Quoted from Thunderbird:Have you actually played STH and seen the projector and upside down UV kit work? None of us have, so how can it be fairly rated???
I rated the Pro and I typically don't include mods in my rankings. Even so, I already have the lighting, playfield artwork, and theme as high marks. If my opinion changes after more plays, I will update it.
Quoted from J85M:No way Jose! What titles do you honestly think Stern have sold 10,000+ units of?
Neither one of us know current day numbers (or will ever know), so this argument is futile.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Neither one of us know current day numbers (or will ever know), so this argument is futile.
No, we don't know 'exact' numbers. We do know it is nowhere near that many for 1 machine. So yes that is enough information.
Quoted from lpeters82:I rated the Pro and gave the lighting and theme integration a high score already.
...but you rated a game that you’ve not played nor seen first hand work? That’s like rating a car without driving it or seeing it first hand.
Quoted from Thunderbird:...but you rated a game that you’ve not played nor seen first hand work? That’s like rating a car you’ve never driven.
I've played the game many times.
Quoted from lpeters82:I've played the game many times.
With the upside down UV kit in it? That’s impossible, no one has. Point taken how silly and irrelevant Top 100 has become. People are rating games they have no idea about the completed product. Thanks for again proving the point of this thread.
Quoted from Thunderbird:With the upside down UV kit in it? That’s impossible, no one has.
No, but I don't include mods in any of my rankings. As noted, I also already gave the game high marks in the categories where the UV kit would affect.
Quoted from lpeters82:No, but I don't include mods in any of my rankings. As noted, I also already gave the game high marks in the categories where the UV kit would affect.
You’re reaching on that one. We all know the UV kit is not a mod. It was printed into the completed play field from day one.
Quoted from Thunderbird:You’re reaching on that one. We all know the UV kit is not a mod. It was printed into the completed play field from day one.
I'm the one reaching?
The talk and ratings of STH is a great example of bashing and why the Pinside Top 100 needs to be fixed badly. A game created by the designer and owner of two of the games in the top 3 spots.
When he was Brian Eddy with B/W as a designer, he could do no wrong, because B/W is a company long gone and did not have the internet to bash the stuffing out of them long ago.
Now the same guy puts out a very similar game to those top 2 ranked games on the Pinside Top 100 and most everyone is blasting his work because he is now designing for Stern. Case closed on this one.
Again STH is a great example of what’s wrong with the current Pinside Top 100 rating system. Haters of Stern are making sure to blast the efforts of the same guy (Brian Eddie) they claim to love and adore from his design work of more than 2 decades ago and yet his newest iteration is nearly the same as AFM and MM. BTW, Brian said that he was trying to emulate those 2 beloved machines designs when he did Stranger Things.
(Haters are going to hate to face the facts...Stern haters, start your down voting frenzy)
Quoted from Zablon:the real intent comes out. You say people can't rate it fairly because it isn't complete, yet you think it should be higher than it is.
I don’t own STH and haven’t played it yet. My real intent is nothing more than to help fix the system, that’s it. Don’t care where any game rating ends up, once the structure is made into a more fair and level rating system.
Quoted from Thunderbird:I don’t own STH and haven’t played it yet. My real intent is nothing more than to help fix the system, that’s it. Don’t care where any game rating ends up, once the system is made into a more level rating field.
In a level rating field, it wouldn't even be on the list. No one is saying it isn't a joke, but your protests in the OP and prior point to a different motive here. You could always create 10000 dummy accounts and rate it 10's. Play the system.
Quoted from Zablon:In a level rating field, it wouldn't even be on the list. Your protests in the OP and prior post give away your real motives here. You could always create 10000 dummy accounts and rate it 10's.
This discussion with you is turning silly, don’t you think?
Quoted from Thunderbird:This discussion with you is turning silly, don’t you think?
This thread is silly. I'm taking it less seriously than I take the top 100.
Quoted from Zablon:This thread is silly. I'm taking it less seriously than I take the top 100.
You’ve taken it seriously enough that you’ve made quite an few posts here, lol.
ALL TOP 100 LISTS ARE A COMPLETE, MEANINGLESS FARCE!
No matter how open minded, all pinheads have a generation preference of pinball, whether it be:
Classic EM
70's EM
solid state
pre DMD fully electronic (System 11 years)
DMD
Modern
That preference will influence anyone's choices for top titles.
Most veteran players and collectors know and accept this.
I know I'm in the minority but I didn't think Thunderbirds was as awful as it's made out to be. Limited play of course, but I finished my games. BBBB is one of the few machines I just plunged it out. Bye Bugs.
So it's better than a couple machines that I see there. But that just like, my opinion man.
Quoted from Thunderbird:You’re reaching on that one. We all know the UV kit is not a mod. It was printed into the completed play field from day one.
