(Topic ID: 132417)
Marshville, NC
Toronto, ON
HUO is a mostly bogus title anyway. If it is not a single owner newer game it is most likely not truly HUO anyway. As to your specific question, the current definition of HUO means that it has not been routed. Taking a pin to a convention or a tournament is not routing. The machine would still be "HUO".
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Such pins aren't strictly used "in the home", so not home use only. Such pins are also subject to heavy play and more abuse.
that's how I feel but I see pins advertised as HUO but then the seller states it was at a convention so I just wanted to hear some thoughts on it
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Such pins aren't strictly used "in the home", so not home use only. Such pins are also subject to heavy play and more abuse.
It's all BS.
1) Every game has been played to some degree in the factory for testing purposes ... probably much more so then it would be played for a day or two at a show.
2) Whether a game has ever been taken to a show or not can never be proven so what's the point? You can produce a receipt that you purchased the game directly but how can you ever prove that you never took it to a show? You can't. Thus, no game can ever be proven to be HUO if this is how you define HUO.
3) The whole point of the HUO moniker is to give a better idea on the condition of the game. I.e. was it routed or was it not?? So to argue whether or not a day at a pinball show descredits the HUO label is flat out dumb.
Quoted from PinChili:It's all BS.
1) Every game has been played to some degree in the factory for testing purposes ... probably much more so then it would be played for a day or two at a show.
2) Whether a game has ever been taken to a show or not can never be proven so what's the point? You can produce a receipt that you purchased the game directly but how can you ever prove that you never took it to a show? You can't. Thus, no game can ever be proven to be HUO if this is how you define HUO.
3) The whole point of the HUO moniker is to give a better idea on the condition of the game. I.e. was it routed or was it not?? So to argue whether or not a day at a pinball show descredits the HUO label is flat out dumb.
well if the question is dumb then move onto the next topic. I was just wondering what others thought about the topic. Negative comments such as your third point is not necessary
Quoted from J_Striker:well if the question is dumb then move onto the next topic. I was just wondering what others thought about the topic. Negative comments such as your third point is not necessary
I was simply responding to someone else's post, not you!
If you're so curious about other's thoughts you might want to search first on the topic (which has been discussed previously in hundreds of threads here) instead of starting the same old debate again.
"H"= Home
"O"= only.
only= means just that. so if it is used OUTSIDE of a HOME, its not home use "only". even if you take it to a show, school event for the kids, tournament, etc.
doesnt matter if on free play in those realms or coin drop. the word "USE" doesn't pend if coin operated or free play.
wth is the difference? its being played.
why would "USE" pend if money was inserted?
BTW- some home owners smoke, drink, party in their house and dont keep their games shopped or take care of them.
so the term HUO is useless.
what matters is number of plays and condition.
id take a ROUTE game over a HUO game any day if it was taken care of properly (like mine)
Quoted from PinChili:Here we go even yet again.
Make a poll.
Is whatever persons home the location of the event? No HUO for them!!!!!!!
Quoted from J_Striker:well if the question is dumb then move onto the next topic. I was just wondering what others thought about the topic. Negative comments such as your third point is not necessary
Yeah, it was kinda dumb but we will give some honest answers, Big Bro Hug?
a house is a house. if you have a tourney at your house, bday party, halloween party, graduation party, thanksgiving, christmas, adult party, coming out party...whatever.
its still in your HOUSE.
so yeah, its still HUO.
doesnt matter if 10 million people come to your house and play it, break it, trash it, burn it.
its still HUO.
that is exactly why that term needs to disappear.
people only use it to get more money period.
Quoted from PinChili:It's all BS.
1) Every game has been played to some degree in the factory for testing purposes ... probably much more so then it would be played for a day or two at a show.
2) Whether a game has ever been taken to a show or not can never be proven so what's the point? You can produce a receipt that you purchased the game directly but how can you ever prove that you never took it to a show? You can't. Thus, no game can ever be proven to be HUO if this is how you define HUO.
3) The whole point of the HUO moniker is to give a better idea on the condition of the game. I.e. was it routed or was it not?? So to argue whether or not a day at a pinball show descredits the HUO label is flat out dumb.
The question at hand is do we still consider a pin HUO if it has been to a show, not can it be proven a pin is HUO. And it's not all about proof. Most in our hobby have character and you can simply ask them.
Secondly, no way Stern play tests each new pin several hundred times. If you believe that you may want to redirect the "dumb" comment.
Quoted from PinChili:It's all BS.
1) Every game has been played to some degree in the factory for testing purposes ... probably much more so then it would be played for a day or two at a show.
This makes me wonder - How many games are put on at the factory? Cause when my Black Knight 2000 was at Allentown, it got 274 plays in one day, 447 between the 2 days it was there.
Chris
Stern (or any manufacturer, for that matter) putting hundreds of test games on even a sampling of production is hysterically absurd. They might put a number of plays on one or three games. The rest get a ball played (maybe!) and out they go.
The "HUO" qualifier is used to insinuate low plays, low wear. Most of the time, a HUO claimed game will reflect the condition implied. Some few HUO games are hogged out with rusty balls...but I might suspect that a person with a HUO game in that condition would be taken to task for trying to advertise it as HUO even if it really was. It wouldn't matter anyway as a premium price could not be fetched.
People want to cling to HUO because it implies a premium condition, whether the game's actual condition reflects it or not (greed).
In the end, condition descriptors are all subjective and everyone should decide by observation if the condition is acceptable.
NO, a game featured in a show is NOT HUO any more. It has been placed in a setting available to the general public and will get hundreds more plays than it would have at home over the same period of time, typically.
The term HUO came about to differentiate between games that were routed and those that were bought brand new and taken home. You have to remember, this had a lot more weight back in the day when 97% of all games were routed. Back then, there were not home collectors buying every single new game that came off the production line like we have now. All the collectors I knew all had routed games. The very few that had found a Black Hole from someone that had bought it brand new was considered a true gem. That game was in far superior condition to any routed game and carried the HUO connotation.
Honestly we can dissect the term HUO; but we don't need to take it to the nth degree. As long as the game was bought by a homeowner and never put in a public place as a way to make money it's still considered HUO. Taking it to an Expo or a tournament isn't routing the game. Putting it at the theater, bar, etc., where the owner leaves the game unattended, then it is no longer HUO.
Dumbest fucking poll I ever took. You bored, man? Maybe spend less time on pinside and more time with that lovely wife of yours. If you don't, I will. I'm out (drops the mic).
--- Edit: this is the kind of post that ruins Pinside. Account frozen for at least a week. / robin---
"gweempose" where are your mod powers on this comment?
Quoted from bdaley6509:Dumbest fucking poll I ever took. You bored, man? Maybe spend less time on pinside and more time with that lovely wife of yours. If you don't, I will. I'm out (drops the mic).
Leicester
My concern with a machine thats been used for a bunch of events like that isnt really the # of plays.
I'd be more worried about the fact that the machine gets packed-up and moved X number of times... it seems like far more crap happens to machines in transit than occurs from normal play...
Quoted from bdaley6509:Dumbest ....(stupid shit deleted)..... (drops the mic).
You know - its really aggravating when d-bags post stuff like this- knowing that they're just going to get a thread eject-
They don't care about the eject because they have no intention of posting again- so they think they can say whatever they want and have zero effective repercussion.... childish.
For something as offcolor and offensive as this, Id love to see these jerkwads get a couple day "vacation" from posting anywhere on pinside.... that would stop them from dropping a hand grenade in a thread then laughing later....
Im thinking this guy is just steaming over getting "outed" for paying nearly $10K for a Luci
I had a rather corpulent tech squeeze in between games and ding up the decals with his belt. I've had games damaged, rails bent, etc, moving them. More damage done in transit than from all the play I and my guests have done.
Quoted from pinlawyer:I had a rather corpulent tech squeeze in between games and ding up the decals with his belt. I've had games damaged, rails bent, etc, moving them. More damage done in transit than from all the play I and my guests have done.
belt buckle... probably more a problem in AZ and TX than NC
But I agree 100%.
But beyond damage- I swear 50% of the time I ship a pin- some damn connector comes loose and causes me a headache to locate...so zero cost to repair- just pain in the ass.... (thank god for Lloyd!)
I know people get stuck on the term HUO, but as HUO does not reflect condition of a game, it shouldn't matter whether a game brought to a show loses the tag. Do you think people bringing BBB's and King Kong's to shows are worried about an HUO tag? No, and they shouldn't be... condition is king, not an arbitrary tag.
You should be paying money based on the current condition of the pin. Nothing else matters.
If you pay more because someone told you that it's HUO, well then you're part of the reason why everyone throws that term around so loosely.
Quoted from bdaley6509:Dumbest fucking poll I ever took. You bored, man? Maybe spend less time on pinside and more time with that lovely wife of yours. If you don't, I will. I'm out (drops the mic).
--- Edit: this is the kind of post that ruins Pinside. Account frozen for at least a week. / robin---
Just to reinforce the point. Posts such as this one will get you a minimum of 7 days as a frozen account.
We tried to be less corporal and it is just not getting the message across to some pinsiders.
If you make a similar post as the one quoted above, you will be frozen.
Please just be nice to each other. It's really not that hard.
Marcus
Quoted from Xerico:Just to reinforce the point. Posts such as this one will get you a minimum of 7 days as a frozen account.
We tried to be less corporal and it is just not getting the message across to some pinsiders.
If you make a similar post as the one quoted above, you will be frozen.
Please just be nice to each other. It's really not that hard.
Marcus
You might want to consider hiding/archiving the original offending post, and then not quoting the content in your subsequent explanations. It seems like the unwanted posts get quoted too many times. Just a suggestion. I don't need to see garbage posts. Thanks!
Villejuif
O means only.
It's pretty clearly defined if you look up the word only what it means.
A game used in a show or tournament, unless it is your home, is no longer HUO.
That doesn't mean it's a very nice game, a game that is much nicer than an average example of that title.
It just means it isn't HUO.
Having said that, I've seen a few HUO games that were beat to death, or got wet when a basement flooded. Those are still HUO, but are not in nice condition.
So, that just further proves that pedigrees are useless on pins. Look at condition.
Quoted from johnwartjr:O means only.
Heh. I'm going to start selling all my games as 'HU'. 
why not do like cars, low mileage? or in our case low plays, or mint... i doubt people advertise cars as showroom only... they drive them around on sundays... no?
Quoted from bdaley6509:--- Edit: this is the kind of post that ruins Pinside. Account frozen for at least a week. / robin---
This is the important part.
I think the quote was left as an example. Way to go Robin, walking the walk. 
I propose the following metrics:
1) PC = Play Count.
2) MC(SLCR) = Move Count, Since Last Cabinet Restoration
3) SC = Service Count. How many times the pin has been serviced.
That should get you most of the way there. I toyed with using "doorways passed through while moving", but then we'd have to argue about different doorway widths and the potential for damage.
Quoted from ryanwanger:I propose the following metrics:
1) PC = Play Count.
2) MC(SLCR) = Move Count, Since Last Cabinet Restoration
3) SC = Service Count. How many times the pin has been serviced.
That should get you most of the way there. I toyed with using "doorways passed through while moving", but then we'd have to argue about different doorway widths and the potential for damage.
Forgot a few
4) GWBBBTROM = guys with big belt buckles that rub on machine
5) BPWKWISF = birthday parties with kids with insane sticky fingers....
Thanks for the thoughts guys... I was just wondering what others thought about the issue and according to the poll it's about a 2/3 vote for not HUO. That was kind of my feeling and I feel like huo is for private collections only but it was stated before condition is king. When you purchase a pin that says huo and it is getting shipped you have high expectations for condition. Thanks for the input guys for those of you who actually weighed in on a positive manner 
new sterns cant be reset, lifetime plays cant be erased....
well, unless you replace the board that holds that memory.
Quoted from cody_chunn:Electronic play meters can be reset...
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