(Topic ID: 207096)

Pinsider DIABLO totally jerked me around buying a pin.

By shacklersrevenge

6 years ago


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  • 181 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Frax
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 180 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    -3
    #151 6 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    We already told you why, and I outlined exactly why. So because the guy sells a bunch of parts and has a 100% feedback, that gives him a license to lie, over and over again about buying machines, and holding sales up? He's like the James Bond of lying.
    You wouldn't have even brought it up here, but here you are, defending the guy, because it didn't happen to you.

    I wasn't defending the guy's behavior. Not at all. And yes, it has happened to me, lots of times. If I had a nickel for every time somebody said they wanted something I had for sale and either never showed or never had the money...

    I just don't wait a month. I give them maybe a week. If there's lots of demand for the item I'll give them 48 hours, tops. It's just not a big deal. YOU set the terms. If they don't meet your terms, THEY lose.

    My point is, the guy has every right to be here. He hasn't screwed anybody over and he isn't going around causing trouble in the forum. No reason to start a lynch mob to have him exiled. It's like wanting the guy driving in front of you banned from the streets because he signaled for a turn, but didn't turn. Annoying? Yes. Ban worthy? No.

    Now if you were out money and have been waiting over a month to get your game, that's a different story. I bought an item from a Pinsider and waited two months to get it. I had no recourse other than filing a Paypal dispute, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Lots of promises made, but the item wasn't shipped for two months. I know a couple other people who bought from the same Pinsider and waited a long time, one waited THREE MONTHS before their item was shipped. This is the kind of behavior that should be banned, wouldn't you agree?

    #152 6 years ago

    I would like to hear from someone who actually successfully sold something to this guy. His M.O. is to waste your time asking for pictures and negotiating, then he tells you he wants it and will send a bank check. As weeks go by he follows up with “did you receive my check yet?”

    After waiting almost 2 months to get paid I find out my buddy has a buyer for his Genie who is sending a check from Canada. I tell him my story and it turns out to be the same guy. When confronted the guy says it wasn’t him and that maybe it was his brother who shares his pinside account??? (This is documented in PM’s if Pinside wanted to investigate)

    This guy is a habitual liar and his behavior should not be accepted by the Pinside community.

    #153 6 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    I wasn't defending the guy's behavior. Not at all. And yes, it has happened to me, lots of times. If I had a nickel for every time somebody said they wanted something I had for sale and either never showed or never had the money...
    I just don't wait a month. I give them maybe a week. If there's lots of demand for the item I'll give them 48 hours, tops. It's just not a big deal. YOU set the terms. If they don't meet your terms, THEY lose.
    My point is, the guy has every right to be here. He hasn't screwed anybody over and he isn't going around causing trouble in the forum. No reason to start a lynch mob to have him exiled. It's like wanting the guy driving in front of you banned from the streets because he signaled for a turn, but didn't turn. Annoying? Yes. Ban worthy? No.
    Now if you were out money and have been waiting over a month to get your game, that's a different story. I bought an item from a Pinsider and waited two months to get it. I had no recourse other than filing a Paypal dispute, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Lots of promises made, but the item wasn't shipped for two months. I know a couple other people who bought from the same Pinsider and waited a long time, one waited THREE MONTHS before their item was shipped. This is the kind of behavior that should be banned, wouldn't you agree?

    You're witch hunting in the wrong thread. You're talking about receiving your items with delay. I received nothing but bullshit from Diablo.

    #154 6 years ago

    dothedoo: I'm NOT signaling you out here so please don't take it as such

    Just responding with an open mind on both sides of the line on some of the points that were mentioned.

    Quoted from dothedoo:

    He hasn't screwed anybody over and he isn't going around causing trouble in the forum

    Yes and No, Nobody has lost any dollar value but a persons time is valuable especially when taking photos and taking the time listing out all details on a machine and going back and fourth thru PM's and emails on any questions asked. Whether it was done in a public thread or PM's that lead to emails where he kept stringing the seller along it was still done thru the use of these forums.

    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Now if you were out money and have been waiting over a month to get your game, that's a different story.

    Again I see this from both sides, but the seller can be out the money and sometimes much needed space for a new arriving pin, the money and space he/she would have had from other potential buyers that he/she now had to inform they had an agreed sale pending and like most in this hobby when we have the extra scratch if something isn't available any longer we'll find another machine to spend it on.

