Fort Worth, TX
Does anyone have a Getaway psrec file they can make available to me?
(Topic ID: 116283)
Linked Games
Bram Stoker's Dracula
Williams, 1993-
Doctor Who
Bally, 1992
-
Guns N' Roses
Data East, 1994
-
Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure
Williams, 1993
-
Judge Dredd
Bally, 1993
-
Star Wars
Data East, 1992
-
The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard
Data East, 1994
-
Twilight Zone
Bally, 1993
There are more than 8 games linked to this topic.
Click here to show all linked games
Click here to show all linked games
Topic Gallery
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mr_tantrum.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
1 week later
Made some good progress on my Getaway reorchestration today. Finished mixing all the music after who knows how many hours of work. I hate to say it, but I think I'm done listening to ZZ top for a few days. Anyway, can't wait until TPF to pickup my PinSound!
1 week later
I wanted to report that my Getaway re-orchestration is coming along quite well. I don't actually have a PinSound yet, but that is what TPF is for next weekend! Anyway, I've re-mastered and normalized all the music using the ZZ Top discography along with a techno style cover of La Grange, and converted all original jingle and voice files to simulated stereo. I still have to convert all the sfx files, and I plan on replacing several of these with my own custom sounds. Turning out to be quite the project, but can't wait to get the chance to actually see/hear how my work translates to the actual pin.
Update: Just finished converting all SFX to stereo, now on to customizing. This is getting exciting!
I just got home from TPF with PinSound in hand, and I can't wait to get it installed along with tweeking my first reorchestration. I spent a lot of time talking to the PinSound guys about their product and my other hobby, cycling (they are French after all, so I had to get the scoop on la Tour).
Both the guys are great, very sharp, and lovers of pinball. Also, they both have real full time jobs in addition to this "hobby" of theirs. I really enjoyed meeting them, and playing several pins at the show with their card in them.
More to come soon regarding my experience with PinSound on my Getaway.
Okay, got my PinSound Board installed but have a few questions. I tried installing the Legacy sound file by placing the zip on my USB drive but it failed.
Reformatted, and now trying with my own mix. Heard a lady say something then music played for 30 seconds or so, and now beeping about every 15 seconds for the last 30 minutes.
Is this normal/proper behavior? Also, can I just copy the unzipoed files instead of the zip on the USB drive? I think I see it both ways in the online instructions.
Quoted from Luppin:The files in the zip folder are .ogg files. So the point is not about unzipping, but in converting from .ogg to .wav. The machine does it automatically the first time, but it takes around half hour per mix. Alternatively, you can use some program on the computer to do the conversion. Much faster. But you need the right program and you have to know how to set it so that it will convert ALL files in all folders and subfolders.
Note : if the lady's voice and beep sound is too loud during the automatic conversion process, simply lower the volume on the pots on the soundcard.
The files I was supplying are wav files in my re-orchestration and in my legacy mix. I tried also just creating the folder structure manually on the drive, but still is not working.
Working through issues with the guys, but I am still unclear on something. I have tried numerous times exactly as you outline, but still no success. When installing an orchestration the lady voice comes on with some nice background music then after a few seconds all I hear is beeps every few seconds. Should I be hearing music the whole time? Btw the Geataway extraction has an error, so says the lady. So I have tried other same Williams era machines and they just do as described above.
I have reinstalled twice, confirmed all connections, and used 2 different flash drives. Also reflashed firmware, and even tried different zip files from same era pin as my Getaway.
I'm also having other odd things going on that I've been working with Nicolas, but he's probably either still on a plane or in bed right now in France, so thought I would ask around here. Things like a blown fuse that I had to replace, speaker popping, etc. (I had none of these issues with my original board). I've been working on this thing all week since TPF, and can't tell you how anxious I am to get it working. Just wondering if I got a bad unit.
Also, there is another point of confusion for me on reorchestration. Do I need to convert my waves to ogg files (however, I do that) then zip and put on the stick? Or, since I already have wav files can I just zip them (doesn't work for me) or just put them on the drive in the structure outlined on the website (still does not work for me)?
1 week later
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Wait; the PinSound headphone jack doesn't mute the main speakers?
Yes it does/can. You have a switch on the PinSound board to either enable or disable this feature.
1 week later
FYI, I started a new PinSound topic: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/edit/3715636#ctop
Well, my custom Getaway PinSound orchestration is complete (made a few tweaks since this video and have uploaded to PinSound Community, but not sure how long before they post): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/getaway-club-dispatch-run-a-make-on-license-plate-kingpin/page/118#post-3722616
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Well, my custom Getaway PinSound orchestration is complete (made a few tweaks since this video and have uploaded to PinSound Community, but not sure how long before they post): https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/getaway-club-dispatch-run-a-make-on-license-plate-kingpin/page/118#post-3722616
FYI, just uploaded a v2 of my orchestration which uses ZZ Top's version of LaGrange instead of my original techno version. Install both on your USB drive and you can toggle between them whenever you like.
1 month later
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:This may be the best benefit of this board in a few short years when those a/v board start really going south.
That is when all of us who pulled out our working OEM boards for a PinSound rake in the cash! Alternatively, PinSound becomes even more popular.
1 week later
FYI, I just finished re-orchestrating my Getaway ZZ Top version (non-techno), and put vocals into many of the tracks. Also, switched out "Tush" (not one of my favorites) that I had assigned to a couple of events with "Tube Snake Boogie" which I think is much more upbeat and catchy.
Uploading to PinSound community forum as I type, so should be available for d/l soon. Everyone is welcome to try all 3 of my orchestrations which are on the site!
3 weeks later
FYI, I just posted an update to one of my mixes, so please download the new version if you are already using the all ZZ Top music with vocals "GetawayHS2_RockVocals_MrTantrum.zip". Edited a couple of tunes to hit the lyrics sooner (Supercharger & Enter Your Name). Was finding that I was either never getting to the lyrics or just hitting them when the event music would change during Supercharger mode (4th gear) and while entering initials after high score. Also, added slight gain to voices to make them standout a little better.
http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/file/217-getawayhs2_rockvocals_mrtantrum
Quoted from ptrav1:What am i doing wrong? Downloaded the file to the USB. Beep beep beep on start up, then a startup sound, then nothing.
Silly question, is your pin volume turned up using service switches? Also, which game and which orchesration?
Also, if the first time it could take an hour or more to unzip and convert the file. If you wait you'll hear some tones every 5-10 minutes which signify progress.
Quoted from volkdrive:Much quicker to convert the files with their program to the USB. Also loving the CFTBL files! So much better sound. Thanks to all who create files for this platform on their time.
You are absolutely correct. You can unzip the file then use their conversion tool to convert to wav files. Copy everything to USB and you are good to go. I know my explanation lacks detail but calling it a night, and the folder structure and conversion tool is documented on their site. If still having probs tomorrow, I can convert for you and give more detailed instruction.
It is also critical that your 5v supply is stable. You can test using meter on 5v aux on Pinsound.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:You will hear an actual voice say "conversion process . 10%" 20%, etc
If you don't hear that within a few minutes, something is wrong. You can't have anything else on the USB drive besides the folder(s) with your mix in it. You do need to unzip the file you downloaded, then put the contents in the USB. I don't think it will unzip for you
Actually, it will. Takes awhile, but it does the full job for you. Still much easier and far quicker to extract and convert on computer.
Here is an example of what the file structure looks like on my USB drive with 5 different orchestrations (the original and four custom variations):
1. Root folder with "audio" (where all mixes go in sub folders), ".mix" this is created by PinSound for the current selected mix, and "config.ini"
1.jpg
2. Within the audio folder, each mix has it's own folder
2.jpg
3. Within each mix folder you have the sub folders for the sound categories
3.jpg
4. Within each category you have the individual sound folders
4.jpg
5. Within each sound folder you have the individual WAV sound file(s) - you can have more than one and they will be played randomly for that event
5.jpg
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Note that some games already play different sounds for an event, but the game will expect separate folders for these sounds; follow the existing structure if you replace any sounds
Yes, ALWAYS follow default/original structure and include every numbered sound folder in your mixes with at least one sound file in them. My point was that you can add more variety with custom music and callouts by placing multiple variations of sound files in a given event folder.
Quoted from hawkmoon:I put one in my TAFG,Uploaded to my MAC,30 minutes,downloaded to USB stick 25 min.loaded in pin,30 min.done!Im disapointed in their Headphone attachment though!! Sounds great with upgraded FF speakers!
I use the headphones on a regular basis, and sound is great.
Quoted from HighProtein:Was there a set of redone audio for Royal Rumble?
Nobody has posted one as of yet: http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/71-royal-rumble
Looks like you have an opportunity to channel your creative juices.
Just finished and in process of uploading my latest PinSound orchestration for the Getaway to PinSound Community. This one is all ZZ Top with song vocals, and all new professionally recorded call outs (i.e. voice tracks). The new high quality voices add a lot to the overall game experience, so download when the file is approved and enjoy!
Also, adding a version with new call-outs that uses techno La Granja as main theme song.
Just posted another that is all U2 tunes.
http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/22-getaway
All of my new Getaway PinSound orchestrations were just approved: http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/22-getaway
Quoted from hawkmoon:Mr-Tantrum;Yes I agree,the sound from headphones is fabulous,I also just use them!!
