Yeah, I wonder how many sales of other products PinSound has missed due to this blatant stealing of Rob's reset board. I know I'm not buying a Pinsound board for my Dr. Who due to this sleaziness. Speak with your wallet - it is the loudest voice you have.

Been a lot of that going around. Last count, there were 5 or 6 people copying my LED adapters. It’s one thing I really appreciate in the pin community that guys like all of you are willing to stick up for people like Kahr and I.

Stopped me from getting a PinSound board as well. Picked up a TiltAudio board instead. Have the Altsound standard sounds on it now for testing but got a Dr Who Mix from an author of the mix before submitted to pinsound so will try to use that instead. Once there are more sound sets it should be a viable option.

I was considering pinsound sound boards for a couple of my favorite games before this situation was first reported, but then decided against giving them my business.

It's one thing to bring back a product idea that was discontinued, no longer available, and that the original developer has no interest in producing anymore (which is not the case here). It's something else to make a knock off of an active product without the original developer's blessing.

I like Rob. He's a good guy. I've enjoyed chatting with him at shows. Treating a fellow pinhead in this way--especially one of the good eggs in the hobby--doesn't sit well with me.

The bad guy & the good guy huh? Funny how it's easy for everybody to decide who is right or wrong, even though you don't know the whole story.

We consider more options are better for everybody, as it's the case for all the products you can find around you.
Speaking of stealing is definitely not acceptable as we do have a completely different product, thank you.

Pinball is a fantastic community and I thought Rob was a close friend, but as we say, ego is the enemy...

Homepin also jumped on the bandwagon.

It's not about what you have now, It's about how you got there... copying another product to advance your product is cheap, lazy and greedy. Just think for a moment if someone did this to you and your product. Not so nice eh?

PinSound guys are best buds with the German rasp pi sound guys

Especially you though.....

The great thing about this forum is you can tell the whole story if you wish.

Those who steal ideas and business out from under someone else, usually do.

In WHAT sense, exactly, is it 'completely different'??

Please explain, why your product is completely different.

Let me help about the descriptions from webpages:

Kahr.us:
This circuit creates a unique 5 volt power source for the MPU board.

Pinsound:
No More Reset guarantees a stable 5 volts power supply to the CPU board of your pinball machine no matter how hard and often you flip!

You’d think with all the negative feelings toward PinSound about this they would have tried to save face. I mean is this board so important to them that they need to keep selling it at what cost to the company they started. I was in on the PinSound preorder when they started up years ago and knew they were on to something by offering a great new product. But my views on the company now have soured as this debacle has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Sort of sealed it for me when you doubled down by trying to claim that Rob is now the bad guy who supposedly did something wrong to destroy a friendship. Honestly, Rob has said very little, other than to say that he did not work with you to license or create a directly competing product built on the same design and with the same final function. The fantastic community that you speak about are the ones that are coming on this thread to defend someone who put his IP into a product for all of us. There was no un-met need that you are now trying to fill.

If there are parts of this story that we do not know about, please share.

Are you for real? What kind of sociopath steals the concept and design from a "friend" and then blames the victim for not being a good friend? Wow, you are a snake in the grass.

Hey Pinsound. Every time someone mentions Pinsound to me I bring up this thread and let them read your responses. Was it worth losing me *and everyone who is reading about it* as a customer in order to make whatever extra profit you’re making off your version of Rob’s board?

I kinda feel this way too. Plus the fact he said it's totally different and won't tell is how .... I wanted a pinsound board for my funhouse, so I'm hoping that maybe, you know for the good of us all in the hobby, someone can make a sound board that is totally different but does the same thing and sell it to me cheaper?

Still waiting for questions to be answered bump.

Not sure if it is possible, but did Rob patent this idea?

Following this thread because I met Rob briefly at SFGE a few years ago, purchased his product and he was a great guy. I've used it for debug and it's great.

Regarding the patent... I don't know if Rob attempted this, but my 2 cents...

I think getting a patent for this would be very challenging and, if successful, would end up being a very narrow patent. Narrow patents aren't that useful because they are easy for someone to avoid.

More importantly, there's no global patent. You need to get individual countries to approve your patent. Even if Rob did get a patent in the USA, it doesn't mean it's applicable to France. He could, of course, try and get protection in the USA and France, but that's more money and more effort.

Finally, even if he did have a patent that covered the appropriate locations, that's not worth anything unless you are willing to spend $$$ and go after people.

All that said, I think the best Pinsiders can do to help Rob is to purchase from him and not from egregious and unnecessary copycats.

After reading this discussion I bought Kahr's basic little board. Took only couple of days to arrive in the Netherlands! Works like a charm and great service. I would not hesitate to order again!

Glad to hear you got an original.

Of course, it is hard not to order "the original" when you have some background information from this forum on this subject.

Foist on his own petard....

I don't think you're allowed to say "petard" anymore. It's "special needs" now.

Trying to be funny, okay, but for the ignorant people that aren't going to bother to look it up... a petard is more or less a grenade...a small bomb. I just know some idiot is going to come in here behind your post and act like I called someone the other word...

