The original game mix is mono, and the speakers are wired accordingly. The Wools mix is stereo, which you need to use the stereo harness and remove the old speaker wires to enable.
(Topic ID: 204128)
Linked Games
Lord of the Rings
Stern, 2003
Topic Gallery
Concord, NH
Quoted from adamross:Trying to dial in my Pinsound (2.0) with wool mix and the music seems much louder than voices. Any tips on adjusting?
Wool mix includes gain.txt files all over intended to manage volume differences.
I assume you can do the same.
Nicolas from Pinsound told me these commands do NOT affect the game's cpu.
Quoted from Reznnate:Wool mix includes gain.txt files all over intended to manage volume differences.
I assume you can do the same.
Nicolas from Pinsound told me these commands do NOT affect the game's cpu.
Do you happen to know what the name of the simple text file I would need to adjust music & voices
Fredrikstad
Quoted from adamross:Do you happen to know what the name of the simple text file I would need to adjust music & voices
Download pinsound studio, put your recorded game file(.psrec) into the playback folder in the pinsound studio folder, start pinsound studio, click the advanced editing tab, load your psrec file and from the preview window you can select each sound and adjust gain/level etc. Remember to click the save tab after adjusting gain. You will get a confirmation in the info list below afterwards.
So, in pinsound studio you can playback your game and listen to all the sounds while editing levels. Really great tool.
When done, just copy the audio folder to your USB drive.
2 weeks later
I doubt anyone else will be so stupid but wanted to pass this along...
It turns out, this mix sounds horrible if you have mono-wiring and pinsound set to stereo.
/sigh
Much better now.
Quoted from Reznnate:I'm doubt anyone else will be so stupid but wanted to pass this along...
It turns out, this mix sounds horrible if you have mono-wiring and pinsound set to stereo.
/sigh
Much better now.
I'm hoping that's why my mix is all over the place. How do you set Pinsound board to mono? (2.0)
Quoted from adamross:I'm hoping that's why my mix is all over the place. How do you set Pinsound board to mono? (2.0)
Never noticed it before (/sigh), but there is a switch/jumper on the Pinsound board.
That said, get the stereo cable. No question.
Quoted from Reznnate:Never noticed it before (/sigh), but there is a switch/jumper on the Pinsound board.
That said, get the stereo cable. No question.
Can't seem to find any stereo switch on pinsound 2.0 board.. just a switch to activate headphones
Guisborough
3 weeks later
Quoted from thewool:I should have mentioned when I made the mix it was using a total stereo setup, both the card switch and wiring/speakers.
Where exactly can you find the Stereo switch on the Pinsound 2.0 board? Can't seem to located one...
Added over 6 years ago: UPDATE: The new Pinsound + boards are built to be in stereo so they do not have a stereo switch.
Quoted from ryandimx:Also following to see what is needed to make it stereo
https://ksarcade.net/new-used-pinball-boards-parts/pinsound/pinsound-2-1-stereo-kit.html
Quoted from adamross:Where exactly can you find the Stereo switch on the Pinsound 2.0 board? Can't seem to located one...
Added yesterday: UPDATE: The new Pinsound + boards are built to be in stereo so they do not have a stereo switch.
If I have the Pinsound+ do I need the stereo cable?
Quoted from hawknole:If I have the Pinsound+ do I need the stereo cable?
As far as I know, yes you still need this cable. Whether you buy it, or make it yourself which many have done with ease apparently.
Quoted from adamross:As far as I know, yes you still need this cable. Whether you buy it, or make it yourself which many have done with ease apparently.
OK, thanks. I just got my board installed and I am double checking on the pinsound qa to make sure. I would rather not spend additional money for the harness if the pinsound+ board is already outputting in stereo. If not out of the box, I would consider a homebrew solution over the harness.
I am also asking the pinsound qa about my pinnovator board and if I can still use that to hook up my external subwoofer.