If you have to add something to your game from factory then it’s a modification, if you also have to pay for it on top of that it’s most definitely an add-on or mod whatever you want to call it.
And of course the UV ink was printed on the playfields, it would have been a hard sell for a UV kit if there was nothing on the playfield/game that actually reacted to it! 
Quoted from Thunderbird:Top 100 is meaningless, a farce and irrelevant:
Growing tired of the complete joke that the supposed Pinside top 100 has become. It is somewhat irrelevant and serves no real purpose. It needs overhauling badly. Boils down to an owners and haters list. Owners pumping up the ratings and haters trying to bring ratings down on great games. Jurassic Park for example debuted at #1 until the haters started rating it 3’s and 4’s. Same thing happened to POTC and on and on.
That’s why the top 100 should be renamed to “Owners & Haters top 100 bragging & bashing list”. The way it’s setup is near meaningless. Old games and new games should not be on the same list, imo. It is a popularity contest, with new games always being bashed in favor of the old nostalgic games.
It appears to not be based on how good a game is, rather, people hating on Stern, JJP, American Pinball or Spooky.
True top 100 games should be listed in order of sales figures, which we will never know, unless any current pinball company went out of business. Doubt B/W sales figures come any where close to the current day HUO market, as there are so many more potential sales in this market than the old location based regimes of the past.
How do you feel? How should the supposed Top 100 be overhauled? Or are you fine the way it is?
Who cares?
Ratings can be both informative. Breakdown between Game design, art and music etc tells me if it’s a player or a looker. Lots of high rating games score quite lowly on game design and other aspects. When you play them you can often see why.
For LEs I largely assume most ratings are from owners and biased. Who wants to say they paid mega dollars for a turd.
Pro ratings reflect a mix of home, location and casual use so I see them as an assessment of all round appeal. Sometimes you have to see past the early low scores for poor code too.
Once a pin gets a 100 plus ratings it’s score is not going to change much whether you include the outliers or not.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Does anyone disagree with these games and where they are ranked?
Hercules should be lower than Thunderbirds
Quoted from J85M:If you have to add something to your game from factory then it’s a modification, if you also have to pay for it on top of that it’s most definitely an add-on or mod whatever you want to call it.
And of course the UV ink was printed on the playfields, it would have been a hard sell for a UV kit if there was nothing on the playfield/game that actually reacted to it!
Really trying to justify your post of it being a mod. It is not a mod and any reasonable person knows that. It’s a coded part of the game. Mods are not ever coded into a game.
I also think people get hung up on where a game falls in the ranking. For me, anything above a 7.0 in MY RANKINGS is a game I would consider adding to my collection. I gave Stranger Things a 7.2. It's below a number of games on my list, but it's still a decent game.
Also to the OP, have you used the custom settings in the ranking system. You can remove the most extreme scores and sort by manufacturer or dates.
Quoted from rennervision:I'll never understand why Fireball isn't even in the TOP 100 for EM machines!
Not enough people rate EMs.
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Does anyone disagree with these games and where they are ranked?[quoted image]
Only with Playboy 25th. The rest can stay right there.
Quoted from Gryszzz:I know I'm in the minority but I didn't think Thunderbirds was as awful as it's made out to be. Limited play of course, but I finished my games. BBBB is one of the few machines I just plunged it out. Bye Bugs.
So it's better than a couple machines that I see there. But that just like, my opinion man.
It’s the Ford Edsel of it’s generation.
Quoted from snyper2099:Only with Playboy 25th. The rest can stay right there.
BBBB actually has some good music and speech call outs...
Quoted from Gryszzz:I know I'm in the minority but I didn't think Thunderbirds was as awful as it's made out to be. Limited play of course, but I finished my games. BBBB is one of the few machines I just plunged it out. Bye Bugs.
So it's better than a couple machines that I see there. But that just like, my opinion man.
You are lucky enough not to have had any interaction with the owner of Homepin or the promoter @wiredoug. There have been some terrible responses from these guys on social forums. That alone is minus 5 full points in the ratings.
Game itself is not too bad, build quality is very good, I think.
Quoted from Thunderbird:Yes, know these numbers and what does that prove (think your numbers are off some)? We don’t know the numbers of current day manufacturers, but the current day home market is many times that of location based arcades of the past.
This whole statement is incorrect.
Quoted from Thunderbird:If it can be made more fair, why wouldn’t Pinside change it?
Hell if I can figure what you think more "fair" is, other than sales numbers which you already acknowledged aren't public.
What in your mind would make ranking "more fair"?
Quoted from Mitch:This whole statement is incorrect.
How is this incorrect? Are there not many more potential home sales than arcades? Most every city has thousands and thousands of homes and maybe 1 arcade.