Agreed...but as you know, I love to flush out the idiots.

Sorry I stepped out for a moment... We're you looking for me?

And the best news: no more reboots!

There is a lot more going on here than might be obvious to many (particularly USA posters).

Some people should put away the pitchforks and look at the bigger picture here.

The Kahr board is, without doubt a great and innovative product and is a great resource - mostly for USA customers! Whilst Kahr might aspire to be the only person making and selling these worldwide that isn't realistic.

Postage to Europe and Australia/New Zealand is RIDICULOUSLY high from the USA. If a pinball enthusiast wanted to buy a couple of these boards in any country outside Nth America the postage cost is likely to be at least DOUBLE what the parts cost.

I don't blame other companies from making a similar product available to pinball enthusiasts OUTSIDE the USA because otherwise they just wouldn't be available AT ALL basically.

Whilst the Kahr board is a great product it is hardly rocket surgery and the extreme screaming and yelling in this thread is bordering on insanity clearly exhibited by some! There really are some easily butt hurt people around these days.

Ready for the flaming and the "how dare you........enlighten us with reality"

Ridiculous. Try explaining that one to the judge: "But...Your Honor! I was just trying to save people money on shipping!" Your explanation justifies all the knockoff crap coming out of China, too. I guess that's perfectly fine as well...and I hope you're as forgiving if you ever come up with a innovative product that somebody else decides to copy.

The solution for me is simple: I buy my reset boards from Rob, and I buy my sound cards from Nicolas. They both make fine products, but I do find this whole thing a little sketchy.

I don’t know the whole story here, but I agree that shipping on one or two boards overseas can be pretty high. But the solution is not to make your own product and start selling it as a copy. Instead, enter into a distribution agreement. I’m sure Kahr could send a few hundred boards to Pinsound for overseas distribution. Sounds like something couldn’t be or didn’t want to be worked out, which hurts both companies.

Shipping is not pricey at all.

Board in US: $32 (Classic)
Shipped to Europe via direct fund transfer: 32 EUR, ~$41. Not a disaster.

I'll have to remember that one, totally fine to rip off some ones product if you feel there shipping is to expensive, Wish id know this loop hole sooner! If this was the case just setup a Distributor like every other company out there that sells internationally in large volumes.

Just ordered a KAHR board for my whitewater ( I think it only resets when everyone on my street is cranking their A/C). Thanks, Rob!

The thing that gets me was that Pinsound was stocking the Kahr daughter boards, therefore being a valid freight option. Afterwards told Rob they weren't really moving, then went and copied the design and made their own boards to sell.

I really don't understand why they would take a design on such a small ticket Item, while they are focusing on selling big ticket Items.

Personally twice I have almost bought a Pinsound, then remembered this thread, and thought thought nope personally I can't support a company like that

I wish that I had purchased the Kahr board. After overmodding (probably) my Funhouse I bought the one from Pinball Haus because I saw the ad and that is what I had found during searches. Actually created a really bad buzzing noise, so I had to remove it and get independent power for one of the mods. Would have rather patronized the original creator but did not know.

Well, at least you’re giving a bump to this thread so others don’t make the same mistake.

You did it right. Don't put in some "magic board"...instead, you introduced a separate power supply. That's the RIGHT way to do it.

Then if it resets, time to figure out "why" rather than "well, pop that in for years, then sell my game and let someone else buy my problems".

I ever go to buy a game and I see that board, I'm reducing the price or walking away. If I am buying someone else's inability to diagnose a problem properly, that price is getting lowered...

This is not always the case. There a people out there that install one of these on all of their games to prolong the life of their power supplies. The 5v supply is overloaded anyway. Some people use this board for troubleshooting. Some use it as a cheap short cut fix.

I just ordered another of Rob's boards for a new WPC game I just acquired that is having some reset issues. I realize the whole "fix the root problem first", but this particular pin has had completely rebuilt boards by some of the best in the business and been completely gone through. I just like the Kahr board experience in my other pins over the last 5 years or so and will count on it to get me through some upcoming home tourney's that I'm having.

Not only a great product, but the customer service is beyond reproach. Stay away from the imposters!!

Bumping this thread as a reminder that Pinsound is still selling the no reset board that was based/ripped off on the idea and product developed by Kahr. I will not support or purchase Pinsound products due to this and encourage others to avoid supporting Pinsound until the product is removed or pays Kahr royalties that are acceptable to him.

How many pinsiders who say they’re boycotting Pinsound are going back on their word when they put a deposit down for a Funhouse Rudy’s Nightmare kit?

Pinsound is clearly not worried about this thread, judging by their response. I'll be sure to link to this thread any time I read about someone recommending them. LAME

You seem to be the one with the ego.
You know you stole Rob's Idea and made "better" ... ok. sure.
I have a single Pinsound board at work and one I bought several years ago when you first started.
I think my plan at this point is to fix the sound board at work... replace it. and drop both in the trash.
You sir; are not an asset to this community but rather a opportunistic a-hat.