(Topic ID: 145040)

Pinscore Displays MMPM... Fixed!


By Hop-Pac

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 51 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Enaud
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Player_2_UNplugged.jpg
ALL_Plugged_In.jpg

There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

I have a Bally Mr & Mrs Pac-Man. I bought these about a year ago and cant get them to work. I have Alltek MPU, Lamp Driver, and Solenoid Driver Boards. I also have a New Dash 54 Rectifier Board. I have tried these with 2 different Alltek MPUs, with the original Solenoid Driver and Alltek, and with original Rectifier board and new Dash 54 Board. I have left in the high voltage fuse (F2 on Rec board) and pulled it. All have the same results.ALL Plugged In.jpg In this pic, ALL displays are Pinscore and PLUGGED IN. The 2 right displays show six zeros and do not change. The left side shows NO millionth place, but the other 6 places change.Player 2 UNplugged.jpg This pic shows the top right display (Player 2) Unplugged. the remaining displays function normally. I've talked to Marco & Alltek to try to fix and can't. Can anyone else offer a solution, or even a place to start from here?

#2 4 years ago

Would anyone know who I can talk to for help?

#3 4 years ago

That display is crocked.
Swap player 3 and 4 displays to see if the issue follows, but I'd say it has an issue that is bringing down the other displays.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#4 4 years ago

I think it was Pinscore displays, installed them, and I remember a problem similar, related to a bad ribbon cable, which was brand new. switch the cables around and see what happens.

#5 4 years ago

I forgot to mention, I switched all displays in all slots. Meaning I rotated each display in each player slot. Same results. I also took all 4 displays and individually placed only one at a time in each slot... all displays functioned fine. They have all been in each slot. Work fine. The issue is when all four are plugged in as in the pic

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from sparks666666:

I think it was Pinscore displays, installed them, and I remember a problem similar, related to a bad ribbon cable, which was brand new. switch the cables around and see what happens.

No ribbon cables in this game. They are all wired in a series

#7 4 years ago

After reading all this, the problem statement sounds like;

When player 3 is connected, the other three displays show bad information.

Correct?

And you rotated all displays into slot 3 and the problem stays with slot 3?

And you are correct, most old Ballys did not use ribbon cables to the displays. That does not rule out an issue on the CPU, but you state 2 MPU's. What was the original problem with the glass displays that made you update? Did it have the same problem?

#8 4 years ago

Original displays work fine. The change was just for appearance. But the originals will wear out eventually, then I will be totally screwed.
The problem is when ALL are plugged in. If I only plug in the top right (or any other) by itself, it works fine.
I tried with my Alltek MPU, sent it in for evaluation. They sent me a new one, updated version. The problem remains.

#9 4 years ago

Any instructions that came with the display set to tell you to remove a jumper on any of the individual displays?

#10 4 years ago

Only jumper is for whether you want commas or not

#11 4 years ago

Confusing questions coming up, sorry...

If you have all displays plugged in, the displays fail. If you unplug player 2, the other displays work OK. If you unplug any of the other displays instead, does the problem go away?

If you swap display 2 with 3, and try all of the above again, what happens? Does unplugging display 2 bring the other displays to life, or do you need to unplug display 3 to do that?

#12 4 years ago

Player 2 (Top Right) is the problem. When it is plugged in, all of the displays don't work. (See pics in post #1) However, when all are unplugged except Player 2 (Top Right), it functions properly.

#13 4 years ago

Hmm, that doesn't seem to answer either of the questions precisely. It's hard to troubleshoot this kind of thing remotely, unfortunately.

Taking things one step at a time, starting with question #1: 'If you unplug any of the other displays instead, does the problem go away? Or does it only go away if you unplug display 2?'

#14 4 years ago

Sorry. Part 1 - No. Problem does not go away. Part 2 - Yes. It only goes away when display 2 (top right) is unplugged

#15 4 years ago

OK, good - so we know that the problem is specific either to the display panel currently at P2, or the cabling specific to P2. It's probably not the driver(s) not being able to supply enough current to run all the panels, or removing any display should have brought the otherones to life. Progress!

Now - how about swapping the P2 and P3 displays? I'm choosing P3 to swap with as it's a bit less likely to be at the beginning or end of the bus. Once you swap, do you still see the same failure?

#16 4 years ago

OP, did you try contacting Pinscore?

#17 4 years ago

Swapping doesn't change anything. The problem is still there.
The displays are wired in a series in this order. Driver Board (back box) - Player 3 (lower left) - Player 1 (upper left) - Credit Display (center) - Player 2 (top right) - Player 4 (bottom right) - Playfield Display. So the problem display is in the middle of the string.