    Quoted from dothedoo:

    It's like wanting the guy driving in front of you banned from the streets because he signaled for a turn, but didn't turn.

    Both sides again here see a pattern lol, true the one driver shouldn't be banned from making a turn or not making a turn when signaling to do so or not. However when it's done repeatably due to poor driving tactics they will eventually get caught by the law and summonsed for doing so and maybe even instructed to take a driver's safety course.

    People are a creature of habit and as Diablo has already demonstrated thru the many that had spoken out ( 6 or 7 at least when last counted) and I'm sure there are others who just didn't even chime in with their tale of woe, that he is one person who his word/agreement cannot be trusted to seal a deal.

    Anyway the way I see it and it's just my opinion which is worth .02, if the forum moderators choose not to ban, temp ban or even instruct him thru PM's about his form of annoyance / borderline harassment behavior with total lack of respect to other forum members for doing so well then it's still great we have the ignore option to block such people who have poor practices.

    #155 6 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Now if you were out money and have been waiting over a month to get your game, that's a different story. I bought an item from a Pinsider and waited two months to get it. I had no recourse other than filing a Paypal dispute, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Lots of promises made, but the item wasn't shipped for two months. I know a couple other people who bought from the same Pinsider and waited a long time, one waited THREE MONTHS before their item was shipped. This is the kind of behavior that should be banned, wouldn't you agree?

    You're not going to sit here, in my thread, and play guessing games, all while making a backhanded point to launch your personal attack on my character as a comparison to Diablos. It ain't gonna fucking happen.

    You waited for that board I sent you, and I delivered- AS PROMISED
    It was of excellent quality, was it not? - AS PROMISED

    Now, I challenge you and your little friends that pow wowed, who waited THREE MONTHS for something, (???) to confirm that I actually, factually, screwed them.
    The answer is no. Didn't happen. I either deliver or I refund, it's that simple.
    Not everyone has their shoes lined up for every day of the week, shined and polished by Sunday night. I waited for that guy because I was trusting and patient. Now I'm pissed. I'll get over it.

    I agree with nothing you say. You've built your bridge, now wait for someone else to cross.

    #156 6 years ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    dothedoo: I'm NOT signaling you out here so please don't take it as such

    No worries, I didn't.

    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    Yes and No, Nobody has lost any dollar value but a persons time is valuable especially when taking photos and taking the time listing out all details on a machine and going back and fourth thru PM's and emails on any questions asked. Whether it was done in a public thread or PM's that lead to emails where he kept stringing the seller along it was still done thru the use of these forums.

    Again, not condoning his behavior. I think it's wrong too.

    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    Again I see this from both sides, but the seller can be out the money and sometimes much needed space for a new arriving pin, the money and space he/she would have had from other potential buyers that he/she now had to inform they had an agreed sale pending and like most in this hobby when we have the extra scratch if something isn't available any longer we'll find another machine to spend it on.

    I think he'll learn from this experience and keep his options open in case the deal falls through, as do many of us who have been here before.

    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    Both sides again here see a pattern lol, true the one driver shouldn't be banned from making a turn or not making a turn when signaling to do so or not. However when it's done repeatably due to poor driven tactics they will eventually get caught by the law and summonsed for doing so and maybe even instructed to take a driver's safety course.

    Which they should. Making them take a driver's safety course does not mean revoking their driver's license. They will still be allowed to drive.

    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    People are a creature of habit and as Diablo has already demonstrated thru the many that had spoken out ( 6 or 7 at least when last counted) and I'm sure there are others who just didn't even chime in with their tale of woe, that he is one person who his word/agreement cannot be trusted to seal a deal.

    Anyway the way I see it and it's just my opinion which is worth .02, if the forum moderators choose not to ban, temp ban or even instruct him thru PM's about his form of annoyance / borderline harassment behavior with total lack of respect to other forum members for doing so well then it's still great we have the ignore option to block such people who have poor practices.

    Calling him out is fine. The more people he does this to, the less people will want to deal with him.

    Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first thread regarding non-payment by Diablo and the OP is asking for an immediate ban, which in and of itself, is wrong.

