(Topic ID: 247587)

Pinside top 100? Jealous people giving low ratings?


By mjruser

3 months ago



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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by cjmjmm2006
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    #1 3 months ago

    Hello All,

    I'm not quite sure I understand the rankings of the TOP 100? Medieval Madness is the number one ranked pin and it's 21 years old, I find it hard to believe that a better pin hasn't been released in that time. I had an original MB for 18 years and while I loved it when push came to shove I sold it and kept Twilight Zone which actually has a plunger, 4 flippers, and a rule set that can't be beaten the afternoon you buy it.

    I see folks coming in on new games e.g. Willy Wonka and after playing like 3 games give it a much lower than average rating. Really you can decide on a game in 3 games?

    >> It feels like jealousy to me, I can't have it so I'm going to rate it low.

    Owners and past owners are almost the only reviews worth reading, perhaps the ranking system should give those people 100% vote and then ask everyone how many games they have played on the machine they are reviewing and give them % credit on that. 3 games your vote's worth 3%. Thanks for your 'deep' insight.

    Another thing: Why post the same review on 3 different versions of a machine when the games have variations depending on the version. Post on the game you actually played ..like doh.

    I just think it hurts the community and the manufactures working hard to bring us joy to not have some kind of professional moderation of the rankings that get displayed. Yes, we can filter by bogus, but these numbers are still included in the averages in the TOP 100.

    Just the facts ma'am! oh, you've played 3 games, alrighty then next witness.

    Mike

    21
    #2 3 months ago

    I don't pay much attention to the top 100 what counts is the pin you enjoy and have fun playing.

    #3 3 months ago
    Quoted from mjruser:

    Hello All,
    I'm not quite sure I understand the rankings of the TOP 100? Medieval Madness is the number one ranked pin and it's 21 years old, I find it hard to believe that a better pin hasn't been released in that time. I had an original MB for 18 years and while I loved it when push came to shove I sold it and kept Twilight Zone which actually has a plunger, 4 flippers, and a rule set that can't be beaten the afternoon you buy it.
    I see folks coming in on new games e.g. Willy Wonka and after playing like 3 games give it a much lower than average rating. Really you can decide on a game in 3 games?
    >> It feels like jealousy to me, I can't have it so I'm going to rate it low.
    Owners and past owners are almost the only reviews worth reading, perhaps the ranking system should give those people 100% vote and then ask everyone how many games they have played on the machine they are reviewing and give them % credit on that. 3 games your vote's worth 3%. Thanks for your 'deep' insight.
    Another thing: Why post the same review on 3 different versions of a machine when the games have variations depending on the version. Post on the game you actually played ..like doh.
    I just think it hurts the community and the manufactures working hard to bring us joy to not have some kind of professional moderation of the rankings that get displayed. Yes, we can filter by bogus, but these numbers are still included in the averages in the TOP 100.
    Just the facts ma'am! oh, you've played 3 games, alrighty then next witness.
    Mike

    Funny, I was just looking at the reviews for Wonka, barely a handful there at this point, at least for the SE.

    #4 3 months ago

    Don’t get hung up on ratings - they mean very little. Play and purchase what you like.

    There are multiple angles at ratings and many “reasons “ why they rate.

    Think about Monster Bash ratings given 10 years ago on Pinside. The rating system has changed over the years - how did Pinside “normalize this?” You would have to clear all ratings and start over.

    This is 1 of many reasons I don’t pay attention to ratings.

    #5 3 months ago

    I understand your perspective but not sure I agree that owners are objective on the pins they own.

    #6 3 months ago
    Quoted from Greenandwhite:

    I understand your perspective but not sure I agree that owners are objective on the pins they own.

    You mix them in with the past owners and I think you get a great perspective overall.

    Cheers!
    Mike

    #7 3 months ago

    People actually read reviews on games?

    John

    #8 3 months ago

    The rankings do not mean which games are best or better. All it means is that a bunch of people agree ( shocking, I know) that those particular games are very good.

    #9 3 months ago

    In comparison, you could hand 100 people in a room a crisp $100 & one or several would criticize or complain. Our dispositions are a contradiction, as this is human nature. People will always have judgment or criticism no matter how phenomenal the person, place, event or machine. To walk a 1000 miles in someone else's shoes....Never mind, I strongly believe that Houdini, SW's & Mustang should be placed in the top 5. Also, GB's, BSD & Ripley's should forever remain outside the top 100. Am I jealous? Absolutely not! I am what I am, said Popeye!

    #10 3 months ago

    We all have different opinions. I wouldn't let it upset you. I think JJP Pirates is the worst piece of trash ever made and other's think it's the best pinball of all time. I also think GB is a great game and other's think it's trash with a horrible layout. We all have different play styles and likes. It's pinball!! Just keep an open mind and don't let the reviews sway your opinion.

    #11 3 months ago

    No Good Gofers should be number 1. change my mind.

    #12 3 months ago
    Quoted from mjruser:

    Owners and past owners are almost the only reviews worth reading,

    I think you can ignore current owners reviews.

    #13 3 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    I think JJP Pirates is the worst piece of trash ever made and other's think it's the best pinball of all time.

    I never understood this type of expression regarding a pinball machine, or any other non-living object for that matter. Maybe you were just being sarcastic. But wow, it's just a game, thats made to entertain us.

    I would only say this when its personal in some way. Dude shot my dog, keyed my car, harmed someone I care about, ect. I think some of us are a little wound tight around here. Have a beer or whatever your poison is and chill out.

    #14 3 months ago
    Quoted from cooked71:

    I think you can ignore current owners reviews.

    I very carefully go through the ratings judging each on its merits.

    There is clearly some manipulation of the ratings going on for financial reasons at a minimum IMHO.

    Play the game if you have the opportunity and judge for yourself.

    #15 3 months ago
    Quoted from mjruser:

    You mix them in with the past owners and I think you get a great perspective overall.
    Cheers!
    Mike

    I don’t agree with this at all. I think.... owners typically pump their own games in any way they can so when they go to sell or trade they feel they are worth more. Most owners never go back and update their price pumping reviews. Game is gone so why bother. Or the owner hated the game, sold it instantly, and gave it a terrible review. Therefore it gives you only a skewed perspective. If you want a fair review read what caucasian2step wrote about it and move on. Many “new” machines move into the 1 spot in the top 100 but they quickly fall out as more players get the chance to play them. It’s just my opinion... but medieval madness is the best pin made. It’s funny, has cool toys, great shots, not too hard not too easy, appeals to all, etc.... I don’t own it. And of course that is just my opinion. Ymmv.

    #16 3 months ago

    Well the jealous ratings from people are offset by the way too high ratings from people that just got the game and are trying to justify it as great when they themselves aren't really too sure if they like it!

    #17 3 months ago

    Top 100 is a guideline at best, and not the rule. Everyone's preferences are different

    #18 3 months ago
    Quoted from jmountjoy111:

    I don’t agree with this at all. I think.... owners typically pump their own games in any way they can so when they go to sell or trade they feel they are worth more.

    ...or people tend to buy games they like?

    #19 3 months ago

    There are many reasons other than the actual merits of the game that influence their reviews of a game. I'm sure jealousy is in that list of reasons somewhere.

    On the flip side some people I'm sure rate the games they currently own as "The greatest game ever! A+++ perfect 10!" just to bump their game higher on the list. Maybe they do that to help the game increase it's actual value? Maybe they're just really happy with their recent purchase and want a way to help justify it.

    Who cares why.

    That's why the list is flawed.

    To see an older game at the top of the list with lots of reviews tells you something.... They're great games that stood the test of time, and deserve to be there.

    As far as hurting the community, and needing professional moderation goes.... I say Bullshit!

    The reader is the moderator. The reader can make their own minds up by reading reviews, and playing the game themselves. They can filter out the biased ones at both ends.

    All the game makers need is to make a good game that people want.

    Lots of new games come out and are immediately ranked at the top of the list. Then as time goes on they always slip lower, and lower down the list because after the honeymoon phase more people play the game, and realize that the game just isn't so good. (I'm looking at you Ghostbusters, and Batman66)

    Don't put much weight on a game's place on that list.

    -Paul

    #20 3 months ago

    I actually like the top 300 (or 400, however high it goes) because I use it as a pinball machine inventory. I don’t really pay attention to the ratings but I like to go through and look for games I haven’t seen or played and try and seek them out. I’ve found some games I like that I didn’t know existed by combing through the list and checking them out.

    #21 3 months ago

    There will always be rankings and reviews of things people like. People are intrigued by it. The pinside top 100 is arguably the greatest pinball ranking system ever devised. Like it or not, it breaks everything down systematically and categorically.
    I am sure there are people that vote their games too high because they own it and some that hate on them as well...that's life.

    If you don't like it, then don't ever click on it.

    #22 3 months ago

    Eh, I think pinball is super subjective, so the low ratings on games can be warranted. For example, I think that Scared Stiff and TOM are stupidly overrated (with their themes carrying the weight), but people love them. But I'm also the kind of person that can have an absolute blast playing Shaq Attaq over a couple of cold ones with some good company. It's all about perspective for me. Unapologetically play what you like!

    #23 3 months ago

    Rating system is skewed badly. It plays into a lot of hype with new games. It doesn't take i to account how games change with code updates. It is biased toward common games.

    Best game of all time is mystery castle. Fight me over it.

    #24 3 months ago
    Quoted from mjruser:

    Hello All,
    I'm not quite sure I understand the rankings of the TOP 100? Medieval Madness is the number one ranked pin and it's 21 years old, I find it hard to believe that a better pin hasn't been released in that time. I had an original MB for 18 years and while I loved it when push came to shove I sold it and kept Twilight Zone which actually has a plunger, 4 flippers, and a rule set that can't be beaten the afternoon you buy it.
    I see folks coming in on new games e.g. Willy Wonka and after playing like 3 games give it a much lower than average rating. Really you can decide on a game in 3 games?
    >> It feels like jealousy to me, I can't have it so I'm going to rate it low.
    Owners and past owners are almost the only reviews worth reading, perhaps the ranking system should give those people 100% vote and then ask everyone how many games they have played on the machine they are reviewing and give them % credit on that. 3 games your vote's worth 3%. Thanks for your 'deep' insight.
    Another thing: Why post the same review on 3 different versions of a machine when the games have variations depending on the version. Post on the game you actually played ..like doh.
    I just think it hurts the community and the manufactures working hard to bring us joy to not have some kind of professional moderation of the rankings that get displayed. Yes, we can filter by bogus, but these numbers are still included in the averages in the TOP 100.
    Just the facts ma'am! oh, you've played 3 games, alrighty then next witness.
    Mike

    Both your rating are highest then my highest rating I do not give 10s or 1s as many do ignore what others do you will be happier

    #25 3 months ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Both your rating are highest then my highest rating I do not give 10s or 1s as many do ignore what others do you will be happier

    I won't rate machines that I don't have a lot of experience with. We've had Iron Maiden for almost a month and I'm still not prepared to rate it yet, it's certainly fast, fun and deep! Going to play Willy Wonka tonight and given it's likely going to be tough to get more than a few games in, I doubt I'll be able to form any kind of opinion with any certainty which would likely make me rate it. It's currently at the top of our wish list, we'll see where it is after tonight.

    Cheers,
    Mike

    #26 3 months ago

    The best thing about this hobby is the variations in opinions/preferences. No pinball machine is truly the best of all time...it's subjective. If people are down-voting games out of jealousy, that's hilarious...but I don't think many people care if their favorite machine isn't #1 or even in the top 10. I know my favorite pin isn't, and it's torn apart justifiably by those who hate it, and it's still my favorite.

    #27 3 months ago

    the whole reason I rank games is cause I look at my top lists and like to know what I like and see it laid out, not so concerned about others ratings, I do enjoy reviews though, I also adjust my ratings regularly when I relplay a game a few times.

    #28 3 months ago
    Quoted from bigdaddy07:

    I never understood this type of expression regarding a pinball machine, or any other non-living object for that matter. Maybe you were just being sarcastic. But wow, it's just a game, thats made to entertain us.
    I would only say this when its personal in some way. Dude shot my dog, keyed my car, harmed someone I care about, ect. I think some of us are a little wound tight around here. Have a beer or whatever your poison is and chill out.