What is your disappointment in the headphone attachment?
FYI, just posted another Getaway orchestration. This time, all driving themed music from various artists (no ZZ Top in this one). Awaiting approval, but should be available soon.
FYI, my new mixed artist orchestration for Getaway is now available for download on PinSound community: http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/22-getaway
Quoted from EricHadley:Anyone know how to reach the Pinsound people? I've tried their contact us on their website and never hear back. I ordered 5 Pinsound boards, but the 2 for my Whitestar machines are missing the Whitestar adapters :-/
Edit: Pinsound saw this post and immediately contacted me. Since I had ordered 5 Pinsound boards and 5 sets of speakers there was so much stuff I missed seeing that I did indeed receive the Whitestar adapters. All is well! I can't wait to install these!
I've had nothing but great response from Nicholas and the gang. However, you must realize this is not their full time gig (they are hobbyists with real jobs too), so response my not be immediate. IMHO, PinSound is the single best upgrade you can add to a pin as it completely changes/elevates the game play experience with custom orchestrations.
On a side note, I just saw another used PinSound that sold here (2nd one in the last month or so). Both cases are users who bought them, installed them, then were totally surprised that they magically didn't come with some uber version of a sound mix for their specific pin.
PinSound is an incredible product, and people shouldn't give up on it so easily. In one case, the guy wasn't even aware he could download a custom mix that was posted on PinSound Community. In the other, there was not custom mix but instead of either working on one himself or encouraging someone in his specific pin thread to help, he just gave up. People really don't know what they are missing by giving up so soon. We need to urge PinSound owners to be more collaborative with their orchestrations. If you've put together an orchestration, then share it on pinsound-community.org. If you are in the boat of having purchased a PinSound board, but don't know where to start then post to the forum or even PM me. I'm happy to share what knowledge and experience I have with others (not that I'm a pro or anything), but I do understand the product and have built several orchestrations for The Getaway (if I only owned more pins then I assure you there would be more custom orchestrations from me).
Anyway, just makes me a little sad when people give up on such a great experience and add-on to their pin.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:FYI, my new mixed artist orchestration for Getaway is now available for download on PinSound community: http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/22-getaway
FYI, posting an updated file (after playing several times, wanted to adjust the lane and main theme arrangements). I will PM site admin, so should be available soon.
Quoted from Bendit:Oh nice. How do I upgrade the firmware?
2 weeks later
My latest Getaway PinSound mix is now available for download. I made a few corrections/mods to the orchestration that includes car/driving themed tracks from various artist and custom call-outs.
Quoted from Genetic2000:Pinsound community registration not working after three days of trying? System won't send me a confirmation e-mail. It's not in my spam or junk folders. Tried several times this weekend, just keeps says "e-mail sent". I'm trying to download slamtilts' ver.2 TAF but no joy.
Were you able to get this? If not, you can PM me as well.
2 weeks later
Quoted from OldSchoolBlood:I am new to pinsound, but am thinking about adding one to WH20 and TFTC. Are their any good reorchestrations available for these games? On youtube I could only find one for TFTC, but without Danny Elfman's theme song was huge turn off / disconnect from the theme. I heard something about the original voice actor of Wet Willy rerecording speech. Did that ever happen? That would be awesome!
Go to pinsound community forum, create an account, and then you can download any available orchestrations. From there, you will need to have someone provide you with a game recording and you can play back on your PC to get an idea of the orchestration.
1 week later
Not that I am the ultimate PinSound guru, but I have started this guide (still much to be added).
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound#post-3715636
Quoted from jamescardona:tantrum, I was working on getaway also. Let me know if you want to pool our resources. I tried to PM you but pinside didn't cooperate.
I've actually already created 7 different versions for The Getaway. All available here for download: http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/22-getaway
You are welcome to "borrow" anything from what I've done for your own custom orchestration. Just commit to posting it to the community site and share with others. What kind of theme do you have in mind?
3 months later
Quoted from Marcdaddy:Guys I cant iron down that horrible humming that is common in most Data East pins, if I get the Pinsound, new speakers and new wires I wonder if this would solve my Jurassic park issues I'm having.
Can't speak first hand, but I have a friend that has a DE JP and previously had all kinds of noise. He did different things to insulate his boards and I know he put a secondary power source in to drive PinSound and some other stuff. I bet if you search through and of the DE threads (Jurassic Park is what comes to mind) you may find some answers.
1 week later
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:Has any one ordered a Pinsound kit directly from France lately? How long has it been taking to ship to the United States? I am worried my shipment is stuck in customs, because my tracking has not updated since January 4th.
When I ordered mine, it was stuck in customs for almost two weeks. Have you tried contacting Arcadeshop (http://www.arcadeshop.com)? Don't just go by website, but give the guy a call.
Quoted from FlippyD:Ordered speakers and a pinsound kit from France a few months ago and it arrived without much delay.
Now I just have to find the time to do the board work on LOTR!
If anyone is still on the fence about buying PinSound I would jump right in. It will crank your enthusiasm for an old game to 11.
I like to tell people that I've never tried crack before, but I don't see how it could be even half as addicting as PinSound!
For those of you new to PinSound, I encourage you to take a look at my thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:Well the tracking finally updated on my pinsound board. It is finally on United States soil, and scheduled for delivery on Monday. That will put it just about three weeks from the date I ordered it to it arriving at my door.
Doesn't sound too bad to me from rural France to your front door in the West Coast, USA. Just imagine what worldwide shipping times were like 20-30-50 years ago. Too bad, but I think that Amazon Prime has kind of spoiled us all as it pertains to shipment immediate gratification.
I'm positive you will find it is well worth the wait. Have you already downloaded an orchestration from the pinsound forum (if one exists for your pin)? You can do it ahead of time and go ahead and extract/convert the files so they are ready to write on the USB stick w/o any waiting. Just take a look at my guide that I reference above, and I layout everything you need to do.
1 week later
Just posted my latest Getaway orchestration to Pinsound forum (release approval TBD). This time all Nirvana. 
Quoted from adamross:Does anyone have a spare set of Pinsound mounting brackets they'd like to sell me?
What exactly are you referring to (pic or link)? Also, what machine platform will the PinSound be going in? I don't know if I have what you are looking for, but happy to look when I get home tonight as long as I can figure out exactly what you need.
Quoted from adamross:Installing a PS board on a STTNG and need the mounting brackets, reference photo attached. They include these with every board, but I acquired this from a friend who didn't have them.
Yes, these are the extensions for fitting PinSound into various platforms (I know Data East requires them as they were included with a JP install I helped a friend with). Previously, when ordering PinSound you would designate platform so they new to include or not include the extra pieces. I don't know if I have them or not since my platform didn't require them, but I'll check tonight when I get home as I saved everything and packed it away in the original box.
PS - I'm not giving you my PinSound keychain! 
Quoted from delt31:Has the shaker been released yet?
I think the coding is there for your own (I don't have one), but that the official has not yet been released. I think I remember reading something to that affect in the regular PinSound thread recently.
I reference how to do ducking and gain in my guide: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound
Quoted from adamross:Thanks very much for checking tho...
Have you emailed the PinSound guys? I'm sure they would sell you what you need. Just let them know you are moving your PinSound from one platform to another (who cares why).
Quoted from adamross:Few days ago, no response.
Here is the link, not sure what shipping is. https://www.pinsound.org/shop/index.php?id_product=28&controller=product&id_lang=1
FYI, the two brothers created this product on the side as they are pinball enthusiast from France (hardware & software engineering). They also have full time gigs, so sometimes it may take a few days for communications. Also, not sure if/what pinball festivals are in Cali, but they have come to TPF (Texas) the last few years with lots of product so that saves on shipping if the timing is right.
Quoted from adamross:I don't have any experience with Pinsound Studio, I'm just a casual hobbyist. Although not opposed to learning. But I only have a Mac and unless I'm mistaken it's only available for PC?
Don't need studio for this. You can manually trial and error just be adding/editing config files.
2 months later
Just posted my latest (9th) Getaway PinSound orchestration to the community (awaiting approval before it is available for download). All instrumental cover songs on this one.
http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/22-getaway
Quoted from JediPimp:Hey how do people typically set up custom mixes (I.e. Full re-orchestrations of music, sfx And voices) for Pinsound mixes? I've been trying to get someone to make a Judge Dredd custom mix. I've done one on my own (music only) but I don't have the capability to record new voices or sfx.
I'm confused by your question since it seems like you already know the answer. They do it the same way you have done your music tracks, and with custom voice & sfx. The ones I have changed used either professional voice actors and/or recordings I clipped from internet sources.
2 months later
Quoted from Damonator:Wha what? You can have an intro sound instead of the blip, blip, blip, blip?
You still get some of the beeps, but on my Getaway I have the sound of a Lambo Diablo starting, revving, peeling out, and then accelerating off into the distance.
Quoted from Goalie:I’m no audiophile, so the benefits of the board were a bit lost on me, i never saw much content available either unless you have a few particular machines, and yeah the bootup time is anoying to me, so out it goes.