    Now that others have come forward, the moderators can collect facts and make an informed decision on what to do about him, if anything.

    #157 6 years ago

    Those that say Big D doesn't need to be banned for not conning people, only wasting time; consider why Special K's was rejected. This guy is just lower key.

    #158 6 years ago

    He did the exact same thing to me. I waited about 3 months before giving up. When I attempted to reply to the thread, he deleted it.

    #159 6 years ago
    Quoted from er0sion:

    He did the exact same thing to me. I waited about 3 months before giving up. When I attempted to reply to the thread, he deleted it.

    Leave negative feedback for him.

    #160 6 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Calling him out is fine. The more people he does this to, the less people will want to deal with him.
    Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first thread regarding non-payment by Diablo and the OP is asking for an immediate ban, which in and of itself, is wrong.

    How about if the mods just changed his username to "PATHOLOGICAL_TIRE_KICKER"?

    #161 6 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    How about if the mods just changed his username to "PATHOLOGICAL_TIRE_KICKER"?

    I suggest that after someone writes a bad review on a buyer like this they contact a moderator. If the moderator decides that the buyer has no intent to buy the pin and is a habitual liar they add a Pinnochio icon next to their avatar. The more times that they jerk someone around on Pinside the larger the nose gets.

    For diablo there would be a note next to the Pinnochio that says “Click here to get the whole story.” Clicking there would bring up a full screen view of Pinnochio and his enormous nose.

    #162 6 years ago

    I know enough about forum politics and the popularity of a good old fashioned dogpile but it is a slippery slope and in reality moderators shouldn't have the authority to make public judgements on private transactions.

    On local forums here in Australia this "power" got abused on such a regular basis because the moderators lacked the professional real world experience to separate their public duty from a private vendetta.

    #163 6 years ago

    The moderators won't do anything to flag someone's account as untrustworthy, disreputable, etc. due to liability issues. They may ban diablo from Pinside, but will eventually let him come back. Pinsider Gorf posted an ad for a T3 for sale on Pinside. Allegedly his pin was heavily routed; cabinet wear around flippers, playfield wear, etc., but he presented pictures of someone else's high end collector quality pin. Again this is allegedly (read https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bad-seller-alert-gorf/page/5). Gorf was rude to people in that forum and refused to compensate the buyer for the difference between the pins. A moderator banned him from Pinside. He apologized for his behavior and was allowed back on pinside, and is selling pins on Pinside again (See https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/gorf/market).

    If gorf allegedly defrauded another pinsider and is allowed to still be on pinside, the moderators will not be banning diablo for jerking people around. Unfortunately both gorf and diablo will be on pinside as long as they want to be here.

    -3
    #164 6 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    The moderators won't do anything to flag someone's account as untrustworthy, disreputable, etc. due to liability issues. They may ban diablo from Pinside, but will eventually let him come back. Pinsider Gorf posted an ad for a T3 for sale on Pinside. Allegedly his pin was heavily routed; cabinet wear around flippers, playfield wear, etc., but he presented pictures of someone else's high end collector quality pin. Again this is allegedly (read https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bad-seller-alert-gorf/page/5). Gorf was rude to people in that forum and refused to compensate the buyer for the difference between the pins. A moderator banned him from Pinside. He apologized for his behavior and was allowed back on pinside, and is selling pins on Pinside again (See https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/gorf/market).
    If gorf allegedly defrauded another pinsider and is allowed to still be on pinside, the moderators will not be banning diablo for jerking people around. Unfortunately both gorf and diablo will be on pinside as long as they want to be here.

    I'm not interested in Monday morning quarterbacking. But both Gorf and Diablo are Pinsider contributors. They both have the little red hearts next to their names. They contribute to the cause, so to speak. Look at their sales action and you will see more than a few green tickets where they paid Pinside some jack for the privilege of listing and selling pins here.

    Contrast this with some who put up a pin for sale, and then the ad says the pin was "not sold", and then, son of bitch, you go look at the seller's collection page and the pin is no longer part of the collection and has been moved to pins owned in the past and Pinside did not get a commission.

    If you have bills to cover and you have to pick and choose, you are most likely going to keep those who ante up.

    #165 6 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I'm not interested in Monday morning quarterbacking. But both Gorf and Diablo are Pinsider contributors. They both have the little red hearts next to their names. They contribute to the cause, so to speak. Look at their sales action and you will see more than a few green tickets where they paid Pinside some jack for the privilege of listing and selling pins here.
    Contrast this with some who put up a pin for sale, and then the ad says the pin was "not sold", and then, son of bitch, you go look at the seller's collection page and the pin is no longer part of the collection and has been moved to pins owned in the past and Pinside did not get a commission.
    If you have bills to cover and you have to pick and choose, you are most likely going to keep those who ante up.

    This is why it's an excellent idea for people to keep their page private, so people do not jump to conclusions and make half assed assessments.
    Some who put a pin up for sale, do not sell it through here, as there is Facebook, eBay, local listings, and closed local groups, so "son of a bitch" all you want to, it's plain ignorance to make a blanket statement like that.

    #166 6 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I'm not interested in Monday morning quarterbacking. But both Gorf and Diablo are Pinsider contributors. They both have the little red hearts next to their names. They contribute to the cause, so to speak. Look at their sales action and you will see more than a few green tickets where they paid Pinside some jack for the privilege of listing and selling pins here.
    Contrast this with some who put up a pin for sale, and then the ad says the pin was "not sold", and then, son of bitch, you go look at the seller's collection page and the pin is no longer part of the collection and has been moved to pins owned in the past and Pinside did not get a commission.
    If you have bills to cover and you have to pick and choose, you are most likely going to keep those who ante up.

    Diablo did sell several things on Pinside and made some contributions, but that doesn't excuse him jerking people around with lies about "the check is in the mail" repeatedly. Gorf sold several pins on Pinside and didn't contribute anything, listing items as "sold elsewhere." After he allegedly ripped off the seller in the thread that I mentioned, wrote rude comments to Pinsiders and then he was banned. He apologized and offered to contribute $ to Pinside if they would let him back on the site. He contributed, again AFTER he was banned, and then they let him get back on the site.

    There are two sides to the people that list pins on Pinside and then mark the pins "not sold." Yes, there are people that sell through Pinside and never contribute. I know several sellers that advertise simultaneously on Pinside, Facebook and Craigslist. If the buyer contacts them through Pinside they contribute to Pinside. If they contact them through Facebook or Craigslist they mark the sale as "sold elsewhere" and do not contribute to Pinside.

    The site does have to generate a certain amount of revenue. Unfortunately I think that was the reason why they allowed Gorf back on the site, and did not opt to make his ban permanent for his alleged swindling of a member of this site.

    #167 6 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    The site does have to generate a certain amount of revenue. Unfortunately I think that was the reason why they allowed Gorf back on the site, and did not opt to make his ban permanent for his alleged swindling of a member of this site.

    More likely robin and Martijn talked with Gorf and made a judgement call believing the behavior would not be repeated. They would not be running the top pinball forum in the world if they favored screwing fellow pinheads over maintaining their integrity.

    #168 6 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I'm not interested in Monday morning quarterbacking. But both Gorf and Diablo are Pinsider contributors. They both have the little red hearts next to their names. They contribute to the cause, so to speak. Look at their sales action and you will see more than a few green tickets where they paid Pinside some jack for the privilege of listing and selling pins here.
    Contrast this with some who put up a pin for sale, and then the ad says the pin was "not sold", and then, son of bitch, you go look at the seller's collection page and the pin is no longer part of the collection and has been moved to pins owned in the past and Pinside did not get a commission.
    If you have bills to cover and you have to pick and choose, you are most likely going to keep those who ante up.

    Good guy or not, I'm glad I didn't sell my game to him based on a few of the issues mentioned.

    Regarding avoiding fees, I sold my game after I archived the for sale ad. I did clearly sell the game because it was listed here and I sold it to a Pinsider that contacted while it was listed, so while I have donated in the past and wasn't purposely avoiding the fee, I think I realistically should make the extra donation. Can anyone tell me if I'm remembering correctly that the fee is $7.50 if you sell a game?

    13
    #169 6 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    The site does have to generate a certain amount of revenue. Unfortunately I think that was the reason why they allowed Gorf back on the site, and did not opt to make his ban permanent for his alleged swindling of a member of this site.