    It's called hyperbole.

    #29 3 months ago

    I've been saying for a long time that there should be two lists, one of people who actually have owned the game and one for the dude who played one at his local chucky cheese or wherever..

    #30 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    I've been saying for a long time that there should be two lists, one of people who actually have owned the game and one for the dude who played one at his local chucky cheese or wherever..

    How would you regulate such a thing? Pinball police? Video cameras on every pinball that track a barstamp tattoo on people's wrists? Fingerprint scanners?

    #31 3 months ago

    It’s about time we get to the bottom of this bullshit

    #32 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    I've been saying for a long time that there should be two lists, one of people who actually have owned the game and one for the dude who played one at his local chucky cheese or wherever..

    People who are financially and emotionally invested in a pin are not going to bad mouth it for a variety of reasons.

    #33 3 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    People who are financially and emotionally invested in a pin are not going to bad mouth it for a variety of reasons.

    I never understood this take. Wouldn’t you only buy games you like and thus rate them higher? It seems less likely someone would buy a machine, hate it and then disingenuously rate it highly.

    #34 3 months ago
    Quoted from Mizzou0103:

    I never understood this take. Wouldn’t you only buy games you like and thus rate them higher? It seems less likely someone would buy a machine, hate it and then disingenuously rate it highly.

    They are going to rate it high to try and resell or don't wish to admit they made a mistake. See it all the time in other fields.

    #35 3 months ago

    I feel the more a machine is reviewed, the better it is. Seems to work for EMs. That would put Fireball #1. Can’t argue there.
    Correction. Looks like it would be Centigrade 37 with 70 reviews

    #36 3 months ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    I feel the more a machine is reviewed, the better it is. Seems to work for EMs. That would put Fireball #1. Can’t argue there.

    I think games that had more units made also tend to have more reviews since more people have played them. Almost everyone has played addams family and TZ...but how many have played TBL??

    #37 3 months ago

    I’m out in left field on SS games. Joker Poker and Whoa Nellie are my two favorites.

    #38 3 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    How would you regulate such a thing? Pinball police? Video cameras on every pinball that track a barstamp tattoo on people's wrists? Fingerprint scanners?

    honor system I guess. I've seen plenty of people post reviews saying the game was fun but left the collection early as it wasn't a keeper etc.

    #39 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    honor system I guess. I've seen plenty of people post reviews saying the game was fun but left the collection early as it wasn't a keeper etc.

    Isn't the "honor system" what is currently used? What's the difference?

    #40 3 months ago
    Quoted from lpeters82:

    ...or people tend to buy games they like?

    That happens sure... but I’d bet that most people, including myself, don’t have the space to keep all the games they like so they move them often. I don’t review games anymore because I honestly like all of them pretty well an felt that I was rating too highly the games I owned. I went back and changed a lot of the ratings I had made but I’m sure I still have some homer reviews in there. However, I think most people, knowing they will eventually sell or trade, build up their current machines. I’m not complaining about it or anything just giving an opinion of why the ratings are skewed

    #41 3 months ago
    Quoted from Daditude:

    Isn't the "honor system" what is currently used? What's the difference?

    I was really just trying to say it would be cool to have a filter so that I could see reviews by people who actually owned a game. I live in the sticks and while we have a great pinball scene in VT we don't always get every pin, so when im deciding my next game I usually look at reviews by people who have actually owned the game. That's really all I meant by my comments.

    #42 3 months ago
    Quoted from Pablito350:

    That's why the list is flawed.

    The list is flawed because we are flawed....

    #43 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    I was really just trying to say it would be cool to have a filter so that I could see reviews by people who actually owned a game. I live in the sticks and while we have a great pinball scene in VT we don't always get every pin, so when im deciding my next game I usually look at reviews by people who have actually owned the game. That's really all I meant by my comments.

    You are more likely to get an honest opinion from someone who doesn't own the game.

    They have no "skin in the game" so to speak. A guy that just spent $7500-$10,000 isn't going to be that honest any more than someone is going to badmouth the new girlfriend or new car.