On the 90's pins you don't have to be an audiophile to appreciate true stereo CD quality sound versus mono low bit depth midi. If you couldn't tell the difference then my assumption is that you didn't have a quality custom orchestration to compare to the original. If anyone expects to do a one for one replacement of their sound card with a PinSound and it magically make a sound difference, you are sadly mistaken. To begin with, you will need a custom orchestration with new music/sounds, possibly rewire your speakers for stereo, and potentially replace you speakers with ones with better frequency range and bass. When you do it right, it is night and day and can never go back to the original sound.
Quoted from DML1001:I just put a pinsound board in my Getaway, and it's kind of annoying me... I'm thinking about taking it out.
I tried several of the custom orchestrations, but they all got on my nerves. I couldn't stand the ones with custom callouts, and the rest all had quirks that irritated me. For example, the ones with custom music all eliminated things like the multiball intro sound sequence.
So, I tried loading the 'default' sound configuration on. Only problem is, it's not quite right. There are a few sounds that don't match the originals, such as the sound that plays when the car pulls up to 'dount heaven' on the 2nd lock.
The biggest annoyance though is there is some weird lowering of the music when certain sounds play. It's hard to tell exactly what it is, but it is definitely different than before. Most sounds don't interrupt the music, but some (seemingly arbitrary) ones cause the music volume to drop to almost zero until the sound finishes playing. This is really bothering me, and I'm considering yanking the board over it.
I will say that the board itself seems well built though. I like the status LEDs, and it was easy to install and update. I just wish the original sound package was a better replication of the original sondtrack.
As the creator of most of the custom Getaway orchestrations available for download on the pinsound community forums, let me see if I can respond in an informative way to some of your observations.
1) I just put a pinsound board in my Getaway, and it's kind of annoying me... I'm thinking about taking it out. I tried several of the custom orchestrations, but they all got on my nerves.
- Well, that's the beauty (and the challenge) of PinSound. It is a hardware platform where the pin community is left to create their own orchestrations to their liking. I'm not offended at all if you don't like any of my orchestrations. These are custom packages that I created and share with the community to either use them or not. Everyone is more than welcome to learn the technology and create their own orchestrations to their own liking. I also realize that the vast majority of people don't have the ability, desire, or time to do such a thing. If this is your case, then your options are somewhat limited to either use an orchestration someone else has made, alter an orchestration that someone else has made to your liking, utilize the original sound track "as is" with PinSound, or go back to the original sound board.
2) For example, the ones with custom music all eliminated things like the multiball intro sound sequence.
So, I tried loading the 'default' sound configuration on. Only problem is, it's not quite right. There are a few sounds that don't match the originals, such as the sound that plays when the car pulls up to 'dount heaven' on the 2nd lock.
- It is not a simple or quick thing to decode and reverse engineer the original sound track . . . it is actually quite the process. I have not attempted this myself, but relied upon another who came before me, and you are right in that there are definitely a few missing elements. Additionally, there are a number of elements that exist in the orchestration that are never used - just latent sounds, weird. My assumption is that if someone took the time to re-decode the original sound files that these missing sound event triggers might be recovered, and then these could be re-introduced to the PinSound orchestrations.
3) The biggest annoyance though is there is some weird lowering of the music when certain sounds play. It's hard to tell exactly what it is, but it is definitely different than before. Most sounds don't interrupt the music, but some (seemingly arbitrary) ones cause the music volume to drop to almost zero until the sound finishes playing. This is really bothering me, and I'm considering yanking the board over it.
- My orchestrations were all designed based upon my pin which has a speaker replacement with matching backbox speakers, rewired to support stereo instead of the default mono configuration, and my personal soundboard settings (bass, treble, balance, fade, etc.) Also, while apparently more pronounced on your setup, it is by design that the music fades during some of the callouts in order to understand them. All of this is adjustable either on a global or individual callout level in the PinSound orchestration using config files (see my PinSound thread here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound)
4) I will say that the board itself seems well built though. I like the status LEDs, and it was easy to install and update. I just wish the original sound package was a better replication of the original sondtrack.
- So, I have a few things to say about this. First, if your desire is to remain true to the original orchestration with midi music, mono callouts, etc. (nothing wrong with that at all), then PinSound will do nothing for you. The hardware will not make the music or callouts sound any better. However, if you wish to upgrade to CD quality music, hi quality stereo callouts, etc. then PinSound is a viable add-on for you. Even so, it is not designed to be a plug and play experience. The hardware does not do anything to convert the original audio, as all of this must be done by pinball owners who have the desire to teach themselves how, the skill to pull it off, and the generosity to share their work with others. In many games, including the Getaway, even with the PinSound and a customized orchestration you will still not realize the full benefit until you upgrade the original speakers and rewire them to support stereo sound.
Overall, I hope that what I have written proves to be informative, as my intent is in no way to criticize anyone for their opinions on PinSound. Personally, I love the invention and appreciate what they guys have done with improving the pinball experience for multitudes of people such as myself. I also fully realize that it is not for everyone. I understand that pinball purists will not appreciate or care for PinSound in general. Others, for whatever reason, may not fully realize what the capabilities of the board are until they buy one and install it. Then they are faced with the reality of leveraging the work of others in the community, or spending countless hours figuring out how to make their own orchestrations, and investing the time and effort to actually do so.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:His mix was never intended to be on the pinsound community; someone uploaded it without his permission. It was an old mix anyway - just PM him and send him a couple bucks for his trouble. It is a really awesome mix, immersive I would say
Same goes for his Jurassic Park.
Quoted from DML1001:So, hope you weren't offended by my comments. To be clear, I actually like a lot of things about the other orchestrations you published, but I have some OCD tendencies and it really irritates me if small things change in ways I don't like. Even though I like a lot of the other music packages better in general, the little quirks and differences vs the original sounds irritate me too much. The change that really messes up the experience for me on my particular speakers is the start of multiball. The new music begins playing immediately, and its almost impossible to hear the police officer dialog that plays. I also really miss the adrenaline pumping SFX during the sequence, and the police sirens that used to go off as the balls are released from the lock.
Anyway, everyone's preferences will be different here. I'm sure a lot of people like the changes better.
What I was really hoping for with this board was to be able to keep the original sounds/callouts completely in tact, but get upgraded music. Unfortunately, since the original sound package isn't entirely accurate, I can't just use that as a starting point and add my own music (furthermore, I have no idea how to use the software to edit anything either).
Regarding the 'ducking', what bothers me is that it seems fairly arbitrary when the music lowers and when it doesn't. One of the more noticeable places where this is a problem for me is after the game ends and the match animation plays. The game over music is playing, but for some reason when the SFX plays as the car drives by to reveal the match number, the music volume drops to near zero. This is really jarring since the car sound isn't very loud or important, and the music dropping out sounds like a malfunction. However, when most other car sounds play in game, the music is left alone. As such, I'm not sure whats special about this sound and why it drops the music out.
I guess I will try adding that .ini file to the flash drive. What settings for 'ducking' would match the behavior of the original board? I'd like things to sound as close to original as possible in that regard.
Right now, I'm leaning toward going back to the original sound board unless I can at least get the ducking to stop. I really miss some of the missing original sounds too. I may sell the pinsound board, or I might just hang onto it in case the sound board fails on any of my WPC games.
Thanks for your post. There was a lot of interesting information in here.
Oh, no offense at all. Personally, I've got mine tweaked with the sound and callouts are perfect in my setup. I've not taken the time to do it, but at some point I might attempt to extract the originals myself to see if I can capture more than what my source file has in it (whoever originally posted the default orchestration). If I ever do, I can easily create an orchestration with all original callouts and FX, but just change the music. Maybe if someone else wants to step up to the plate, we could expedite the process?
Quoted from Hazzard:If you are missing sounds, open the project in pinsound studio. It will give you a list of missing sounds with corresponding numbers after. These numbers represent a folder on the usb drive for each sound missing. When I was remaking the Sega Frankenstein audio I had the same issues, missing sounds that I knew was supposed to be there. I contacted pinsound via Facebook messenger, sent them the list of missing files, and they sent me a list of foldernames to put the missing sounds in.
Now, you can't just create a folder with the missing file number yourself and put it on the corresponding category folder. That won't work. They have some sort of algorithm to define the actual foldernames. I guess it a secret of the trade.
You must decode the sound structure from the original sound ROM files (something which I have read about, but not performed myself).
Quoted from JediPimp:Hi there, recovering Pinsound addict here lol I went through all of this 2 years ago.
I have a JD with a Pinsound board and Pinsound Speakers with 2.1 harness. I did download the original legacy files and play it only to notice that a few sounds were in fact missing. In order to fix this, you need to find a .psrec file of your game, in this case the Getaway. You can either find a copy online or create your own in your Pinsound USB while playing a game (to do this go to the config.ini and change psrec = true to Enable PSREC recording). Then load the .psrec file in Pinsound Studio and it will tell you exactly which sounds are missing such as "[Info] missing : 156 0x9c". In this example it is telling you that sound 156 is missing.
Then download the program called M1. Its an app used to play audio from Arcade and Pinball ROMS. You need to download the Getaway ROM, the whole game ROM not the sound ROMs, from IPDB. Play the ROM with M1 and you can then play all the sounds in order. Find the missing sound 156 and record it using a program Audacity. Then you can put the sound in the appropriate folder in the Pinsound files. voila thats it.