Lastly, I installed the Wool mix, which is what inspired me to get a pinsound+ board, so thanks OP. I am hearing the sounds also fluctuate in volume as noted above in other posts. Voice call outs seem low compared to some of the music, like The LOTR multiball music is much louder. I put the Wool zip file on my USB & let the pinsound board unzip it so I am guessing it might have done some “default” things with the sound. Next step there is to look at the USB drive and see what the board did and then possibly manipulate in the pinsound studio.
All good stuff & one of the reasons I enjoy this hobby, for the tinkering.
EDIT: In looking at the board some more and that Stereo 2.1 plug, I think I get it now. That 2.1 plug from the pinsound board is the sound output from the board and then it ties into the mono speaker wiring of the Whitestar, so the pinsound stereo kit is just the 2.1 stereo out from the pinsound board and is meant to be tied into the speakers directly. Then my pinnovators board won't work because it ties into the stock Whitestar mono plug. The homebrew solution appears to be cutting the wires of the 2.1 stereo plug before the mono adapter and then adding wire to make the speaker runs. Then my external sub could tie into the 2 rca out jacks on the pinsound+ board. And since I am currently mono that could explain my issue with the sound. Hmm, more to come...
I figured out the stereo connection by modifying the stock plug, no need for the extra harness. Note, because of the LED OCD board installed I had to turn the pinsound+ board sideways.
First picture below is the 2.1 stereo plug connected to the pinsound board.
Next picture is showing where I cut the other end of that same cable. I then put a piece of electrical tape to cover the cut wire. Note, I left the .1 wires as they will be connected as per original to the stock plug that runs to the speaker in the middle base of the cabinet.
The third picture shows a pair of the cut wires coming from the 2.1 plug soldered to one of the speakers in the panel after de-soldering the original wires. Then repeated the same for the other side speaker. Note that Stern kind of screws up the speaker wiring color and red/black is positive and red/white is negative.
After de-soldering the wires I unplugged the stock mono speaker panel connector & original speaker wire assembly and put it aside.
The fourth picture shows how the remaining two wires connect to the original connector. This is only using the yellow/white wire and yellow/black wire which runs to the aforementioned speaker in the middle base of the cabinet.
Stereo plug (resized).jpg
CN4 Cut (resized).jpg
speaker (resized).jpg
new connx (resized).jpg
Quoted from hawknole:I figured out the stereo connection by modifying the stock plug, no need for the extra harness. Note, because of the LED OCD board installed I had to turn the pinsound+ board sideways.
First picture below is the 2.1 stereo plug connected to the pinsound board.
Next picture is showing where I cut the other end of that same cable. I then put a piece of electrical tape to cover the cut wire. Note, I left the .1 wires as they will be connected as per original to the stock plug that runs to the speaker in the middle base of the cabinet.
The third picture shows a pair of the cut wires coming from the 2.1 plug soldered to one of the speakers in the panel after de-soldering the original wires. Then repeated the same for the other side speaker. Note that Stern kind of screws up the speaker wiring color and red/black is positive and red/white is negative.
After de-soldering the wires I unplugged the stock mono speaker panel connector & original speaker wire assembly and put it aside.
The fourth picture shows how the remaining two wires connect to the original connector. This is only using the yellow/white wire and yellow/black wire which runs to the aforementioned speaker in the middle base of the cabinet.
Fantastic work, thanks for sharing. Does the mix sound more balanced now?
Thanks. I really like the Wool Mix. I will say though that I still find the music loud. I am sure there are some additional adjustments I could make to the board to level sound.
Meanwhile, I have started my own mix. It will be less conventional than the Wool. I will post when I have a decent mix.
Quoted from hawknole:Thanks. I really like the Wool Mix. I will say though that I still find the music loud. I am sure there are some additional adjustments I could make to the board to level sound.
Meanwhile, I have started my own mix. It will be less conventional than the Wool. I will post when I have a decent mix.
I’ve spent lots of time fiddling with the board settings but still have unbalance in the mix. I’d go into pinball browser and adjust myself if I knew my way around it.
Quoted from thewool:Hi folks, have you tried tweaking the gain.txt file for those samples that you think are too loud?
I have not. How would I do that? (noob here)
Quoted from thewool:Hi folks, have you tried tweaking the gain.txt file for those samples that you think are too loud?
Hi Wool, I did try adding a gain.txt set to 20 to the legacy sounds to see if that would help but it still seemed hit or miss. What are the gain.txt settings relative to? For example, I see some of your files have a gain.txt with a value of 4 and others are set to 13, 15 or 20. What does that imply?
Also, why do some of the folders contain their own config.pinsound file? What is that used for and how did it get there? Thanks for the help and the mix Wool.
OK, I found this info in the TZ Pinsound thread: "You can also use the Gain.txt. 11 means it's boosted by 1. 10 is the standard setting. You can go up to 20."
Therefore, anything under 10 is reducing the gain. I added the gain.txt to the folder where my new music was and first tried it with a value of 3. Still a little too high. I turned it down so the gain.txt file is set to 1 and I am happy with the results. I was not aware that when you make changes you have to rezip up the folder and let the pinsound board once again uncompress it. Seems like it then sets the cache to read the files properly. I could not get the pinsound studio to complete that for me, so for now I am using the board with a new zip as I apply new changes.
I believe if ALL the sound files were equalized or normalized to the same level then the gain.txt settings would not be necessary. Still looking for a way to test that theory with a batch process in Audacity but so far no luck.
If there was a version out there of the original (but high quality) sounds that had all the levels balanced to eachother so I didn't have to mess with any settings, that would definitely be enough of a push to get me to drop the cash on my first pinsound board for my LOTR. I just don't want certain sounds or music tracks to blow people away or be too quiet. I would definitely help donate to someone willing to go through and level everything out so it was plug and play for everyone else.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:If there was a version out there of the original (but high quality) sounds that had all the levels balanced to eachother so I didn't have to mess with any settings, that would definitely be enough of a push to get me to drop the cash on my first pinsound board for my LOTR. I just don't want certain sounds or music tracks to blow people away or be too quiet. I would definitely help donate to someone willing to go through and level everything out so it was plug and play for everyone else.
Working on it. Researching audio batch normalization now. So in lieu of donations someone with expertise in this area would be greatly appreciated. Right now I am looking at a combination of audacity and ffmpeg to accomplish this batch normalization of all files. I really kind of view it like upgrading all the original files to a good level and then replacing them one by one with new files that fit and work. As a point of reference, the original LOTR has about 1300 sound files. While they cannot be upgraded to stereo quality, they can be upgraded to much better mono quality. My first tact was using an existing mix like The Wool or there is also one out there called LOTR OST, however, now I think it will be simpler for me to start with the original and go from there. Sorry OP for taking this thread down a different path, however, your mix was the inspiration for me to buy a pinsound board and head down this path, so kudos. Also, I am going to Pinfest 2018 on Friday and plan on talking with the Pinsound guys as I see they will have a booth. Still having fun tinkering.
Added over 6 years ago: Correction, 650 files, 650 folders, my mistake.
When I tried to modify and merge aspects of the Original, OST, and Wool mixes, the filenames didn't match. This is apparently unexpected and Nicolas (I think) offered to send me a matching mix (somehow) but I didn't hear back from him.
Quoted from Reznnate:When I tried to modify and merge aspects of the Original, OST, and Wool mixes, the filenames didn't match. This is apparently unexpected and Nicolas (I think) offered to send me a matching mix (somehow) but I didn't hear back from him.
With what method?
Quoted from hawknole:With what method?
Manual file copy. I really like what Wool has done as the basis but was trying to move some files from the OST and LEGACY mixes
Hi folks, please can the people who are having balancing issues with my mix drop me a pm? I'm determined to improve it but need more detail. I had a couple of longs games tonight and there are some minor tweaks to make, but nothing major. Thanks.
If your issues are with the legacy mix sorry I can't help.
Not that this helps yet, but i plan on picking up a LOTR machine in the next month and Pinsound will be my first project. I am an audio engineer on the side (a lot of experience with ProTools along with other recording/mixing/mastering suites) and software systems engineer by trade. I'll be more than happy to lend a hand at improving this mix and get levels straightened out.
Above all else at the core, I'm a huge Tolkien fan, so I can't wait to help improve the overall experience!
Is the process to compress/normalize the files prior to being uploaded to the Pinsound board or is it done within a pinsound specific program?
Additionally, could i start messing with the audio without having access to a pinsound board/program quite yet?
Quoted from WildRover:Not that this helps yet, but i plan on picking up a LOTR machine in the next month and Pinsound will be my first project. I am an audio engineer on the side (a lot of experience with ProTools along with other recording/mixing/mastering suites) and software systems engineer by trade. I'll be more than happy to lend a hand at improving this mix and get levels straightened out.
Above all else at the core, I'm a huge Tolkien fan, so I can't wait to help improve the overall experience!
This would be huge, as I've had to switch back to the original sound due to the mix.
2 months later
Hi all, just back to tweaking my mix hopefully to sort out some of these volume/gain issues. I was trying to create a group chat and include people that had provided comments but not sure if this is possible on Pinside. So far I have the following noted to fix:
- Pop bumper orc fx
- "Release the River" callout
- Shelob intro
There are also some files where there shouldn't be like config.pinsound. Will sort them out.
If you've noted any other specific things, or have ideas on stuff to add please drop me a pm, thanks.
Note: I've heard this mix is a bit of a nightmare for Pinsound Plus users, I'm using an original Pinsound so can only tweak for this, sorry.
1 month later
Sydney
Firstly a massive thanks to thewool for your amazing work on this mix. LOTR is one of my favorite games, and this with the Pinsound board takes it to the next level.
That said I’m experiencing a serious high volume issue with this and the other OST and original LOTR mixes on my game. Even on the lowest ‘1’ volume setting the audio is uncomfortably loud in most places. I’m using a Pinsound+ and I have a set of Flipper Fidelity 4ohm speakers and sub wired directly to the Pinsound+ via a 2.1 stereo adapter. The only way to reduce the sound level is to switch the far left knob mostly to the left, which really kills the quality of the sound, making the whole thing sound like it is coming out of an old transistor radio. One thing I did notice when installing the two stereo speakers was that the game originally had 8ohm speakers inside. As I’m connecting the speakers directly to the Pinsound+, I did not think that adding 4ohm speakers would make a difference.
I did not experience this issue when I had the same Pinsound+ board hooked up to my Williams Indy or Twilight Zone and I can’t quite figure out why I’m having this issue with my LOTR. If anybody can has any thoughts on how to resolve this, I will be very grateful.
Quoted from fridgejam:Firstly a massive thanks to thewool for your amazing work on this mix. LOTR is one of my favorite games, and this with the Pinsound board takes it to the next level.
That said I’m experiencing a serious high volume issue with this and the other OST and original LOTR mixes on my game. Even on the lowest ‘1’ volume setting the audio is uncomfortably loud in most places. I’m using a Pinsound+ board and I have a set of Flipper Fidelity 4ohm speakers and sub wired directly to the pin sound box via a 2.1 stereo adapter. The only way to reduce the sound level is to switch the far left knob mostly to the left, which really kills the quality of the sound, making the whole thing sound like it is coming out of an old transistor radio. One thing I did notice when installing the two stereo speakers was that the game originally had 8ohm speakers inside. As I’m connecting the speakers directly to the Pinsound board, I did not think that adding 4ohm speakers would make a difference.
I did not experience this issue when I had the same Pinsound+ board hooked up to my Williams Indy or Twilight Zone and I can’t quite figure out why I’m having this issue with my LOTR. If anybody can has any thoughts on how to resolve this, I will be very grateful.