    My ex was great, at first. Now she is my ex. for good reason. The signs were there and I ignored them or was unwilling to admit them.

    Page through the reviews and look for trends is the best advice I could give you.

    #44 3 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    You are more likely to get an honest opinion from someone who doesn't own the game.
    They have no "skin in the game" so to speak. A guy that just spent $7500-$10,000 isn't going to be that honest any more than someone is going to badmouth the new girlfriend or new car.
    My ex was great, at first. Now she is my ex. for good reason. The signs were there and I ignored them or was unwilling to admit them.

    Man this is spot on stuff.

    #45 3 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    You are more likely to get an honest opinion from someone who doesn't own the game.
    They have no "skin in the game" so to speak. A guy that just spent $7500-$10,000 isn't going to be that honest any more than someone is going to badmouth the new girlfriend or new car.
    My ex was great, at first. Now she is my ex. for good reason. The signs were there and I ignored them or was unwilling to admit them.
    Page through the reviews and look for trends is the best advice I could give you.

    ok then I guess this goes back to my first comment, separate or have a filter by owners and players. At the end of the day its all bullshit anyways. I've played all of the top 10 and while they are great games, there are some on there I would never own. not because they aren't great games in their own right, but because we all have different tastes. You like chocolate I like Vanilla its all relative at the end of the day.

    #46 3 months ago
    Quoted from Schamattack:

    No Good Gofers should be number 1. change my mind.

    Yep ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !

    #47 3 months ago
    Quoted from fisherdaman:

    ok then I guess this goes back to my first comment, separate or have a filter by owners and players. At the end of the day its all bullshit anyways. I've played all of the top 10 and while they are great games, there are some on there I would never own. not because they aren't great games in their own right, but because we all have different tastes. You like chocolate I like Vanilla its all relative at the end of the day.

    Exactly.

    I played Medieval Madness for the first time a few weeks ago, I merely thought it was "ok." Part of that is being unable to hear any sound from the pin as we were in a noisy establishment and how a pin sounds means a great deal to me. I'll refrain from posting a review on that one because I didn't get the full experience, it would not be fair.

    On the other hand I played Munsters at the same place and even though it was noisy thought it was pretty fun. Can't say it was more fun than MM, but maybe not as bad as some people who are hollering about the code are making it out to be.

    #48 3 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    You are more likely to get an honest opinion from someone who doesn't own the game.
    They have no "skin in the game" so to speak. A guy that just spent $7500-$10,000 isn't going to be that honest any more than someone is going to badmouth the new girlfriend or new car.
    My ex was great, at first. Now she is my ex. for good reason. The signs were there and I ignored them or was unwilling to admit them.
    Page through the reviews and look for trends is the best advice I could give you.

    If you never owned the game then chances are you’re going to rate the game on your first impression, and that’s usually a shallow one. Once you buy a game and really play the heck out of it then the rating will be much deeper and you’ll get to hear about the details. I think a lot of games get bad ratings because they were played on location. A lot of games on location just don’t play that great(weak flippers, switch not working, lights out) and can cause false impressions.

    #49 3 months ago

    Current owners’ ratings are the least objective. Bias is a real phenomenon. We pinheads are not immune.

    Here is my somewhat tongue-in-cheek proposal for ratings adjustment:

    -Owned a game, sold it, then rated it- minimal bias, no adjustment necessary
    -Played a game a lot and rated prior to owning- minimal bias, no adjustment necessary
    -Played a game a lot and rated after owning- small bias, reduce rating by 2%
    -Bought a game with little to no prior playing experience then rated it- moderate bias, reduce rating by 5%
    -Bought a game on preorder before anyone had even seen it, much less played it- maximum bias, reduce rating by 10%

    These adjustments may be a bit conservative.

    #50 3 months ago
    Quoted from fattdirk:

    We all have different opinions. I wouldn't let it upset you. I think JJP Pirates is the worst piece of trash ever made and other's think it's the best pinball of all time. I also think GB is a great game and other's think it's trash with a horrible layout. We all have different play styles and likes. It's pinball!! Just keep an open mind and don't let the reviews sway your opinion.

    I think Black Knight Sword of Rage is garbage so i totally understand where u r coming from.

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