The other problem i found with the Legacy files is that sometimes they would put a sound in the wrong folder. I.e. if they put a SFX sound in a Jingle folder it can really change the way the sounds originally played. You can also use this to your advantage if you want to change the way certain audio and sounds interact with each other.
Make sure to read this for further information (its no longer on the Pinsound page so I had to find an archived version): https://web.archive.org/web/20160621012306/http://www.pinsound.org:80/sound-files-usage/
This information is CRUCIAL to understanding how the audio files and Pinsound works.
Note: you cannot add numbers to the folders. Meaning you cannot add sounds, only take away or replace sounds to games. Its because of the coding.
Good luck!
When using M1 with Getaway L-2 ROM from IPDB, a error is returned "Unknown/unsupported game get_l2.u6"
Actually, just figured out only L5 is supported. Downloaded M1 Bridge, and now I can play through the sounds.
Okay, so I got M1 installed & the M1 Bridge add-on along with associated files. Downloaded Getaway L5 (only version compatible) and went through every single sound (callouts excluded, as M1 doesn't seem to pull them out - or at least I don't know how). Anyway, not a single sound is missing from my source orchestration that I utilized as the basis for all of my customizations.
I'd be interested in understanding from those who have missing sounds if they are using L5 or some other ROM version. Personally, I run L2 in my Getaway but it seems like the L5 mapping still works. I know it is difficult to convey which sounds are missing, but if I could get some more clarity, maybe we can determine if they truly are missing or if they are there but not referencing correctly or something.
Also, one of my psrec files did show 5 missing sounds (all in a row). I verified and do not have them. However, when I played the sounds in M1 Bridge, those sound values are actually empty (i.e. no audio for those designated numbers).
1 week later
Quoted from unlockpinball:I purchased this drive and it does not work. Sound is dead on my AF. Had to put back the original slow, delayed sound USB drive that came with the board.
Can’t remember off the top of my head, bud did you reformat the drive with correct FAT format? I’ve used multiple sizes and brands when testing, and they all worked for me.
4 months later
Quoted from paynemic:Ok. I just remembered something that is likely important. I played only one game with the sound back up. Flippers seemed a little weak and my left flipper stopped activating during a multi ball. For just a second or two. Just a few flips. It made no sound or attempt at flipping. Then it went back to normal. That’s another reason I’m thinking i have a power problem..
Put a meter on the 5V DC output (J502 connector) on the Pinsound and see what you are getting. If not 5+ V then you definitely have a power issue. I had a board at one time that was only putting out 1.75V, I replaced the +5V / 500mA fast blow fuse and that got me up to the 5V where it should have been.
Of course, if you have having other pin problems, you need to measure your input side to make sure the correct voltage is making it to the Pinsound board in the first place.
2 weeks later
Quoted from wdpvideo:I'm working with the pin sound card and it seems like every time I do, I ask myself why? The website has gotten a little bit better but it's still a pain in the butt. I need some help because I'm not quite sure what's going wrong. The game boots up and you can hear The audio, and it never says "missing audio files". I want you start again there's no audio other than the booting of the audio. So I know the speakers are working and obviously it's hooked up properly or you wouldn't hear anything. Can someone take a look at these files and see what I'm doing wrong? Yes I know they look like Mac files but they are PC files. I just use these images so that I could upload them from my Mac onto pinside.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Have you checked out my guide?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound
Quoted from NPO:That deserves MANY more thumbs-ups. Well done!
Thanks. Just felt like someone needed to put it altogether, so I would share what I learned.
Quoted from wdpvideo:I'm working with the pin sound card and it seems like every time I do, I ask myself why? The website has gotten a little bit better but it's still a pain in the butt. I need some help because I'm not quite sure what's going wrong. The game boots up and you can hear The audio, and it never says "missing audio files". I want you start again there's no audio other than the booting of the audio. So I know the speakers are working and obviously it's hooked up properly or you wouldn't hear anything. Can someone take a look at these files and see what I'm doing wrong? Yes I know they look like Mac files but they are PC files. I just use these images so that I could upload them from my Mac onto pinside.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
PM Sent. Please follow the instructions I provided and let me know how it goes.
When done your USB drive should be arranged as attached pics. From the root of the USB drive, you should only have 1 file - config.ini and one folder - audio. From there, the arrangement should be as listed in the second pic. All of this will be automatic if you just unzip the file I linked you to.
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
PS: I can't believe I'm helping a Longhorn - sincerely, die-hard Sooner fan
Quoted from hawkmoon:Mr-Tantrum,maybe you could help me=I have a TAFG and have a pin sound in it! But when the mode goes to "Showtime" my FF speakers cut out!!!Are they tweeking out because there's to much power,or not enough power????Thanks for reading!!!!
I'm definitely not a PinSound hardware expert, so I would have a few questions regarding overall sound.
1) Does it start up normally and play sound fine until the event?
2) What orchestration are you utilizing (the default one or a custom one)?
3) If you have only tried with a single orchestration, can you try another to see what happens?
4) If you have more than one orchestration installed does it happen on all of them at the same event or do different orchestrations react differently?
5) What happens if you replace that sound on your USB with a different (doesn't matter what just to test)?
Default Orchestration: https://www.pinsound.org/pinballs/wpc-alpha-dmd/the-addams-family
Custom Orchestrations: http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/21-the-addams-family
1 week later
Quoted from NPO:I'd contact fellow pinsider Mr_Tantrum. He seems to know PinSound pretty well and recently really helped a fellow member out. Maybe he would be willing to help you too?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinsound-mix-install-problems
I've already been working with him, and we got things up and running after a couple of hours.
I've posted this multiple times, and I don't know that the two bros (which I have met and talked to in person - great guys who also have full-time real jobs) do a good enough job explaining it. To begin with, the PinSound is an awesome creative product that transforms gameplay experience given the correct expectation. If all you want to replace your stock soundcard with a PinSound using the stock sounds and expect anything different that what you heard before, then you will be disappointed. Also, if you expect a simple plug and play experience, you will be disappointed.
There are multiple factors that must be considered and addressed to get the most out of your PinSound, including the following:
1) How is your pin wired for sound? Mono, simulated stereo, true stereo, etc.? I had to rewire mine from mono to stereo to get enhance the experience.
2) What speakers are you using? The same old crappy 25+ year old ones with low frequency response and bass that are probably cracked or have you spent money (doesn't even take much) on new/better backbox speakers and cabinet woofer?
3) Does your pin have a user created custom orchestration or are you just installing the default one that was created in 8 bit mono (or worse) and uses MIDI music? If you buy a new stereo and the best set of speakers you can but run low quality audio through it, the result is still low quality audio.
I could go on and on, but the main point is that the PinSound is a collaboration between the inventors, the enthusiasts, and the end-user. They provide the hardware platform to do great things, and the community develops customized orchestrations using high quality audio, custom call-outs, music/quotes from which the pins are themed, voice actors to redo sounds, etc. This work takes hours/weeks/months and lots of skill to do it well. Finally, the onus is on the end user. They need to understand what they are getting into, what the PinSound is and what it is not, and they must make whatever modifications/updates to their pin to take full advantage of it.
There is technical aptitude required even for setting up the orchestrations correctly on the USB drive (must follow exact format). I don't work for or represent PinSound in any form or fashion. I'm just a hobbyist who took the bull by the horns when deciding to add one to my Getaway. Since then, I've learned a ton (mostly self taught), and do my best to help others arrive to the same experience. I can't support everyone all of the time, but when I have the opportunity I'm happy to do so.
Quoted from NPO:Now now. We dont know his situation. We know he is frustrated, but we dont know why.
I was assuming his "bullcrap" comment was a play on wdpvideo's UT Bevo avatar - but maybe not.
Quoted from Jarbyjibbo:One thing I would like if I had a wish, is the ability to store multiple mixes on the board and switch to them without accessing the backbox. My lineup is very tight spacing wise and it's a pain to access it.
What is the orchestration change process with LOTR? With the Williams games, you just used the service switches inside the coin door. Take the volume down to 0, press volume down once more and you're off to the next mix on the drive (I have like 8 different mixes on my Getaway right now).
Quoted from wdpvideo:I am not the only who feels this way. I know plenty of people who have pulled them out of thier games.
For many reasons they just haven’t posted. I reached out and a great pinsider who knows his pinsound cards well
tried to help and even formatted the file and I loaded it with no luck. I thought I had it fixed but then when I started looking closer I was just getting sound from the original audio visual board From CV. I’m not happy with their product for many reasons. Their customer support sucks as they won’t answer emails. Then if they do you by chance which is slim, they act like you’re an idiot. I get that not everyone gets it. But when I can strip it came completely dow then if they do by chance which is slim, they act like you’re an idiot. I get that not everyone gets it. But when I can strip a game Completely down and restore it all the way from the wood completely down and restore it all the way from the wood and decals, to the playfield. I have a pretty good grasp of how it works. Why do I need to login to multiple sites just to get a file? And why are you posting files instead of just putting out the I have a pretty good grasp of how it works. Why do I need to login to multiple sites just to get a file? And why are you posting files instead of just putting up a wave .wav file the board needs to begin with. I’m not interested in taking it into this program and that program in this program in that program just to convert a file that should already be on the website. I spend hours just making sure the file is correct. Which is what I did with the other day. By the way which was so great helping me. More than I can say for tech-support. Just let me login get the file I need and get out. Don’t make it sound like a plug and play, when that’s really not the case. I can hear all the dings in dong and the loud unnecessary noises it makes just a boot up, USB is in place. So it sees the files but no audio plays. It can recognize when you pulled a USB out. USB is missing. So the audio is there but it won’t play the file. And I think the pinsider who help me out new more than most on here. Maybe the second board is better than the first series but the second series sucks.
