer is the best audio upgrade on the market! Considering the high build quality, it's also fairly priced when compared with other products.

Saying it's a "very easy install" is definitely more of an opinion Dan offers super support, however my install time was on average 1 hour (I'm pretty anal on wire management and fit-and-finish). On SAM installs I hit some snags with the rings that I imagine Dan has solved. In any event, the extra install pain was worth the gain in every instance. Just don't want to give people the impression it's a 10 minute install.

#23 1 year ago

It’s definitely not a 10 minute install , but like the directions state , if you take your time and relax ,,, under an hour is not an exaggeration,,,I have absolutely no experience in installing this type of thing, and “in my opinion “ it was a breeze,

#24 1 year ago

That and Dan will literally walk you through it over the phone if you want. Fantastic customer service.

#25 1 year ago

I can't tell you how much we appreciate your patience on the install time and with the instructions. Back in the day I would say "installs in about an hour" but I revised that to "one to two hours" because realistically, that's what it takes. However, once you see what's going on the second kit is much easier. A similar comparison might be installing a car stereo; that will take a couple of hours so I don't know that our install time is completely unreasonable but we are working hard to bring it down in a significant way.

Quality instructions are difficult to write and I've received many an email literally saying "great instructions, it was easy" etc., while other guys have constructive feedback which we take seriously and incorporate as much as is possible and relevant. Some feedback is in-between but in the end I am certain we have never left anyone behind since we track every kit outcome closely. We have some open cases for guys who don't respond / stop responding, and we stop hounding them after two emails and 60 days. I am always willing to help break you loose so I hope that making myself available to help out makes up for any troubles you might have.

Learning the subtle differences among the 125+ titles we support and the different trim packages, vault runs and speaker panels, other speaker kit wiring and not to mention documentation errors in the manufacturers manuals and specs has been a huge challenge. It is impossible for us to know all of these variants at time zero but over time, customer interaction and feedback have helped us to become what we are today and we are immensely appreciative of this. It really bothers me when a customer is "broken" or must deal with a specific variance and feed it back to us. The good news is that we have matured and there are far fewer surprises today compared to 6-12 months ago so the effort has been worth the outcome!

Thank you for your strong support!

11 months later
-6
#26 5 months ago

Unfortunately the pinwoofer kits are poor quality made in China. The soundbuttons feels cheap and not accurate at all. Further he dont accept his own product to take back... When I started about a review he comes up with an vague proposal to end up still stealing money from me

The pinwoofer set add nothing to a premium or le. If you have a pro just swap the backbox and cabinet speakers. You can easily do settings in the menu and you don't need such a clumsy poor quality equalizer for that.

See https://flipperfidelity.com/stern-10-3-way-speaker-system-le-spike-2-pro-and-premium/
It’s cheaper and better!

#27 5 months ago

Hmmmm. Same troll type post in the other thread…. Fishy.

1 month later
#28 3 months ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Here is a link to the folder with all of the files if anyone wants to do a comparison.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v5qlp3x76l05tq3/AADwXQEBA1iS9vLM_NI0VkWla?dl=0

Hi Shredso, this link from a while ago no longer works. By any chance do you still have these audio files available?

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside