(Topic ID: 3275)

pinrepair website no longer free ...


By gweempose

8 years ago



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  • 71 posts
  • 28 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by HELLODEADCITY
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 8 years ago

    I just discovered from a thread over at RGP that you can no longer access the pinrepair website for free. You need to make a $10 donation to the Pacific Pinball Museum, and they will then send you the repair guide on CD ...

    http://pacificpinball.org/visit/pinball-swag

    #2 8 years ago

    Wow. When did they change it? I was just on there last night and was able to download a whole bunch of information without paying.

    G

    #3 8 years ago

    I just tried the site. Yep... you have to purchase the CD from the Pacific Pinball Museum.

    Bummer.

    Well, for the information they have compiled over the years, $10 is well worth it. I'll be ordering a copy.

    G

    #4 8 years ago

    $10 bucks is easily worth it. I was reading the thread on RGP as well. I just don't get some of the negative comments.

    #5 8 years ago

    The change must have just went into affect today. Considering the fact that Clay was nice enough to provide all this information for free for all these years, $10 hardly seems unfair. Plus, the PPM is certainly a worthwhile cause. I'm just a bit surprised that there was no warning whatsoever that this change was about to take place.

    #6 8 years ago

    Probably no warning so the website wouldn't crash with everybody rushing to copy the info.

    #7 8 years ago

    I have no problem getting things this way. Posting an example.

    http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/sys37/index1.htm

    I can appreciate them wanting to support the museum. But most all of the sites info has been archived elsewhere.

    #8 8 years ago

    All the info from all those involved and those who took on the task of writing it up into a guide really gave new life to the hobby. who knows how many games that would of been discarded or parted out just because of 'lack of good info'?
    Perhaps one day you will come across a pinball repair manual at the local book store?

    #9 8 years ago

    If I tallied up all the money I have saved over the years using Pinrepair's information, I could buy about 100 CD's easily.

    Probably no warning so the website wouldn't crash with everybody rushing to copy the info

    I guess it was providence... last night was the first time in a while I had been on the site and I copied the entire page I needed so I could print off-line.

    G

    #10 8 years ago

    If I tallied up all the money I have saved over the years using Pinrepair's information, I could buy about 100 CD's easily.

    Totally Agreed!!

    $10 is a bargain, $50 is a bargain, and on and on.
    Clays guides have been a go to resource. And think about all your time he has saved us by having all that great info, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel or spend hours troubleshooting.

    I'm gonna order a CD just to show my appreciation.

    #11 8 years ago

    There are people who have contributed, in some cases large quantities or entire sections, that did so because they believed in the free distribution of the information. Also, these authors won't see any money from the sales, and they don't necessarily support the non-profit in question, or understand exactly what the money is going to be used for because of a lack of transparency.

    Also, some people were frustrated that it was shut off without notice. I agree with this, if instant access was available fine. But the primary way of paying is via mail. The pinball showdown is in less than 2 weeks, this is crunch time for people trying to get their machines ready and some of them might be without their primary technical reference.

    I was reading the thread on RGP as well. I just don't get some of the negative comments.

    #12 8 years ago

    There are people who have contributed, in some cases large quantities or entire sections, that did so because they believed in the free distribution of the information.

    It's kind of like if Wikipedia all of a sudden started charging people for access. Anyone who wrote a wiki would certainly have a valid reason to be upset.

    #13 8 years ago

    It's kind of like if Wikipedia all of a sudden started charging people for access. Anyone who wrote a wiki would certainly have a valid reason to be upset.

    Agreed, Ill be ordering my CD this week.

    #14 8 years ago

    It's kind of like if Wikipedia all of a sudden started charging people for access. Anyone who wrote a wiki would certainly have a valid reason to be upset

    I agree with this wholeheartedly!

    If someone donated time and info someone else shouldn't profit off of it. That being said they are saying it goes to the museum, my question is...Who is the curator and how are the funds being used?

    Everything/every penny has to be accounted for, and all transactions transparent.

    #15 8 years ago

    I thought Wiki was looking for donations?

    #16 8 years ago

    I thought Wiki was looking for donations?