Hey WP, all of your points are valid and go with the points I am trying to make. I know of multiple Pinsound buyers that ended up giving up on the board based on their experiences but countless others who have had great success. I think it all goes back to my original point of understanding fully the expectations of what it can deliver and what is required on the part of the end user to get it to work in a multitude of machines.
Bottom line is that often it is not simple, nor is a streamlined process, and it can be vary challenging in many situation (I assure you that I had my own round of complications for a couple of months and went through two boards before things were finally right with me). Personally, Pinsound has changed my game playing experience, but then again I've been all-in and personally developed and shared 9 different Getaway orchestrations with new music themes and even professional voice actor call-outs. Not everyone is as technical/nerdy/geeky/obsessive/whatever other adjective you want to use here as I am, but I'm thrilled with Pinsound and how they have developed over the last few years. Remember, these guys are hobbyist pinball dudes from France, and this is not their real full-time job. The engineered and created the hardware/software out of their love for pinball and brought what they have to the community. I might think differently about the entire situation if this was some major pinball supplier or electronics company bringing this product to market, but given the who, why, and how, I tend to have more patience and understanding. I realize your experience is different, and I empathize with that, but hopefully this has still been a learning experience and others who are considering purchasing a Pinsound can gain insight from our interactions.
Quoted from Bendit:Yeah but the instructions are clear?
The ZIP file goes onto the USB stick, then the pinsound hardware will extract it during the first boot. I let mine run overnight.
Yes, or you can manually extract the files and copy them to the USB drive on your computer, and be up and running in just a couple of minutes instead of hours. This is my preferred methodology.
Quoted from NPO:All right, so I got to play a couple games of BSD with pinsider hazzard's remix, which was absolutely outstanding. What I have to say really isn't a review; it's more of my experience.
So the unit comes in its own box directly from France (all distributors I knew of state-side were sold out) with just some plastic covering to get it in the mail. Hey, whatever saves me shipping money - I'm ok with that!
So here is what it looks like when you first open the box. Truth be told, I did purchase the SanDisk 16 GB flash drive. Hey, they know what works best with this unit, and the price was like 5 cents different than Amazon. Take the hassle out of it for me!
[quoted image]
First things, first - FOLLOW the instructions. At first, I won't deny, I was a bit stumped as I was jumping on Pinside and the PinSound Community Forums looking all over the place for a nice, quick, simple, in-your-face set of instructions. That's when I looked in the packaging and saw these:
[quoted image]
The ones on the left come with any PS board, and they lay out ALL possible confirgurations - WPC89, WPC-S, WPC-95, etc. in a very easy to follow format. The latter handout came with the flashdrive, so I don't know for sure if it normally ocmes with each PS board or not. Now, I did one of these back in 2016, and I remember how long it takes to install the files from a zip format. Not fun.
So, what I did was go to mr_tantrum 's PinSound Tutorial Thread and went to his opening post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound#post-3715636
All you need to do is unzip the remix and then copy and paste that to the USB drive. To make things simple: FORMAT THE USB DRIVE first. Once you do that, unzip your remix of interest on your computer like so:
[quoted image]
Within each folder, you should have a folder set-up like this:
[quoted image]
Now, with Hazzard's BSD remix, he has an additional folder called "single". I do not know the purpose of this particular folder (I'll let Hazzard chime in on that one), but I do know others have installed this remix without incident, so I trusted this folder setup and copy/pasted it directly to my USB drive supplied by PinSound. With both the original and Hazzard remix unzipped, installation took significantly less time (read: 5 mins or so).
I then installed my new board into BSD. Thankfully, this part is rather "NPO proof" (read: idiot proof) as the two main power connectors are uniquely pinned (so they cannot be plugged in incorrectly), the ribbon cable only goes one way and has a raised housing so you cannot accidentally installed it "off center" (installation where you think all the pins and holes line up, but truth be told you installed the ribbon connector one set of pins off), and the speaker wires do not matter as they should complete a circuit connected either way.
[quoted image]
Nearly 25 years difference in technology. Love the potentiometers which act as equalizers for treble and bass. I also love the bottom left corner. Notice how there is a note on the bottom left connector? The PS guys mark off which 5V connector NOT to use by covering it up with that note, so you do not inadvertently damaged your new board. Pretty awesome!! Great attention to detail - or "cover your ass" method - depending on how full or empty you see the glass.
Once installed, I plugged in my USB drive, double checked all my connectors, double checked that I had all of them hooked up via the instructions, and then fired the game up. Takes PinSound about 7-10 seconds to initialize, and then the automated voice informs you "Scanning audio files, please wait." or something of the sort. Plays some "happy lil' elevator music" while you wait, and again, you don't wait long if you unzip the files as described above.
Once it's done, you get an "escalating in excitement" 3-chime jingle, and then off you go! I did not take a video of the actual game as you can view it currently on YT:
So, overall, a very simple install. Took me maybe 25 minutes total from opening the box to hitting the start button on my game. Now, that being said, I took advantage of the knowledge and struggles of those before me, and I have had previous experience with PS on a very VERY problematic TAF that had a 5V circuit hitting 4.75V regularly (read: reset nightmare). Even with the Kahr board, that TAF was simply struggling to fire on one, much the less all, cylinders.
To keep things simple: find a remix you like and THEN buy one of these boards and let someone else do the heavy lifting (making the orchestration remix). That lead me to a very simple and fulfilling installation. As time goes on, I may reference Mr_Tantrum's thread for the tools on creating my own remixes just to experiment with it and get more familiar with "beyond the install". As of now, wow, am I happy with this product.
Also, my only experiences rest with WPC89 games, so anyone struggling with Stern SAM games, I'm sorry, I have no experience to provide insights on what could be wrong.
My advice: if you can "get over the hump" of installing the unit, follow the directions to a "t", and take things slowly - the PinSound board seems to be a great product. I can see where people would get frustrated waiting 1-3 hours for the sound files to unzip and install, and THEN the board starts giving you errors and acting up. Do yourself a favor: unzip them on the USB drive - it makes the install go MUCH faster. Hazzard's BSD remix is about 430 Megs; along with the original sounds to install it took about 5 minutes total.
Next, making your own 2.1 stereo harness and introducing your own power supply for the 5V needs to keep your game's 5V breathing gently....!!
Great write-up, thanks for sharing all of the details & success of your Pinsound experience!
4 weeks later
Quoted from Davi:It is doing something, but not 100% clear what is the best way to adjust EQ and volume separately for cabinet and backbox.
Here are Pinsound 1 settings.
38385E81-8AA9-4757-B527-17DE139EAB73.pngQuoted from Davi:Thanks, but how this image helps to setup Pinside Plus board volumes and EQ for cab and backbox separately?
Sorry, I thought I read someone asking how Pinsound 1 did it (this is the version I currently own). I just posted the image to show that it has 7 controls and what each is. The Pinsound 1 has separate controls for backbox speakers and cabinet speaker (volume, bass, treble for each plus balance for the backbox speakers).
Quoted from Davi:It is doing something, but not 100% clear what is the best way to adjust EQ and volume separately for cabinet and backbox.
From what I can tell how the new Pinsound+ works, it appears you would use the pin's volume controls to set the overall desired volume, utilize the Sub Booster to then set the volume of the cabinet speaker (i.e. Sub Woofer) relative to the backbox speakers, then adjust the sub bass/eq bass/eq medium/eq treble controls to your liking.
Would seem you have all of the control available to you as in PS1 minus the sub treble (don't really think that was necessary anyway for the sub woofer/cabinet speaker), plus you now have a mid-range adjustment that you didn't have before.
Anyway, I'll let those who actually own a Pinsound+ chime in, but just going by what I could determine from what I've seen and read.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:I'm thinking about getting my first PinSound board. I just found out they are close to getting the BTTF software ready to test. I figured I would put the board in my Frankenstein while I wait for BTTF.
Does anybody have a recommendation of a cheaper option for replacing the speakers? I don't want to buy a kit from the usual guys. I already have a Polk self powered sub, so I would just need to replace the backbox speakers. What about Parts Express?
Thanks,
Rich
I would visually inspect your speakers first, and probably only replace them if they are damaged. On my Getaway, they were trashed (along with the cabinet speaker) with the cones either have significant tears in them or being partially/fully separated from the speaker housing. Therefore, I upgraded to these: https://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pl53bl-blue-label-5-1-4-triaxial-speaker-pair--267-080 which were a low-cost great improvement. On the other hand, I've heard a PinSound in a DE pin with original speakers that were still in tact, and the sound was terrific with no need to replace them. I can't speak to whether or not these specific ones will fit in your pins, but should be easily determined based upon size and specs.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:I am totally blown away at how much more the sounds enhance the gameplay.
