Good luck!

TAF is a good choice.

TZ is pretty good, but generally requires a lot of maintenance and the rules are not as forgiving when something goes out.

Fish Tales has a great theme but is too hard for most with the lightning flippers.

Getaway is a great location game. People love the supercharger. Champion Pub and Junkyard are pretty good with the easy "shoot the middle" objectives. CP seems to break down more often, I've noticed.

We just dropped a Frankenstein off at the local rec center. People actually seemed to be interested in it and one guy started playing as soon as it was ready. It's been several years since the place has had any pinballs though, maybe it will do well to get a bunch of attention.

I'm going to put FT in our Chief Petty Officers club and see if people play it. Gonna start off with it on free play and if it catches on maybe start charging 25 cents with the proceeds going back to the club and then rotate the games out every couple of months.

How are earnings, smokedog? Any vandalism yet? Issues with the bar owner?

Yes, inquiring minds want to know.

Nice titles. Assuming they're well maintained I'd be dropping some serious coin there.

Glad things are kinda working out. Me and my bro are still working on getting enough machines to fill our own rental place. Lots of work to get ready, but we are real excited about it.

Man, I wish you were in my neck of the woods. Pins in the wild are few and far between around here. When I actually stumble across one it is usually one of the newer Stern machines. Nothing like SS or MB that's for sure!

Glad to hear things seem to be working out so far for the most part. Especially that your machines aren't being mistreated.

sounds like things are happening for you smokedog - nice

I've been considering putting a 4-player X-Men arcade on location. I was going to see if I could find a smaller theater looking for something. I just think it would be a coin hog. I'm still a newbie with pinball, but it seems there is just a lot more that could go wrong.

Really excited for Monday and my first pin. Plus, just got off work and played a free game of TZ. I work at a resort and it's the only pin we have. It really doesn't do that well though.

was just wondering how everything has been going for your smoke dogg? were you required to get a city vending permit or license for your machines on location? i have 4 out now, and am waiting for a response from my city council. its good having machines out on location for many reasons. are you satisified with your decision?

if you place it, they will play

+1000

that's whats its all about. people coming together for the survival of pinball! glad to hear things are going well for you. sounds like you have a great location

This thread is pretty encouraging. I'm still planning on contacting whomever snatches up a local bar - they have a great area for pins towards the back. It was formerly filled with driver's, shooter's, and one lonely JD.

I want to get some low cost machines, it's on the banks of the Rock River, so I thought a FT would be a pretty cool theme. That, however, doesn't really fall under low cost for me. I'd like to start out with one pin, and work my way up. There's plenty of room for more, but I'm thinking if I don't fill it the old OP will be back to fill the space.

Being on the waterfront, there is a lot of traffic in the summer. The winter months will be very slow. I was thinking of putting some Sys 11's or something that doesn't look horribly dated out there. Any opinions?

a friend has about 10-12 pins on route near me. his best producing location is a pool hall/bar where he has road show and dr who. last week he told me he is making 3-400 a month total from the 2 pins and and a couple of older vids.thats how he supports his hobby. he buys old pins fixes them up and puts them on route.

I found a quarter log in my TFTC and it was up to 40,000 quarters when they quit recording it. That's a lot of games!

You should be able to write off some of the expenses on your taxes as well.

Smokedog-- how is ur venture going? Still at it? Very interesting thread!

Mike

Hey all thinking about doing same thing only buying new Tron Pro, AC/DC Pro, and a Avengers Pro new in box and trying to swing deal for all three. My friend manages a premier sports bar and says I can present a proposal. I was thinking 60/40 since I would be placing newer machines. No contract other than profit share contract. If I can get get in low 4's I think I could have machines paid off within a year or so. My wife is game-now all I have to do is check it out. Any thoughts?

To have them paid off in a year is pretty ambitious. Let's say you get a sweetheart deal on the pins and get all three for $13000. That would mean in order to pay them off in a year in a 60/40 split you would have to generate just under $22000 in play, ($141 per game per week, every week for a year) which is a ton. These things go stale on location after a few months, no matter what the title or how new. I think a very aggressive payoff schedule might look something like 2 years. The only upside is that you have an asset that will not dramatically decline in value while in use. So at the end of 2 years you have three pins and enough to buy a few more. In a operators standpoint it pays to get some solid B titles (maybe 3 for $5000?) and put them out. Much easier to hit your target payback schedule that way, while still retaining your asset worth.

To expand on what matthess has mentioned, keep in mind that you also have to take sales tax out of your receipts. Looks like Littleton has a state rate of 3% + another 2.5% or more based on the county and city. So at a 60/40 split, you are only going to see around 56 cents of every dollar, probably less. And we haven't even discussed licensing fees, liability insurance, a change machine, etc. A more reasonable goal is paying off one machine a year. At 75 cents/play, that may be achievable if your location has a lot of traffic and a lot of play. At 50 cents/play, it probably won't happen.

At least with one pin their name would have some meaning.

It's going to take more collectors picking up the slack of the old Ops and putting pins on location if we want them to be more prominent again. Good job stepping up!

How is business?

That's good to hear.

I have a couple thoughts. Bear I mind I don't know anything so take it with a grain of salt.

Is there already an operator in there, with big equipment - pool tables, darts, juke box, Golden Tee, Buck Hunter ? If so he has a contract and you ain't getting in.

No contract ? Be ready when they call and tell you to get the games out or they'll throw them out back.

License ( providing you can get it and zoning ordinances - you might need on you, your business, place, and each machine ), insurance - someone gets hurt by one of your games you will be sued.

You ready to be on call 24/7 ? Just sitting down to dinner with your wife who is game and the location calls and the game is down and their best customer want to play it now. Haul yourself down there pronto. Place got burglarized at 3am, get out of bed and see what is left of your equipment. Be ready to get new games in there if they were ruined.

Have lots of tools, parts, boards, etc. on hand.

Buy three new pins, that won't be taking anything in after a month or two, and turn them into routed games. Just how much do you plan to lose, I mean make on this venture.

Do you know anything about operating coin op equipment ? Everyone in that industry is not always real nice.

I'm not telling you not to do it. Just do your homework so you have the best chance at success. The distributor can help you. There is the http://www.amoa.com/ . Try and talk to an op or even go work for one for a few months.

You'd likely do better buying three older games and starting out.

LTG : )

Yea -I am weighing pros and cons- checked out some of expenses. Business license-$40 Register llc-$90 ,etc. Insurance -have not checked into yet. I am thinking if I buy these three new titles at good price- what do I have to lose. If it does'nt work out -I pull them and enjoy them or sell them. Minimal investment-or at least I think so. This location is good and I think - $50-$90 a week per pin is possible. Will take longer to pay off then I thought, but may still be worth it. Still kicking it around-lots to think about.

$50 to $90 total, or your half ?

And if you obtain those numbers, you do realize within a month or two it will be more like $20 to $40 ?

Unless you keep buying new titles and rotating them in there, the coin drop will die off.

LTG : )

He doesn't really know yet. He thinks $50 - $90 a week.

He could be in for a shock, especially a month or two down the road.

LTG : )

I bought a TRS over the holidays. estimating the original price to be below $5000 the operator lost 40% of his value. his take was a little south of 12000 quarters. $3000 divided by 2 means he lost money on the deal after repairs, tweeks, coin retrieval etc... sure TRS isn't the most popular title but to joe average that means nothing. if your payoff schedule was 4 years, if you entered into the arraignment knowing that you weren't going to get rich but you might pay off machines after 48 months and if you did it for the love of pinball then it might be doable. question... in everyone's opinion are pins on location used mostly by pinheads or by the average consumer. if you could pick up three used machines for $10,000 (say BBH, stones and wof) or two nib $5000 machines which way would make more sense? have three lesser but new titles or two brand new titles?

Next time I'm in s'toon ( not often) I'm stopping in to play !

I have a friend who says hookers and blow and he's been saying that for 20 years BEFORE Alan said "strippers and cocaine" in The hangover. funny

Very true. I'd love to see a consistent $50/week/pin. And $90/week...that would be unreal.

You guys are not doing it right. If you had WoZ on location it would make $70/ "DAY" not per "week". sheesh.

If it opens a new market. Appeals to new players.

WOZ could take in a lot.

When P2K came out, for me it did generate extra income because it attracted the non pinball players too.

LTG : )

This sport bar is packed 7 days a week. My estimate may be off -it is hard to forcast. It's like throwing a dart in the dark. I am leaning towards NIB because of less maintainance. Broken plastics and wear and tear-I can handle. If I put in older titles or B grade I am afraid of constant maintainance and upkeep. Not that there wont be any maintainance with new but I am thinking- alot less. Basically want newer Stern. Monopoly- I dont feel would be a good placement or World Poker Tour, Transformers, Avatar or any other low end Stern. From $2500 to $4200 not that big of a margin in my opinion-when it comes to appeal for pinheads and non-pinheads. Attracting people to play is the name of the game. To make up the difference in pricing I believe the number of plays would be quite a bit more on a new title than older. If the titles get sour over time I will have to switch them out with other titles to keep the interest or start up another location and start to rotate. As for pricing I agree I will probably need a minimum of .75$ per game. I would like to see a $1.00 per play but that seems steep to me. I would not want to pay a $1.00 per play. Treat people the way you want to be treated right?

You have that right. Packed doesn't mean they are making money. Lots of packed places close.

Good one. You must have missed some of the problems cropping up on new releases. And you still have a steel ball rolling around at 3 or 4 miles an hour. Things will break.

This is why I suggest learn as much as you can.

I might also point out that if pinball is your hobby, and you turn it into a job. You'll burn out pretty quick. Then you'd need a new hobby, a new job, or both. Something else to think about, if you really like pinball.

LTG : )

People complain there is no pinball on location. Then they complain it's too expensive when you put a new machine on location. Good luck. If you think people will appreciate your effort you might just be a little disappointed.

So if you are losing money at 75¢ a play. Will your boss give you a raise ? Landlord lower your rent ? Bank lower interest on your loans or charge cards ? Grocery store will charge you less ? Coffee shop give you a discount ? Gas station charge you less ?

Your treat people hypotheses might not work.

Provide great games ( not necessarily new ) provide great service, that is your goal. Not subsidize someone else's entertainment. Believe me they won't give a rat's hind parts who or what you are.

LTG : )

Yes, there has been discussion on Pinside in the past about pricing.

LTG : )

Not to be a negative Nellie, but one thing that I've heard of and don't see anyone bringing up is taxes. What if the Location gets audited? The IRS isn't stupid. When Mr Taxman asks about the Pinball Machines in the corner, the Location is going to give him your telephone number! If they don't get answers or paperwork, they'll tell you how much your games earn and how much you owe them.

I know it's a longshot, but it happens!

Then you didn't read my post. I always bring this up because you have to take it into consideration. I pay my location owner with a check so if he gets audited, it is all right there and nothing is hidden. I'm responsible for paying the sales tax, and I pay it when it is due. He has to pay taxes on the income I pay him, that is his responsibility.