Hi there. Thanks for the positive comments 
Regarding your extreme volume issues, this seems to be a Pinsound+ problem. The mix has some subtle balancing issues which I'm working on but they are limited to a number of samples. What you and others are describing is something far more widespread.
Really sorry but I developed the mix on an original Pinsound card so can't replicate your issue and so don't know how to correct it.
Quoted from fridgejam:That said I’m experiencing a serious high volume issue with this and the other OST and original LOTR mixes on my game. Even on the lowest ‘1’ volume setting the audio is uncomfortably loud in most places.
What's your setting for feature adjustment 26 (Allow volume effects)? It amplifies the volume at certain events and could be linked to this. I have Wool's mix too, but have disabled adjustment 26 and can't say I've experienced this issue (at least to the extent you have)
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:What's your setting for feature adjustment 26 (Allow volume effects)? It amplifies the volume at certain events and could be linked to this. I have Wool's mix too, but have disabled adjustment 26 and can't say I've experienced this issue (at least to the extent you have)
Wow, thank you, I hadn't noticed that setting. I tuned it off and it makes a huge difference!
Quoted from thewool:Hi there. Thanks for the positive comments
Regarding your extreme volume issues, this seems to be a Pinsound+ problem. The mix has some subtle balancing issues which I'm working on but they are limited to a number of samples. What you and others are describing is something far more widespread.
Really sorry but I developed the mix on an original Pinsound card so can't replicate your issue and so don't know how to correct it.
As others have mentioned, this mix played a big factor in my decision to originally purchase a pinsound+ board, and now another one for my other favorite game Indiana Jones. I believe it would be in Pinsound's interest to find a way to subsidize / sponsor / upgrade guys like you with the latest pinsound+ model, as I these skillful mixes are really helping to drive sales.
I also never noticed feature adjustment 26. I don't have yes/no as mentioned in the manual, but a range. It was set at 5, I changed it to 0 (off?) and lost certain sound fx like the wizard hit noises in Saruman vs. Gandalf. Am going to experiment a bit more tonight....
Quoted from thewool:I also never noticed feature adjustment 26. I don't have yes/no as mentioned in the manual, but a range. It was set at 5, I changed it to 0 (off?) and lost certain sound fx like the wizard hit noises in Saruman vs. Gandalf. Am going to experiment a bit more tonight....
edit: it seems the wizard hit fx is missing for a totally different reason, investigating...
Some interesting reading on this issue here!!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/pDo0KFn4nm4
There was a suggestion to replace the yes/no with a scale with input from Keith J.
Yes, setting feature adjustment 26 to zero equals to off. It's should be called effect volume or something, it's changing the maximum volume effect (default 5) and if you set it to 0 there will be no volume change from base volume
Btw, love the mix. Are you planning on releasing an update at some point in the future?
Quoted from Kkuoppamaki:Yes, setting feature adjustment 26 to zero equals to off. It's should be called effect volume or something, it's changing the maximum volume effect (default 5) and if you set it to 0 there will be no volume change from base volume
Btw, love the mix. Are you planning on releasing an update at some point in the future?
I've set mine to 0 just while I'm getting the previous balancing issues sorted. I never had any idea the game was adapting this so I'm glad this came up
Yes a v2 soon hopefully, it will mainly be corrections/fixes but with a few new sfx and pieces of music such as this beautiful track from The Hobbit:
One additional 'volume' parameter to consider is the latest firmware update. I'd SWEAR the volume balance changed (different behavior with gain commands?) .
I was very happy that they finally allowed the ability to switch mixes but perhaps there is a power/volume difference related to how they're supporting the new Pinsound boards?
Quoted from Reznnate:One additional 'volume' parameter to consider is the latest firmware update. I'd SWEAR the volume balance changed (different behavior with gain commands?) .
I was very happy that they finally allowed the ability to switch mixes but perhaps there is a power/volume difference related to how they're supporting the new Pinsound boards?
Ah ok, very good point... I will make sure I have the latest fw installed before I continue.
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