Exactly the point with PinSound! I've stated it a multitude of times, but PS is absolutely the #1 upgrade for any game. In my mind, there is no other "mod" that actually impacts and changes the overall experience of playing a pin. A well done orchestration draws the player in more, evokes more emotion, syncs well with the game events, and keeps a player coming back for more (I like to think that the several I have done for Getaway achieve these things).
2 weeks later
Quoted from PinSound:One of our PinSound user was kind enough to send us a pic of his Attack From Mars setup.
No audio/video board, and everything works fine
[quoted image]
Sweet - that game is #1 on my wish list (probably not alone there). 
I just finished upgrading my Jurassic Park speakers from original to the PinSound ones for Data East. I must say that I'm very satisfied with the upgrade. For the cabinet speaker, the bass is much deeper and handles volume significantly better. The backbox speakers clearly have a better frequency range, provide a richer sound, and the sound effects are clearly more distinguishable. The PinSound speakers are at least 5x heavier than the original speakers, and clearly better built, and perform noticeably better. Overall a great upgrade and I'm enjoying the results. I still need to install the headphone interface, but I'm done for the day working on pins 
IMG_1947.JPGIMG_1949.JPGQuoted from Hazzard:Is there a soft dome tweeter on these? Or is it the regular plastic ones?
I don't remember (I think it is soft), but will have to take a speaker off to look. I can try to do this over the weekend sometime if you are on the fence of purchasing them.
Just finished installing my first PinSound Headphone Station (installed on PinSound 1 with adapter) on to my Jurassic Park, and it is great! Cool thing about it is that it can be used to control speaker volume when headphones are not plugged in. Very good for me because I am needing to replace the volume potentiometer which is almost completely shot (you can either set it to full blast or full blast static sound). With the headphone station you disconnect the volume control from the pin to the PinSound, so now you can control volume w/o having to open the coin door (good for me, maybe not so good if you have small kids in the house).
Also, the standard 2.25" leg bolts that were on my JP were not long enough since I have leg protectors (the stock bolts would have worked without leg protectors installed). I had to swap with a couple of 2.5" bolts from my Getaway for the time being until I can buy some new ones for JP.
IMG_1952.JPG
1 week later
Quoted from Hazzard:Is there a soft dome tweeter on these? Or is it the regular plastic ones?
Here is a pic - they look soft to me.
47BA478B-EFC8-4549-8BFF-A2C4FFF2B14A.jpegQuoted from Rdoyle1978:The speakers are very high quality - if I’m not mistaken they are soft tweeters and Kevlar comes. They sound A-MAZING
I have definitely been impressed with their quality and sound on my Jurassic Park. Significantly better than original, and much better than the budget Pyle speakers I put on my Getaway a couple of years ago.
Quoted from PinSound:Wish granted, here is the complete video tutorial for a WPC95 setup:
The installation manual for WPC95 is available here:
https://www.pinsound.org/help/wpc95-help/
And for information, all the video tutorials are available here:
https://www.pinsound.org/help/installation-videos/
Great instructional video. It looks like you've done that a few times before 
2 weeks later
Quoted from websherpa:After a LONG stint in storage, I finally put a PinSound 1 I had bought as a mod in. Impressive in mono, but laggy (until I upgraded to USB 3.
So I figured I’d go to the next level, cooked up my own 2.1 harness, switched to mono and tried out some mixes again, funny the audio was significantly lower in volume and no where near as bassy. (Stock speakers for the moment).
I’m wondering if I did something wrong or if this is expected?
I think you meant switched to stereo, right? Anyway, have you verified all polarities on your speakers? The new stereo setup will require some changing with all of the PinSound controls on the board for bass, treble, balance, fade, etc., but I'm surprised there was that large of a difference.
Just added a PinSound Headphones Station to the PinSound 1 on my Getaway, and love it! Even if you don't have a need for headphones, the ability to use the PSHS as an external volume control and orchestration changer makes it worth getting one.
Quoted from JohnJN:mr_tantrum -- outta curiosity, how did you thread the headphone wire through to the head box? did you drill a hole in the cabinet?
Also - you mentioned that you had to disconnect the volume control from the pin to the pinsound board -- is this required for headphone jack install?
Glad you found instructions. As far as the backbox goes, I routed cable up the back then through one if the vent holes at top. Just had to pry metal grate open from inside with a screwdriver.
1 week later
Quoted from pinballjah:My GnR came with a Pinsound 1 and I recently installed the new Pinsound board in my Getaway. I find the sound in the GnR is much better. Both have Flipper Fidelity speakers. Anyone notice a big difference in sound quality between games? GnR is a widebody. Thanks.
I would say different games require different tweaking of the physical PinSound potentiometers. I would think that as long as power to the board was good, and speakers were wired for stereo with polarity correct, quality should be fairly equal across all titles given comparable orchestrations. I have a Getaway (Williams) and a Jurassic Park (Data East), two very different orchestrations - HS2 is various music themed while JP is movie themed. However, I would say that the sound quality is nearly even on them with the slight edge going to JP due to the better PinSound speakers I have installed verses the lower quality Pyle speakers on the Getaway.
Quoted from pinballjah:I will have to find someone local who can have a look at my set up and see if they can figure it out. I have tried different settings on the Getaway but still doesn't compare in terms of stereo sound. It could be a power issue maybe as when I turn the speakers up loud I get distortion. Do you run a different power source on your Getaway? Thanks.
No, I don't. As long as you're getting 5V to the PS board, you should be good. I believe there is a guide somewhere on their website on how to check voltage to the board.
Quoted from pinballjah:It couldn't be the USB? Does that impact the quality of the sound from the Pinsound card?
No, that just stores the files. One test you could do is to copy some of the songs you currently have in your Getaway mix into songs on your GNR. If the songs sound good there then you know it's not your files, but something local to the Getaway. Also, a real pain, but you could always swap PinSound boards between machines and see if the issue stays with the original pin or moves with the PinSound.
Finally, a simple thing to try is to disconnect all cables to the PinSound and reconnect them (be sure to also reconnect all ribbon cables at the other end too).
Quoted from pinballjah:Came across an issue and wanted to see how common it is. After the game is finished, an ‘Attract’ song is played and it is faded out accordingly. When I start the next game, the music is extremely low but all the other effects sfx, vocals, etc) play at normal volume. When the game ends, and I start another game right away, all the sounds play normally. It only seems to happen when the Attract song plays to the end. I asked another member about this and they had the same issue before.
Is this a known problem and is there a way to resolve it? I will do a video to show the problem. Thanks.
I don't have this issue on Getaway. Yes, please post a short vid.
Quoted from pinballjah:The board was just purchased about a month ago. I would think it would have the most updated firmware, no? The last update appears to be from Dec 2018. Thanks.
You can look on your PinSound USB drive and their will be a text file in the root directly (forget exactly what it is called), if you open that it will show the boot sequence info and the firmware version installed.
Regardless, I would just update it from a fresh download.
4 weeks later
1 month later
Root of my PinSound One USB drive
pasted_image (resized).png
Contents of my config.ini file
pasted_image.png
You will have to play with the ducking settings (remove the leading semi-colon to enable them). Values are 0-100. I assume PinSound has left this feature available in their latest firmware, and I also assume it works on PinSound Plus.
If your config.ini has coded characters in it, then my recommendation is to copy the file off somewhere or rename it, then create a new config.ini with the contents as I've shown. Give it a try, can't hurt anything.
3 weeks later
Quoted from pinballjah:Has anyone downloaded the new Pro Studio version? Can the Global Levels be used to change the volumes for Vocal tracks for the entire orchestration when making changes? Thanks.
The new PSSP currently has limited features and not sure if the global settings work yet or not (you would need to test). Nicolas told me his main objective for this first release was shaker programmability, but he will be adding addition features to the software over time.
You don't/can't edit the config.pinsound file (this file contains details about an orchestration such as shaker commands, etc. using the new naming convention), rather the config.ini file which goes into the root of the USB drive as I've detailed before.
Quoted from pinballjah:I tried to edit this file. When I open it in a text file program (notepad, etc.), I see about 20 Chinese characters and nothing else.
Follow my instructions in the post above: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinsound-card-reviews-anyone/page/32#post-5142706
Quoted from pinballjah:This is from my Getaway. This is an original Pinsound card. Don't have the config file? Thanks.[quoted image]
I know. You have to create a text file from scratch, name it config.ini, and put the items in it that I describe in my post.
Quoted from adrock:pinsound Do you have any US vendors with stock at this time, or is $50+ shipping from France the only option for us? Thanks
For a single shaker, Post Parcel from France to US is about $23 via PinSide.
1 week later
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:I have used the original Pinsound board, just looking at getting some more boards and getting a shaker.
So downloaded the latest software but my original mixes will not load into the Pinsound Studio Pro as I am getting 'Incorrect sound package no config-pinsound file found'.
Where do I get this file and what does it do, I can not find any help on this.