#18 4 years ago

(Aside - Talking to Pinscore isn't a bad idea, maybe they've seen this behavior before?)

Right, I didn't expect just swapping the displays to change anything. Now, we need to find out what change makes the problem go away. If you unplug P2, or P3, which one of those makes the other displays work OK?

Re the order - it's unlikely that the position on the bus would make any difference. Probably best just not to worry about that.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Hop-Pac:

Swapping doesn't change anything. The problem is still there.

What we are looking for is more precision in the problem description and your answers. It helps us determine the right next steps. For instance, when you say, "the problem is still there", do you mean that after swapping display 2 with display 3, none of the displays show the 7th digit?

Another way of saying this is, "no matter which display is connected to which player position, when all four displays are connected, the 7th digit is never displayed". correct?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#20 4 years ago

Unplug P2 makes others work ok

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

What we are looking for is more precision in the problem description and your answers. It helps us determine the right next steps. For instance, when you say, "the problem is still there", do you mean that after swapping display 2 with display 3, none of the displays show the 7th digit?
Another way of saying this is, "no matter which display is connected to which player position, when all four displays are connected, the 7th digit is never displayed". correct?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Correct

#22 4 years ago

OK, so even after swapping the displays between P2 and P3, it's still P2 that takes the displays down. Suggests a problem with the loom associated with P2 then, perhaps.

Next thing I'd do is carefully check the power supply voltage at the displays. It might be just on the edge of coping. This doesn't sound that likely, to be honest, but it's easy to check, so might as well do it before anything further. The new displays may load down the 5V line a lot more than the original ones, though I haven't looked at what they use to drive the LEDs themselves. At least you don't have to worry about the high voltage lines.

Then, I'd go over the display loom, connectors etc very carefully visually and probably with a continuity tester, and make sure everything's as it should be. No lines shorted to anything else, and no connectors (damned IDC things) have gone bad, come loose, wires dropped out, etc. Also - I wouldn't assume the fault is necessarily anywhere near P2. It could be anywhere on that bus, including at/near the playfield display. You shouldn't try moving the loom around gently while the machine's running to see if the displays flicker, come up, die again etc. (I would definitely do this, but I'm an idiot. Try at your own risk...)

Is this the kit you bought?
http://www.pinscore.com/products/pinball-displays/38-ps-2518-display-set-c

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from falco:

so even after swapping the displays between P2 and P3, it's still P2 that takes the displays down.

That's not what I drew from the OPs last response when he answered "yes" to this statement...

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Another way of saying this is, "no matter which display is connected to which player position, when all four displays are connected, the 7th digit is never displayed". correct?

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

OP, did you try contacting Pinscore?

No better person to ask than the people who made them.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

That's not what I drew from the OPs last response when he answered "yes" to this statement...

Hmm, I was guessing, I must admit. However:

Quoted from Hop-Pac:

Swapping doesn't change anything. The problem is still there.

and

Quoted from Hop-Pac:

Unplug P2 makes others work ok

suggests

Quoted from falco:

after swapping the displays between P2 and P3, it's still P2 that takes the displays down.

I guessed that he swapped the displays, it didn't make a difference, and then unplugging P2 (the old P3 display) still brought all other displays up OK. I think my logic is OK, but my assumptions may not be. But you're right, his answer to your question seems to contradict what I'm thinking. More clarification needed.

#26 4 years ago

Here's a couple of true/false questions for the OP.

True or False, "Only by disconnecting whatever display is at the player two position do the remaining displays work correctly".

True or False, "Disconnecting whatever display is at position one, three, or four, allows the other displays to work correctly".

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#27 4 years ago

Sorry for the confusion. To answer your True/False... #1 True #2 False

The problem is when whatever display is plugged into Player 2, the result is Pic #1 in first post. That pic was taken during display test from coin door. All digits should read "5"

I hope this can clear up any confusion. I really appreciate the help.

I think falco has the right idea. I took a break from it for Thanksgiving (and to walk away from it for a while). Gonna get back to it now that the holiday is over

#28 4 years ago

Taking a break from an annoying problem - excellent idea. Reduces frustration and gives time for fresh ideas to form. Let us know how you get on.

#29 4 years ago

Contact Pinscore

#30 4 years ago

Contacted Pinscore. They are leaning towards a wiring issue. After all the things I've tried, I am starting to think that too. Has any other Mr & Mrs PacMan owners tried to change their displays, have you had any issues?

I've noticed during the display test from the coin door, that some of the playfield lights are blinking. Seems to be random, not the same ones every time. They are all LEDs. Don't know if this is related or power bleeding to the lower voltage LEDs. Anybody have any suggestions on where to start checking wires?