    Who donates and/or pays fees and who doesn't doesn't factor into moderation decisions. There's no conspiracy here. Keep in mind that all the moderators are volunteers, and we have little involvement in the business side of things.

    Anyone who does get ejected/frozen/banned for a rules violation usually does get a second chance if they participate in discussion about their behavior and the situation that lead up to the banning. Everyone makes mistakes, and we're not tyrants here, after all. But, repeat offenders--which are few, thankfully--will have certain privileges removed or receive permanent vacations from the site.

    Additionally, we don't get involved in or mediate private matters. Anyone is welcome to post their experience on the forums or to ask for advice, but when people have an issue with a transaction with each other, they ultimately have to work it out between themselves. But, if there is a forum rule violation during that process (such as a personal attack, as sometimes happens in disagreements), then that person will be moderated for that rule violation.

    Now, we will ban accounts that are actively attempting to scam members, but there is a difference between someone whose entire purpose here is to scam someone, and members who might just be involved in a deal that went bad.

    Quoted from bluespin:

    There are two sides to the people that list pins on Pinside and then mark the pins "not sold." Yes, there are people that sell through Pinside and never contribute. I know several sellers that advertise simultaneously on Pinside, Facebook and Craigslist. If the buyer contacts them through Pinside they contribute to Pinside. If they contact them through Facebook or Craigslist they mark the sale as "sold elsewhere" and do not contribute to Pinside.

    For someone who sells a fair number of games, chances are low that *every* game sold elsewhere, so if there is a member who has a chronic habit of listing and ending without even occasionally paying a fee, they will likely end up hearing from someone about that. But in general, it's based on the honor system.

    Lastly, for anyone who participates in a transaction with someone, I highly encourage you to use the feedback system. I understand that some people don't want to go on the record and be "that guy" who posts the one negative review based on something that could have been a one-time fluke. The feedback system is supposed to be useful and helpful for giving others an idea on what interacting with a member might be like (note that members do have a chance to respond to unsolicited feedback that gets posted to their feedback page). But if everybody keeps quiet about positive or negative interactions, it doesn't help others, and the feedback system doesn't end up being very useful.

    #170 6 years ago

    Well said Forceflow. I think enough negativity and points have been made here in this thread, and we should all get back to focusing on the positives of pinball.
    Requesting to close out the thread.
    Thanks

    #171 6 years ago

    please leave the thread open. these are useful comments and there may be more. i think closing it is a disservice to the community.

    i also think it is ridiculous that this guy has outright lied to at least a dozen Pinsiders (probably lots more who haven't seen this thread), resulting in lots of messed up sales and ridiculous amounts of wasted time. this guy isn't a flake -- the sheer number of people with the same story should make it clear he's an outright LIAR. nobody has yet admitted to sending him a game on a promise of payment that never arrived, but misleading people about an intention to pay (and lying that they put the check in the mail, over and over and over to a dozen different Pinsiders) IS scamming in my opinion.

    I wish the moderator team would rethink their position that his actions aren't banworthy, simply based on the number of people he's apparently jerked around. he sounds like a chronic nuisance.

    #172 6 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    The moderators won't do anything to flag someone's account as untrustworthy, disreputable, etc. due to liability issues.

    LOL

    4 weeks later
    #173 6 years ago
    Quoted from BudManPinFan:

    He knows how to agree to a deal, he just doesn’t know how to pay for a deal. And that’s really the most important part of the deal...the paying for it. Anyone can just agree to a deal.

    lol how "Seinfeld"

    #174 6 years ago

    All these pages and not one single DIABLO callout?

    Yo dude, they're talking about you, @diablo.

    #175 6 years ago

    Man this thread was a good/fun read. I want to post that this guy did the same thing to me just cause I feel like the only person that he didn't try this on.

    #177 6 years ago

    So he is a known criminal with a history of ripping people off yet he's allowed to continue on this site. robin can you look into this?

    #178 6 years ago

    looks like a lot of canucs on this list.

    #179 6 years ago
    Quoted from freddy:

    looks like a lot of canucs on this list.

    I know,and that sucks too see.

    #180 6 years ago

    All this for 600 bucks? Even I can conjure 600 bucks for a game I REALLY want out of thin air and not die, and I'm pretty sure I'm one of the most broke-ass motherf... on this board.

    There are 180 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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