Ditch the number of posts idea, you will be right back to where you are starting from. Some guys will abuse it.

Don't you want quality over quantity?

You're beginning to head in the right direction. Get rid of karma. Someone will come up with a better idea here, to get rid of useless posts.

Hi Robin, It's a good start I guess. The -2 for thumbs down might promote the negativity you're trying to avoid though. Example, If I were to disagree with an opinion, I could punish the person I didn't agree with and then I'd get retaliation. Human nature is that way. Sounds like some massaging of this idea is in order, just not sure where to look. IMHO, I don't think this type of point system, given by peers, will give anyone a sense of where someone stands with the community as a whole. Perhaps a rating by mods but submitted by the community? (as if there wasn't enough pressure on the mods already). If you have to have a rating system here, I would rather be considered a 5 star poster with great content in my posts over a 1 star poster with a lot of "me too's". Hopefully, someone will come up with the magic idea for you to impliment.

1 point per post is fair. I'd go higher with a thumbs up -- a good post deserves more points. I don't think a point deduction should result from a thumbs down, however. Too many agendas and wars will result.

OT posts = no karma. This may end some of the endless rants.

I really like the karma system. All others are good suggestions, and it's a good time to refresh the rules!

I would trade all my karma points for a cheeseburger.

One thing I was contemplating, does the thumb up/down feature encourage snarky posts and a ganging up mentality?

I agree thumbs up should be more rewarding. I also agree that thumbs down can promote negativity and retaliation but I like the thumbs down vote option, so I suggest a thumbs down vote should cost that person 1 point of their own karma to apply -1 to the thumbs down. That way they have to think before they vote thumbs down and really really disagree with the posters thoughts.

And I like the term 'karma points' for what it's worth.

Now this is an idea worth looking at. Kind of a pay to play format, it might work.

Maybe a thumbs up should cost the person that hands it out a point. It would be a sort of currency.
IMO the bandwagon posting is more of a problem than the thumbing down posts.

This was mentioned elsewhere, but what about ditching the points entirely. Maybe add a "signed up" date, or integrate a rating into the thumbs up/down / tilts a person receives.

Ah, but how do you earn this currency? Who is the employer? Just playing Devil's advocate here.

Karma pts for donations. Now that makes sense.

What ever gets decided, I'd rather see it appear on each persons "profile" page rather than repeated on each post they make.

Ratio is probably more important than raw total points...

Overall, I don't know what to think. For most of us, the karma point system is just kind of a fun little thing of little importance...so I don't know if I care one way or the other.

It is pretty evident that some take it a lot more seriously than I do, though...

Pete

1 point per post plus any thumb up is 1 point, but the person handing out the point has a point subtracted.

Okay, following you, what happens when you run out of points when you hand them all out? How do you get more, beg for them on a street corner? I can guarantee that I'll make no points standing under/near a red light.

I agree in that the joined date would be a nicer feature to show on every post, and the points could be in their profile information.

Also, I would love to see the date that a post is made be on every post. That way when you go back and search for something it does not say 2 years ago but instead would say August 3, 2011.

You get a point everytime you post so you could only hand out thumbs up when you have at least one point.

I gave you a thumbs up for this...

...while I still can.

=)

Count me among those who couldn't care less about the karma system. You can tell pretty quickly who is worth conversing with and who is not, without the needs for scores. Honestly, high 'pkp' numbers to me indicate 'spends too much time on the computer' LOL

LOL, ditto for you

Wouldn't/couldn't this be abused with a lot of those "me too" posts to earn a quick point? I thought the idea was to avoid that if possible.

Hi Larry, good to see you here. Back to our scheduled point discussion.

I'm not sure if someone touched on this, but doesn't having an opportunity to use a "thumbs down" button just promote negativity?
If you like it, press "thumbs up", if you don't agree or like it, just don't post anything or ignore it, or post a reason why you disagree.
I'd also like to add that I really don't pay attention to the point system either...

And in the end Robin, this is your website, and we all know you will do what's best.

I am more concerned with the tone of the site than cheap point earning. If somebody posts something that badgers or demeans somebody else and others pile on or encourage it then it is bad for Pinside. We don't need that kind of backslapping to feel good about ourselves. I just want to talk pinball.

+1

Thumbs up/down can be silly at times... Folks say "TFLE sucks" & then receive 4 thumbs down.

The only way to get tons of thumbs up is to praise everything & everyone = less than honest environment.

On the other hand I think thumbs up/down are cool because you can say "congrats" or "I agree" or "I do not agree" without cluttering up the thread.

Maybe remove points for posting & 1pt for a thumbs up

I almost never thumbs down because I thinks it's kinda childish

Then again I've been know to act immature

Or just remove scoring all together & show a post count, join date, donation, operator/player/retailer title & call it done. You can keep the thumbs but give them no value...

Just a thought.

BTW, love your avatar. Pleasantville with a lot of small talk? , some for pinball ... okay, wake me up to let me know how that works. Myself, I'd rather chuck the whole point system, I have no ego to stroke. PKP may have been fine when this site first was getting going but it's much bigger than that now, I doubt it would be missed by any of the contributors of substance. If there is no point system, it can't be abused in any way.

Saying something sucks without giving specific reasons is not good form. All it does is incite both sides. Also, it is sort of ridiculous to say any modern Stern sucks since any of them compare favorably to a about 90% of the pinball machines ever made.

I'm a little lost here. Are you referring to me in your statements?

I'm another vote for disbanding the pkp or Karma rating. Keeping thumbs up or down is fine but make them valueless.

Posting profile should be name or handle, date Pinside was joined and location. Donation heart is good too.

I'd also like to see people be encouraged to sign their name at the end of each post but that's another topic.

Kim

What about their name under/next to their handle/moniker.