#31 4 years ago

I had same game with the same pinscore problem, what you need to do is un-daisy chain the displays, I can't remember which wires, but each display has has one wire specific to that display even tho they run to all the displays.
What I did was to cut the wire for display 1 at display 1 and so on, and this fixed this problem. When I had talked with Brett @ pinscore
he didn't have a solution either.

-1
#32 4 years ago

Cutting wires scares me. Do you still have the game? Can you specifically tell me which wires or how you went about finding which wires?

#33 4 years ago

Any chance of going back to the original plasma displays?

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Hop-Pac:

I've noticed during the display test from the coin door, that some of the playfield lights are blinking. Seems to be random, not the same ones every time. They are all LEDs.

Unless you installed some sort of LED support (resistors, Altek lamp driver, etc,,) you will get flicker/ghosting on Bally.

Quoted from wdennie:

I had same game with the same pinscore problem, what you need to do is un-daisy chain the displays, I can't remember which wires, but each display has has one wire specific to that display even tho they run to all the displays.

And there is your fix. Time to start looking at prints. I don't have a Pac set handy. Maybe tomorrow if I get time I'll look at the display wiring.

#35 4 years ago

No I no longer have the game, but I went to the wiring diagrams to be able to identify which ones controled each display.

#36 4 years ago

I don't have the wiring diagram

#37 4 years ago

Is it a "One of these things is not like the others" type of deal?

#39 4 years ago

Once I have 5 minutes to myself, I'll do the homework and let you know what needs to be cut/changed.

#40 4 years ago

Its been probably 4 years since I had Mr & mrs pacman, but a do remimber having the same problems, can't believe no one else has run into this, and it just seems to be only pacman, because I've used pinscores in other early SS games with no problems.
1 pinscore would work right 2 displays would screw up 3rd, 4th wouldn't work at all etc, and moving displays around only change where the problem was.
I down loaded the wiring diagram for IPDB, broke down what wire control what function for each display, and just logically determined which wires were causing the problem at each display and found if I metholical went from dislay 1-4 ended fixing the problem.
If you go to pinball owners data base, I'm a member "wdennie", and in my pic's you'll see games sold pic's of pacman, and you can see the displays are pinscore and are all 4 lite with 0000000's

#41 4 years ago

Any update?

#42 4 years ago

Sorry not yet. I downloaded the wiring diagram from Patofnaud's post (Thank You), but haven't looked at it yet. Busy with work and Christmas coming. Will post when I make some progress. Thanks for the lead.

#43 4 years ago

I've done the same. Just no time to analyze. On my todo list.

3 weeks later
#44 4 years ago

Got some time off work next week. Going to give my machine a good cleaning and try to fix this display issue.

#45 4 years ago

Printed out all the parts of the manual pertinent to this, sat them on my desk and forgot all about this thread. DOH....

I'll try looking when I get home tomorrow.

#46 4 years ago

I see two areas to concentrate on...

1) The 7th digit is not working on any of the displays when all Pinscore. I'm wondering if there is an issue with the daisy chained pin 12 harness as this is the control line for this digit. A marginal issue that the Pinscore displays cannot handle as well.
2) The issue gets worse with displays further down the daisy chain. Evident with the last two daisy chained displays (P2 and P4) stuck at zero. I wonder if you remove just Pinscore at P4, will that also produce correct remaining displays (same response as removing P3)? This would point to a loading issue due to poor connection within the harness (probably pin 12 again). One of the wire to connector interfaces may have many wire strands broke or oxidized. I'd try running a jumper wire from Pin 12 on P3 (first in the chain) to pin 12 on P4 (last in the chain) gets rid of the issue.

#47 4 years ago

I am sorry if this was mentioned already - just did a quick scan through the post...

I switched to LED displays in an Eight Ball with the same type of issue. The end result was a broken wire in the harness (in series) between the displays.

Checked continuity between each display one at a time to diagnose.

I also might suggest nice shiny new trifurcon connector pins in ALL 5 of the 20 pin connectors to go with those nice new displays!

-scott

#48 4 years ago

Ok. I give. This is CLEARLY out of my league. I'm calling it.

1 year later
#49 2 years ago

Just bringing this back to document the fix. Thank You to Pinsider ecto1a2003 for sending me the solution.

Pull the wire out of the IDC connector at pin 11 on the score displays. Do not cut the wire. Just pull it out.

Displays work and look great!

#50 2 years ago

Thanks man, i got lucky. i didn't even know this thread was here.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 90.00
$ 90.00
Lighting - Led
Geeteoh Electronics
$ 119.95
Boards
Allteksystems
From: $ 45.00
Displays
PinballSolutions.eu
$ 44.99
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
€ 3.95
Flipper Parts
Multigame
$ 149.00
From: $ 14.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
$ 17.00
There are 51 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside