This is not a good story. Nicolas stopped stocking my daughterboards about two years ago but never took them off his website. He stopped restocking them because they "weren't profitable enough" meaning he wanted a better price. I just learned yesterday he created a knock-off of my board. I've known him for several years and spoken to him many times at shows - sometimes even with the little bit of French I still remember. I considered him a friend - this is disappointing and it hurts.

Legitimate resellers of my Daughterboard are Marco, Big Daddy Enterprises, and Little Shop of Games in the US, Flippers.com and Player One Amusement Group in Canada, and PinballHeaven in Europe. If Nicolas has been shipping his knock-off to fulfill sales from the old listing of the legitimate WPC Power fix, that is even more disappointing, but suddenly wouldn't seem that surprising.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my Daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

These things are never good... It sucks when people have to copy instead of create. I used your board to fix a nasty issue with a WW and that game is still up and running today. Thank You for being there for us. I will always look forward to patronizing your business.

By designing "No More Reset", we wanted to create the best possible solution to handle the WPC reset issues, easy to use for the pinball collectors.

We were not satisfied with the various existing products available on the market, that's why we spent many months on a
completely fresh new design.

We integrated in No More Reset many important features that we consider a must-have for this product:
- prevent misfiring coil at startup
- make sure the 5V original power supply design is respected: the CPU won't start if there is no 5V at all
- mis-insertion mechanical protection
- LEDs status to diagnose instantly how the system is running
- no soldering
- no permanent modification
- over/short circuit protected
- factory burn tested
- sleek design

Have a look:
NMR_HD_front_web-450x500 (resized).jpg

We spent months designing the No More Reset with all these features,
at PinSound we never copy a product!

Every year, we invest a lot of time in research and development to offer only original products with the best features. Stay tuned for the incoming products!

Rob: It's not nice to assume we are shipping a product for another one, products we are selling online are only original product, we don't ship a product for another one.
That's said, give us your address so we can ship you one No More Reset (for free of course) so you can test our product and appreciate our original design (an even maybe improve your product )
About retailing, our offer is still on the table if you want to work together, you know our email address, no hard feeling. Anyway catch you at TPF 2020, we can speak French anytime

For those of you who wants to make your own idea, we are currently having a "
Buy 3 Get 1 for free" offer right now: coupon code at checkout "BLACHERE19"

https://www.pinsound.org/no-more-reset/

More products, more choices for pinball collectors!

Good old Homepin’s in on the act as well...

606BB3C6-3A20-4643-8E46-36C3DAF0939E (resized).jpeg

No shit, since the chips run off of 5v. This.. is common sense.

This ain't original, and maybe you should be putting more of your time into the PinSound, and promised features in it, instead of spending 'a lot of time' into something that already exists?

*snrk*

Sorry, but it's a douche move. And while I like and respect rkahr a lot, I'll tell you guys the same thing I told him - this shouldn't even be a necessary product. If owners fixed their boards, they would be good to go. So in ya'll's case, IMHO, that just makes it sadder - spent 'all that' research and development time on something that is a bandaid.

Your knock-off is unquestionably copied. You copied the concept to reduce the load on the 5v line by driving the MPU with voltage derived from the 12v line. You copied the WPC Power Fix daughterbaord form factor that allows even the most minimally capable individual to successfully install one. You (poorly) copied the supply monitoring functionality of the Pro version.

Now you suggest you have no hard feelings and I should contact you to co-market - as if you are waiting for my contact. That's just wrong.

Here are some things you can't copy:

1. Integrity. Many products would be relatively simplistic to duplicate once we've been exposed to the concept. NVRAM, replacement LED 7 segment displays, and NuCore just to name a few. Simply put, the work of others is not for me to duplicate.

2. Honesty. From day one I have not marketed the WPC Power Fix as a "Reset Fix" board because there are some external perturbations where the rebalancing of loads across available supplies is not sufficient and additional work is required. To suggest otherwise is to lie to customers and you've put that lie in the name of your knock-off.

3. American made. Many folks know the WPC Power Fix daughterboard is manufactured here in the USA - surface mounting happens in Arizona, and through hole assembly and testing happens here in Virginia.

For you a step in the right direction would be to turn off your knock-off effort(s) and focus on the innovations you've created.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my Daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

Thread title should be changed to
Pinsound rips off Rob Kahr

This is a small community. I have met and purchased from Rob at shows. He is a stand up guy and totally up front about his boards.
He has worked hard and came up with an original idea, and the thought of someone stealing that idea, tweaking it a little, and calling it "original" is disgusting at best.
I, for one, will never make a pinsound purchase and think of them as "bad guys" now.
I hope we all continue to support Rob, even if someone rips him off and offers his product at a reduced price.

Man, that is disappointing to see. I already own two pinsound boards and was going to purchase an additional 3, but I refuse to support a company that steal designs from others... How pathetic.

Never mind who has created what... but I wonder why these kind of boards are needed. The original WPC driver board power supply is a good design, only requiring replacing aging electrolytic caps or rectifier bridges every 10-20 years or so. I prefer keeping my games in original condition, without any gimmicks.

Pinsound just lost another customer here.

What is it with this hobby and the mod makers constantly ripping each other off??? Is it really that hard to just come up with your own shit?

No it's laziness and wanting to cheap out by cutting corners and throwing others under the bus!