You need to have the orchestration in the new format with the new folder naming convention. If the new version is not currently on the PinSound community site, then PM PinSound and they will take care of it for you.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:When did this start happening? Isn't this going to screw up all our custom mixes?
It is a relatively new requirement to support the new "shakerizations" (actually, may have been implemented even before that, in preparation for things to come). No, it will not mess up our custom orchestrations. PinSound will happily convert them if you ask, assuming they have not already posted updated ones on the PinSound community. It is a proprietary naming convention which can somehow change from orchestration to orchestration for the same pin. I don't understand how or why, but PinSound tells me it is a proprietary methodology. What also doesn't make sense, but what I've been assured of, is that you can follow any of the new folder naming conventions of a working orchestration for a given machine, and your new orchestration will work (assuming you also have updated the firmware on your PinSound).
Currently we are in a transition time where the new PinSound Studio Pro does not have all of the legacy PinSound Studio features built into it yet - they are coming. What does make things a little difficult, is that you can capture a PSREC file of a new orchestration and the old numbers show up in the old PinSound Studio (I still use this until PSSP has replay built into it). Just to be clear, all of the previous orchestrations will still work on PinSound even with the new firmware, but they will never support shaker routines and/or any other features that may be added in the future.
More specifically to the question posted, in order to add shaker actions you must use PSSP, and your orchestration must following the new folder naming convention for your pin along with the corresponding pinsound.config file. If you want to create a new custom orchestration and want to play simulated game files while building your orchestration, then you must use PSS for the time being.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I don't know the shaker folder/naming convention requirements, but this does sound a bit strange. I hope this is not an attempt to hinder other sound-replacement solutions, as this type of confusion will only end up screwing over the community YET AGAIN, and ultimately lead to lesser sales. I'm already a bit frustrated the price hasn't come down. I was going to put in an order for 2 boards and a set of speakers the other day, and the total was almost $1,000! PinSound is such a great solution, but the real lack of support (seriously, the board has been out for 4 years and there are still no instructions really) and the price is a hard pill to swallow. Perhaps it's what I had for breakfast, but for me the shine is starting to come off.
My guess, I have no real insight into the reasons, is that the original convention was designed before any of the advanced features were ever conceived. To add additional features required more complex coding, and some form of system to protect methodologies. PinSound is one of the few highly specialized products I can think of that still openly allows for end-user customization, and even supplies the tools that encourage it.
I know the pricing can sometimes be a barrier, but I sincerely think the brothers aren't getting rich off of this by any means. It is still a part time hobby/project of theirs which requires significant time investment & effort on their part (they still have to maintain real jobs to support themselves), they continually develop both the hardware and software, they travel the world over to pinball shows to promote their brand/products and to make enough sales to keep things going, they must account for licensing issues/agreements, etc. Unfortunately, in such a niche hobby (I know all of us would like to think home pinball ownership is mainstream, but it is not), there will never be enough volume with this type of product to drive down prices significantly. Coupled with the fact that the largest demand is in the US (I would assume), which elevates shipping costs since everything comes from France.
I'm sure that most already know all of these points, and when it comes down to it each person needs to make their own evaluation regarding if the feature set and experience the PinSound products deliver is worth the price point. For me, the answer is a resounding "yes". As a result, I've incrementally added PinSound boards and accessories to both of my pins as I could afford it. I'll never tell anyone else how to spend their money, but I happily promote PinSound as a result of my overall positive experience and what their products deliver to my overall enjoyment of pinball.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Agreed on all points. It's not like ColorDMD allows us to customize the color jobs!
No, they don't, but this is because a licensing rights issue with the IP owners. I can't help but imagine how much their sales would grow if they did allow customization and provided the tools to do so. Just imagine the buzz there would be across the pinball community over being able to not only personally colorize, but to substitute in customized animations and content. This is the reason why many have turned to products like PIN2DMD. Unfortunately, there are some limitations and the learning curve is significant. With a substantial existing colorization library, an open ColorDMD platform would have immediate success, and many could use their creativity to help grow and strengthen the hobby.
Quoted from pinballjah:If I don’t get a shaker and use the original Pinsound Studio, does anything change in terms of making orchestrations? Thanks.
No, at least not for now (who knows what the future may hold).
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:You mean ColorDMD has an agreement with Scientific Games ? Huh... I always assumed this was just a business secret in order to protect their OWN IP.
Companies like Stern & Planetary Pinball (Williams & others) own the IP rights to the frames and animations on the DMDs, and protect them like they were gold for some reason (these are 25+ year old games for he most part that are just circulated on the pre-owned market). ColorDMD has their patented methodology for converting those frames (one way, not the only way), but they also have agreements with the owners of the images and animations for the right to convert them (i.e. they pay the IP owners each time they sell a ColorDMD - or at least they have some form of financial arrangement).
Believe me, what I started my PIN2DMD colorization project for The Getaway a couple of years ago, I got legal threats from both ends.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Got it. I wonder if they really own the rights, or are just protecting their investment in the repro rights. I thought PPS owned the right to reproduce, which (IANAL) AFAIK is not the same as actually owning the distribution rights. Further, since you bought the game, you (at least in the US) have teh right to modify it. Perhaps that's slightly different for ColorDMD, being a company trading on the use of those images... but Pin2DMD should be free & clear as it's one's own work. Not 100% sure if I am characterizing this correctly, but that's my current understanding.
It would seem that Scientific Games (the *actual* rights holder) would be interested in protecting those original rights. PPS has a reputation for being way overprotective on their (lesser, reproduction rights) - i wonder if that was ever legally challenged, if this particular case would ever hold up. Or are ColorDMD and PinSound essentially just paying a fee to keep their companies out of court?
Yes, I realize how 'conspiracy theory' this sounds, but it IS business.
The issue was not modifying for your own use (although there was some pushback on that), but actually sharing/distributing with others, even if you didn't charge for it. Also, ColorDMD has a much higher opinion of what their patent(s) cover verses what they actually do. In their mind any colorization of any type violates their patent, but I've read their patents and this would not hold up based upon my experience. I'm just a hobbyist individual, and have no desire of any legal challenges, so I had to let them rough me up a little. However, I happily jab back occasionally. 
Quoted from shepP:So playing around with the boot.wav I noticed if I use a long audio file it will keep on playing even when gameplay is started. Is their a way to stop it playing or am I just stuck using a short sound file. I thought it might be neat have music playing until the a game was started...
I don't know what the defined length of that clip is, but I've had them too long before where they just cutoff. No way to time it to when a game starts. I would just suggest you play around to see what is possible.
I have a lot to say on the topic regarding the PinSound shaker, but I will try to keep things to the point. Just to let everyone know, I am the one who was selected to do the PinSound shaker programming for The Getaway. I've done over a dozen custom orchestrations for The Getaway and helped on a variety of others for various pins.
1) Physical Installation | Very simple, easy instructions, takes 15-30 minutes
2) Custom Orchestrations | The only requirement of any mix is that the folder naming convention be in the new number structure. If you have an older version that follows the simple numbering, then it will not work. All you have to do is re-download the mix from the PinSound community forum which should have the new structure. If you have an orchestration you did yourself, then PM PinSound and they will be happy to convert it for you. In order to support advanced features they had to change the way they were referencing the folders. So, nothing difficult or incompatible at all with a custom mix as long as it is converted to the current folder structure.
3) Programming | PinSound is working with users like me to create default shakerizations (my word). If there is one done for your game, then you are plug and play ready to go (will need to install latest firmware). If you want to do your own from scratch or modify an existing routine, then that is quite simple with PinSound Studio Pro. You have 9 different default shaker actions plus 3 custom ones you can program onto any sound event in a game. If editing an existing routine, you'll spend 5-10 minutes. If starting from scratch, you can have a basic shakerization done in 15-20 minutes. Afterwards you'll spend as much time as you want fine tuning things.
4) Orchestration Compatibility | A shaker routine for a game is automatically compatible with ALL orchestrations for that game (there is a feature that will allow you do disable for a given orchestration if you like). So, if PinSound includes one by default (they are still in process of developing for all games) or if you do your own, it will work with every orchestration you have on the USB drive without having to do anything extra.
I highly recommend the PinSound shaker if you already have a PinSound or buy them together as a kit. It is well designed, easily integrates, and PinSound includes all of the tools to easily program the shaker routine. Since I have firsthand experience with installation and programming from start to finish, I'd be happy to answer any questions I can that people post in this thread.
If you are interested in learning more about my Getaway shaker experience, you can start here and read several posts down regarding the installation and programming for The Getaway | https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/getaway-club-dispatch-run-a-make-on-license-plate-kingpin/page/196#post-5176104
Quoted from zahner:This is all very positive information. One dumb question: how does one know if one has the old versus new numbering convention?
The easiest way to know is if you have a PinSound.config file in the orchestration’s main folder (same level as the various file type folders - music, etc.) Here are some example screen shots of old vs. new with one of my Getaway orchestrations.
Old Format
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
New Format
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from Jimmyhonda:Thank you Tantrum! I have the IJ custom mix on mine. Do you know if these custom mixes are updated with shaker implementation now? If so, just install shaker, download new mix and I’m ready to go?
I don’t know if IJ is done yet. But if it were, yes to your question.