2020’s by in large market place is the home, not the quite small and dwindling arcade market.
Quoted from Jmckune:I mean if there’s not a single version of STH that can be bought from the factory with the UV kit pre installed, LE be dammed, it’s a mod. You don’t have to change any coding on WH2O for the Bigfoot hotfoot/spotlight. That’s definitely a mod though.
The point of this thread is not about a discussion of what is a mod or what isn’t. (We all know the coding in the upside down aspect of STH is incredibly different and inclusive of the UV kit, not a mod by any stretch of the definition, as it was planned and part of the game from the beginning. The example you’re using is an actual mod of a light showing on BF, not considered nor part of the original game and planning. Be reasonable, please.
Quoted from jfesler:Hell if I can figure what you think more "fair" is, other than sales numbers which you already acknowledged aren't public.
What in your mind would make ranking "more fair"?
Please read all earlier ideas and suggestions in this thread from myself and different people.
Quoted from Mitch:This whole statement is incorrect.
Could you please enlighten us all?
Quoted from Thunderbird:Really trying to justify your post of it being a mod. It is not a mod and any reasonable person knows that. It’s a coded part of the game. Mods are not ever coded into a game.
Honestly I’m not really trying at all, Stern are simply dipping their toe into gameplay related mods, they already dipped their toe and then jumped right on in after the success they had selling art blades, then toppers and then shooter rods, the next step was always going to be game related add-ons/mods that no one else can do but them.
Also the definition of a mod/modification relating to the action of modifying/adding to something is "the parts supplied should fit with little or no modification". That pretty much describes the UV kit perfectly.
Long before I joined Pinside I used to look at the top 100, and top 100 comments to help me decide what game I may want to buy, since no where in 150 miles at the time to try one for myself.
Once I joined Pinside, and finally after a long time became active in forums, I learned how different everyone is.
Now, I never pay any attention to the ratings anymore. I sold 2 top 15 rated games I was tired of to get Oktoberfest and Houdini, and I am glad I did.
Every Monday I look at the new top 100 list for entertainment only now. I hope it never goes away, because long ago, before I joined Pinside, the top 100 and comments that goes along with it helped me get a couple games I still have. (Met prem, and TWD pro).
And I am so glad I paid attention to the ratings and got a JJPOTCSE while I could.
Arcade games are getting popular again also. I really wish Pinside would do a top 100 with comments for arcade games. I know my next purchase will be a 2020 Golden Tee home edition, and most likely after that a Hot Wheels pinball.
I don’t see anything wrong with it. Use it as a educational tool to find out more about a particular game. The ratings are what they are but it’s not the Bible written in stone type of deal. Learn and form your own opinions about the games that interest you.
Someone mentioned TAF being a flop in the bar scene in the 90s . I have to agree . 2 bars that I frequented in those days had the game . Everyone , I mean everyone hated it . In a matter of time they were replaced with faster playing games , which bar ppl preferred .
And to add , top 100 is flawed . STAR WARS should be # 1
Quoted from Thunderbird:The talk and ratings of STH is a great example of bashing and why the Pinside Top 100 needs to be fixed badly. A game created by the designer and owner of two of the games in the top 3 spots.
When he was Brian Eddy with B/W as a designer, he could do no wrong, because B/W is a company long gone and did not have the internet to bash the stuffing out of them long ago.
Now the same guy puts out a very similar game to those top 2 ranked games on the Pinside Top 100 and most everyone is blasting his work because he is now designing for Stern. Case closed on this one.
Again STH is a great example of what’s wrong with the current Pinside Top 100 rating system. Haters of Stern are making sure to blast the efforts of the same guy (Brian Eddie) they claim to love and adore from his design work of more than 2 decades ago and yet his newest iteration is nearly the same as AFM and MM. BTW, Brian said that he was trying to emulate those 2 beloved machines designs when he did Stranger Things.
(Haters are going to hate to face the facts...Stern haters, start your down voting frenzy)
you sure know a lot for being a new guy! 
The top 100 is definitely meaningful and a decent representation of how the community rates games. I read it like the IMDB top 250 movies: the latest blockbusters will not be accurate, so you have to take those ratings with a grain.
The one massive flaw that robin implemented, that makes the list far, far worse, is choosing LE ratings for games rather than an average rating between pro, prem & LE. This means that almost all Stern games are solely rated by home owners, when the pros are the most played pinball machines on the planet. Averaging the ratings makes way more sense than the logic that we should rate them only on the supposed "best" version of the game. This goes for JJP's games as well.
Quoted from orangegsx:Has anyone ever seen these two people in the same room together?[quoted image][quoted image]
I had always heard that toilets in Japan were strange, but damn.
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