Signing every post (to me) seems somewhat redundant, since your moniker identifies who you are on every post.

I'm taking real good care of Joker Poker, thanks again Kim.

Brian

No, pinballwizard79 mentioned it. My post locked up and took too long.

A real name hopefully... It personalizes things and might make someone hesitate before posting something nasty. Also responding to a person with a name humanizes the comment as well. Know what I mean, jonogo.

I gave you a pointless thumbs up Brian.

Kim

You da man! But no cheese for my burger.

Brian

LOL, okay. I thought we were having a, um, pleasant discussion. For what it's worth, I agree with your post, I don't like arguing for the heck of it or to try and light a fire. However, discussions are good and might help Robin decide how to proceed. I believe that's why he started this thread.

For the record, I also don't care about the points one way or the other. I was just trying to help with ideas if a points system remains.

Kim, I agree whole-heartedly with the real name tie-in idea. I was merely suggesting making it part of the users icon/avatar/dealybob to the left there as opposed to signing each post with it.

Interesting fact... I've had more than a couple people call me Jonogo in person.

-josh

Buy your Thumbs. $10 to Pinside gets you 25 "Thumbs"....then use them however you wish. If you run out...buy more. This way...if you MUST Thumb, It'll cost ya...and help Pinside.

That's what it's all about. You never know, you might be sitting on the answer to the problem and if you don't speak up, it'll never get solved.
Steve (for Kim, he's an odd duck I've known for years )

Where's the gif? Do we have to pay for that too?

Ok, yes. $10 gets 25 gifs.

I couldn't care less about karma/points. They're utterly meaningless. Ted has 145,767, and ... ?

Don't care about his score, don't care about mine. It's a little useful to tell the vets from the noobs, but being around for a long time doesn't mean you're a great poster, and everyone who is great has to start sometime.

That said, I love the thumbs up and thumbs down functionality. It's a way to tell people you appreciated the point they made, without having to quote them and say something useless like "Nice post". Same with the thumbs down really. They keep threads free of noise.

I enjoy seeing that someone liked my point when they vote on it. But the effect on some total score just doesn't mean anything to me. I don't think "yes! I'm one point higher than I was before!" Especially as I can make a stupid post anywhere and get the equivalent of 15 people thinking I just made a brilliant post. That seems incredibly out of balance if I did care about the points.

The worst thing about the thumbs down is people use it against others no matter what they post. You see people get into a disagreement and then one person goes and thumbs down every single post the other makes no matter what it says.

This is the best thing about thumbs up, anyone else remember when you would see a bunch of replies to a post with just a +1? Seems like it does eliminate those needless posts.

How about instead of thumbs up and thumbs down we eliminate them and instead use something else? How about "I agree" and "I found this helpful". "I agree" could cut down on all of the +1 replies and the "I found this helpful" could be useful in tech threads.

Eliminating the thumbs down will cut down on negativity, I never used them unless someone was being xenophobic or homophobic.

I do like the idea of knowing how long someone has been on pinside.

Ok more thoughts and an idea.

As far as the Karma goes it can be a good indicator of how active you are, but maybe its not the best indictor of how HELPFUL you are.

Quick story: Recently I made a offhanded post to someone that if they have too many pins to store in their house they can always store one in mine. I made this as a total joke. Later that day I get a PM from a local pinsider I have never met with an offer: I take one of his pins home (he has a bunch in storage he has not had time work on, I shop it out and fix it up (he pays for parts I offer labor for free because its fun for me), then I get to hold on to it for a while and play it. This is a great opportunity for me as I have space but no money to buy a new pin. Also its a pin I would not be able to afford anytime soon. He said he had looked back through my old posts and thought that I looked like I was helpful and a nice guy and felt comfortable making me this offer.

How about this, a system where we can "vouch" for someone? Maybe something on a pinsiders profile page but a little indicator in the posts to show how many "vouch points" that person has. Did someone send you a part for free? Sell you a machine at a great price and it was a smooth transaction? Did someone come over and help you troubleshoot something out of the kindness of their heart (or for beer)? Maybe they invited you over to play some pins and you had a great time. Or did someone just go above and beyond in really sticking with you through a tech thread? You can go to that persons page and give a little write up to say that they were a good seller, or buyer, or helpful or whatever. That way when you want to deal with someone you may not know you can see that others have before and had a good experience. I can think of ten people I would do that for on here.

Ted, you can trade your karma pts for gifs. Then when you get below 100k, you can have another party.

I dont like the thumbs down having a negative point value. I will readily admit that on the few thumbs down I have gotten, I get sad or mad as if they'd just yelled at me or something. I am sure I am over sensitive and just overly worry about it, but I do sit there and wonder what I did or said to make them hit that button. I know you guys probably dont have that issue and dont care, as some of you have stated, but I think it does give the potential for bad feelings if used to gang up on or pile-on someone. I dont think it has happened in awhile, but I have seen a few members get 'stalked' by someone where every single post they make gets a thumbs down.

Get rid of the karma, get rid of the thumbs down, keep the thumbs up, and get me
a cheesburger!

I would like to see the points be replaced with the year joined and some sort of identifier like:
Active user, Hyperactive user, Hypoactive user

Basically, one thing I actually like as a latent effect of Karma points is I can see who is an established member which is nice. I am not saying that low points mean anything bad but rather that more points tell me that someone is an active member of this community and is established (for good or bad) so I can easily see who I am dealing with when making a trade/sale/purchase or inviting someone over to my house to hang out and play when they roll through town.

Thumbs completely removed from from any points stuff would be cool also. I like the thumbs up feature and it actually keeps me from posting as much (believe it or not) as it is used in place of the +1 or "I agree" many times. No need to associate thumbs with points. They are communication and not a reward for me.