Quoted from zahner:Okay, so if I see something that looks like the photo attached below, I should be good to go?
BTW, thanks for the help. I have frequently read your posts re Pinsound and they have proven very helpful.[quoted image]
Yes, once the shaker program is launched (or if you want to create your own), your orchestration is in the correct format. Basically, you will have an updated pinsound.config file to replace or possibly it might even be in a firmware update that will automatically do it for you (I'm still unclear a little on this one).
I export to WAV 16-bit from Audacity (tool I use to do my sound editing). Important thing is to start with a high quality original and when editing to equalize all of the files (e.g. modify them to all have about the same amplitude). I find that the graph I want typically looks something like what I've attached. the key is to have all of the music with the light color in the center of the graph to be close to ranging from -.5 to .5, even if you have to clip a little on the high/low end (i.e. the peaks). Other settings would be Stereo, 48000Hz, 32-bit within Audacity.
pasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from Rdoyle1978:And FWIW it is not worth setting audio files on these games to 32-bit, or to anything higher than 44100 Hz. You might want to do that with a high end stereo system, but in these games ultra high-end audio is indistinguishable from CD quality (16-bit) and just adds additional processor overhead, which could lead to lag in the sounds being played.
Those are just the default settings, so I don't bother taking the time to change them every time (or I've not bothered trying to figure out how to change the defaults). Granted, while it is not discernable on the pin, the hardware is more than capable w/o any noticeable lag or other issues. Lazy, I know.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Is there a Mac version for Pinsound studio?
And any instructions for using it, that might make sense to someone who has never done it?
Would like to do a David Bowie AFM mix, but right now it is looking unlikely.
No, there is no MAC version. I have a fairly detailed guide, but with the new PinSound Studio Pro it is somewhat obsolete since the new version does not allow for game playback yet. Even so, if interested you can read here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound
Personally, I don't really use PinSound Studio to do my orchestrations except for one thing: game playback/simulation. You do all of your sound editing outside of that tool (see my guide - Audacity is your best friend for capturing and creating custom music/fx/etc.), but the one thing for me that was very useful was the game simulation. This helps me listed to my sound events for timing, loudness, etc. within the context of a game without having to run back and forth to the real pin to test.
The issue at this point is that the brothers can only do so much at once. They are in the middle of releasing their shakers and need programs developed for pins (I did the one for Getaway). In order to program the shaker, they had to come up with a new process and new software (i.e. PinSound Studio Pro). I'm sure that once things settle down then they will have time to add the playback feature into the new version, but only so many hours in the day, so to speak.
While you don't really need the tool to do a custom sound package, you do need it to do a shakerization. The new PSSP is awesome at doing this. It makes things very simple, and you can literally do a shaker routine in less that 5 minutes. Now, you'll spend much longer than that trying it on the real pin and making adjustments, but getting something basic done is quite simple and quick. The good news is that PinSound will actually include default shaker routines for games already done by community members. In this case you don't have to do anything to have the shaker work, or you could tweak the existing routine to your liking.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Great - Don't need anything else then?
I swapped a few song files but it didn't work when I added a .wav in a custom version that had all .ogg files, so guess you have to use one or the other?
I will do some reading about Audacity.
No, you can get it all done with Audacity. A few pointers are that you want all of our sounds to be of similar amplitude. You want the lighter center of the curve to be between about +/- 3 or so. Also, you need to read my guide regarding pseudo stereo plugin for Audacity. I convert all mono sounds to stereo using this. There are settings you'll want to play with so as not to create an echo effect.
pasted_image (resized).pngIf you have more than one sound file in a folder then they will randomly play (no way to control order).
You may have multiple folders with the same name. What is important is the number as this is what is keyed from. The names are whatever the person who extracted the file designated them as, and often they are inaccurate. However, they may be accurate, but called at different times by a game.
3 weeks later
I have 7 or 8 on my Getaway and 2 on my Jurassic Park, and have never had such an issue (using PinSound 1). Are all of your orchestrations in the new convention or do you have a mix? If you haven't already done so, I would suggest updating to the latest firmware and ensuring all orchestrations follow the new convention.
1 month later
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Anybody know how to create or edit a config.pinsound file? Seems like this is missing on my set of files.
This file should be in the parent folder of each orchestration (eg USB-ROOT/GetawayOrchestration1/config.pinsound)
It is included with each orchestration and part of the new naming convention format. It is a non editable file that contains sound reference and shaker instruction for a given orchestration.
Also, you cannot just create one. Download the default orchestration from PinSound for your game and it will have this file (if it has been some time since you last did this, you have the old version but it has been updated to new format on the site). From here you can modify orchestration how you choose and use the new PinSound Studio Pro to create a shakerization. When doing so, the config.pinsound file will be automatically updated.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Ok thanks. The concern I have is it appears all the files listed (IE Indiana Jones) have vast differences in folder sctructure names. I read the Pinsound info on folder names and it says everything before the dash needs to be the same, but that isn’t the case in the files I’ve downloaded
I’ll go ahead and grab the default config.pinsound file and drop it into the reorchestrated set I currently have and let you know my findings
In order to convert to the new convention all of the orchestrations were redone and reposted on the site. The older retired convention had shorter numbers and no config for the orchestration. To support the new format, you must upgrade to the latest firmware and copy the newer version of the orchestration to the USB. The same rules apply in that the folder names must keep the new longer number but you can name the rest of the folder and the sound files in them to whatever you want.
One caveat is that you may still have different new orchestrations for the same pin, but they have differing numbering schemes. In this case they will both still work, but the config.pinsound files are not interchangeable. As long as the orchestrations do have the same numbering then the config file is interchangeable. This is quite handy when you do a shakerization for a pin because you only have to do it once then copy the file to other orchestrations for that same game and the shakerization will automatically be applied.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:Would be nice to know how to create our own config.pinsound file though. Still waiting to hear back from Pinsound so I can fix the IJ file
Format is proprietary and confidential, so PinSound will not share the methodology or tools to create your own. What exactly is your issue? Are you working with your own custom orchestration that doesn't work after a firmware update or what? If you are using one of the orchestrations posted on the community forum (http://pinsound-community.org/forum/index.php?/files/category/30-indiana-jones) then you just need to re-download if yours is from a few months or more ago as they should have all been updated to the new format (ignore the submitted/updated date).
If you do re-download and it is still the old format then PM PinSound and they will fix it.
4 months later
Quoted from PeterG:Is BTTF already supported? I could not find it on their page.
I believe it is the same version pin as other DE games that are listed, so not sure why it is not. I recommend you pm PinSound and ask.
10 months later
Quoted from swayzewaters:How hard is it to install your own music? Where did you get the files from? I’m thinking about it for WWF but I’m worried it’s a lot of work. The onboard sound package for WWF is bad and akin to a Shea Genesis game but I don’t know if I’d want to upgrade just to hear the corny music and call outs better so I’m curious about the process of going all the way with it.
Very simple: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tantrums-guide-to-pinsound
Quoted from ToucanF16:Ks Arcade is out of stock. Any other US distributors?
Just order direct. They are very fast with shipping (the last order I made a few weeks ago only took 8 days to arrive).
4 months later
Quoted from pinballjah:I see Pinsound supports System 11 games. Has anyone done any orchestrations for these types of games? Any reason there is only 1 orchestration in the 7 System 11 games listed in the Pinsound community? Thanks.
Probably because PinSound has been waiting for you to come along and expand the catalog.
I am a little surprised that pins like Rollergames or Radical don't at least have orchestrations - seem like perfect candidates. You can download the original orchestrations from the main site (not the forum), but you are correct in that there don't seem to be any custom orchestrations except the one for Taxi.
Quoted from pinballjah:Yes, it is odd the original orchestration is not on the community site. But I did download the Rollergames original file and its structure seems to be very similar to the other DMD games. These would be fun to play around with but likely not many owners have Pinsound cards in their System 11 games. You think Bugs Bunny would have its own orchestration.
The one Diner orchestration has 628 downloads so this would indicate it is popular and a few people must have the Pinsound cards in their games.
You might want to hit up the Taxi owners thread to find out more info.
Quoted from pinballjah:Not sure what the DE speaker noise issue is but it is a brand new soundboard and it is recommended to upgrade to new speakers, so likely no issues. Pinsound also sells a power booster cable that is recommended with the board to make sure it gets the proper power it needs to operate. I have one in my GnR and Tommy and they sound great.
No feedback in my DE JP either when I had it.
1 week later
Quoted from pinballjah:Anyone have issues with their Pinsound headphone station working properly on a Data East game? More specifically, the volume control does not change the volume gradually. Rather, you can turn it quite far with no change in volume, then all of a sudden it goes really loud near the end of the gauge. Seem to have the same issue on both my Tommy and GnR. They work great on my Elvis and Doctor Who, but the Data East games seem to have the same problem. Thanks.
When I had my DE JP, it worked perfectly. However, there were stages with certain firmwares that were required. Are your PinSound boards fully updated to the latest firmware version?
Quoted from pinballjah:I guess the community is down still for uploading new orchestrations? Been trying to upload one now for a week, with no luck.
You should PM PinSound and let them know you are having issues.
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider mr_tantrum.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