There is nothing wrong with taking a load off an already overloaded power supply and transferring that load to a power supply that has a very small load. That's really all this is about. It makes sense to do all of your W/B machines to promote longevity of your boards. The Idea is sound and good preventive maintenance.

Not every one has the time / skills to fix / track down the original issue.

Do a lot of people who install the PinSound board notice that they are in need of this bandaid board? Trying to figure out why they decided to add this also as one of the products they offer for sale.

No it’s just a $$ maker man. It’s all about the almighty $

What I hate is when people copy designs verbatim. Had one seller offering a direct copy of Gottlieb power supply board but deleted some of the niceties such as the caged, adjustable 5V. They even left all the reference designations the same as my design.

I put an easter egg into the design to see who copies it. Just to prove that their 'designer' was plagiarizing, they even left the easter egg in the original design. I have noticed they have removed the easter egg from the design on their current version. They must have finally gotten to the point where they were wondering 'why the heck do we need this?!?!.

Spot the easter egg! (Nope, no hints and I won't tell anybody if/when they find it)
But I will say it was not R6 and R8.
125-001_Small (resized).jpg

I'm not tellin...

Diagnose and fix your boards properly. They are good for a tool but should NOT be used as a fix all, catch all, end all solution to a resetting game - because it will resume that behavior down the road. Maybe days...maybe years. But it will happen again, and we are starting to see it on FB Pinball Repair Groups....

...and the logo on the product looks like a thief. LOL

Thief (resized).JPG

When Pinsound 1 is better than Pinsound 2 (Plus), it is really funny to read.

Slimeball move Nicolas and PinSound. What’s next, joining forces with Harry Houdini at Pinball Mod Copy, I mean Company?

Ive spoken to Nicolas at many shows and I have purchased probably a dozen PinSound boards.

Unless he stops carrying these knockoff reset boards, I won’t buy from them again.

Guess I’ll be trying these out, and I encourage others to do the same.

https://tiltaudio.com/

Just stumbled onto this thread and was very disappointed to hear the story. I also catch up with Rob at shows I attend and he's the real deal. Hard to believe the pinsound guys would do that to him (or anyone). Guess that's the end of me giving pinsound any more of my business.

I was researching different speaker/sound options for a few of my machines. I stumbled on the Pinsound website and found their products. Thought I'd check them out as a vendor before purchasing and found this thread.

Let's just say that my games won't be rocking Pinsound since they decided to knock off another vendor. What a dick move.

I also like the .ORG for the website address.

Yeah I found that weird as well. I thought that ".org" extensions were meant for non profits and ".com" was for businesses. Maybe its different in Europe.

That was the original intention back in the 80s when the TLD structure was first planned and implemented, but there are no registration restrictions on .org domains--anyone can register a .org domain. However, there are restrictions on .edu and .gov domains, as well as many country-based TLDs.

At one point, I think .org domains may have been cheaper than .com

So, I've created region-specific ordering pages for Europe and Australia where customers can pay in their native currency and can choose a very economical shipping option. Combined, this should take any financial incentive out of the decision of whether to get the genuine, proven WPC Power Fix versus either of the lower quality Chinese made knock-off products. See my complete announcement here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-for-europe-and-australia-from-kahrus-circuits#post-5459444

Kind of a side-show to the announcement is the new Self-Assembly Kit option for my daughterboard. It is intended for those who can do basic through-hole soldering and want to use their skills to get a somewhat more affordable option.

Thanks, everyone, for the strong showing of support in this thread!

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

I was about to order one from pinsound then i found this thread. Put my order in with rob this morning.

Wow, I thought the Pinsound guys would have been shamed enough, getting called out for blatantly stealing the Kahr idea/design, to stop selling their knock-off reset board. I was considering a Pinsound board for my Dr. Who, but hard pass now.

It was also on my list for Dr Who but I'm going to opt for an LED ColorDMD instead and just stay with the original sound board.

Much appreciated - I hope you saw it shipped today as well. Better product plus better service!

K's Arcade is selling the pinsound knockoff and pinball life is selling the homepin chinese knockoff. Both are reputable sellers in our community; I just wish they wouldn't list foreign-made knockoff products. I heard through pinball life the knockoffs aren't selling well.

If you happen to come to my booth at Allentown you will almost certainly see a sign that says "My pin sounds better with Tilt! Audio". I had it ready for Texas but we all know that couldn't happen this year.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my Pinball 2000 H+V Video Sync Combiner kit

Quick shipping, thanks! Received, installed and works great!

Who else sells power card like a pinsound +

Just installed pinball pro speakers and its better but its missing something

I just saw this and wanted to agree that it's really lame. The pinball market is small, and the work to develop and support electronics is tough for what is essentially just a hobbyist like Rob and myself.

I've had one well known company try to strong arm me into giving them my source to "partner" with them. When I said no, they said they were already working on their own design, and "good luck". This was probably about 5 years ago. Haha.

I will not be buying from these guys, either. I wish there was more I could do.

Count me in the crowd that somehow missed this over a year ago. Just saw the product on the marketplace and said WTF? Had to use search to see if somehow Rob Kahr had licensed his design to someone else. Nope… just another copier of a very unique product. It’s one thing to produce different designs of cupholders or other generic items that have been around for decades… but to copy this product (or as others have mentioned a WOZ red smoke witch replacement) is just a sleazy move.