    It's apples and oranges. Wikipedia is simply looking to recoup their operating costs so that the information can remain available to all. The donations are OPTIONAL, and they are not forcing you to contribute to a charity that you may or may not want to give money to. I agree with some of the posters on RGP who suggested that an optional donation button on Clay's site would have been a better solution. Then Clay could have done whatever he wanted to with the money, and the information would have remained available for those who need it. As I said before, I think $10 is perfectly reasonable. I just think the whole situation wasn't handled properly.

    #17 8 years ago

    From the bottom of pinrepair.com:

    "Why Free? These guides are free because I want people to use them. The more people use them, and the more it helps them, then the more inclined I am to keep it up to date. For this reason, if you find the guides useful, please tell your friends. These guides are free, rather than formally published, because I want to deliver the best product possible. If it was published, I would not be able to get to market so quickly. I find that as information and new idea develop, timeliness is important. Also since it's available for free, I am under no pressure to make the guides "marketable". I simply include whatever I think might be useful."

    The information is invaluable, yet asking for $10 goes against what the author has stated as their beliefs. I visit the pacific pinball museum in alameda about 3-4 times a year and it's steadily improved and I do hope all the money goes to them.

    Can anyone describe if after paying $10 you are given online access to the docs again? Is the CD going to just be a dump of the html?

    #18 8 years ago

    Clay seems like a pretty impulsive and somewhat emotional guy so after what happened to Tilt Town and all the drama that ensued, he seems to be re-examining what he puts out there for people to consume. And I can't help but sympathize with him... you can only do so much to help other people (for nothing) before you tire of taking all the bullshit and simply crack. That said, if some of the content isn't his, it's not appropriate to suddenly start charging for it charitable or not. I'd be livid if someone did that to me without asking for my permission.

    #19 8 years ago

    I remember this happening many many times with some free shareware programs ... while the initial premise was one thing it became something else fee based. I do understand his wanting to support a good cause .. it was just done like those programs with little or no notice. I already saw the most recent DVD posted just today on a FTP site in a ISO file format. It was most likely because of this change as it never showed up before.

    #20 8 years ago

    Wow - this does come as a surprise. While I think $10 is MORE than reasonable considering the wealth of information, I wonder if the net effect of this change is that the information becomes 'hidden' from future searchers.

    who knows how many games that would of been discarded or parted out just because of 'lack of good info'?

    I can add one to this list for sure. I bought a 1977 Bally Black Jack that was headed for the landfill. It needed a full restoration, and it's not something I would have even considered doing had I not come across the pinrepair guides first. The fact that I could read through them gave me confidence that I could fix the old machine. If I had just stumbled across the 'you need to pay' page....it's doubtful I would have taken on the repair in the first place.

    #22 8 years ago

    They are all here for free:
    http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/fix.htm

    That's where I was 1st directed to from the good people here at Pinside.com. Thank you.

    #23 8 years ago

    They are all here for free:

    http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/fix.htm

    Those copies are pretty outdated (2003). I don't know exactly how much has been revised as far as content, but in looking at the DE pages I see a lot of new pictures added.

    The Google cache seems to be the most up to date information (last week). Web Archive's copies are from 2009.

    #24 8 years ago

    February 2009. This is the latest full copy I've been able to access:

    http://replay.web.archive.org/20090225083903/http://pinrepair.com/

    #25 8 years ago

    Thanks for the newer archive jalpert .. while I (and this site) don't promote sharing copyrighted or proprietary information this was out there for years and was promoted as free to share until now by the other site. It is why there are these copies that were allowed and not challenged.

    P.S. BTW are you ever gonna add an avatar or can we just pick one for you jalpert ? .. hehe

    P.S.S. Where is Robin chiming in on this one ? C'mon dude or you are not getting that iPhone 5 pre-release

    #26 8 years ago

    If you use Google's cache, you'll get versions from 4/14/11. However, AFAIK you have to copy the link you want and paste it into Google, let it search for the link, then view the cached version.

    #27 8 years ago

    I do not see what all the fuss is about, honestly all the pissed off people have already placed an order for a CD, once they receive they will just upload to an FTP site or share it as a bittorrent for everyone to download, for all the people trying to download either shell out the $10.00 or wait for someone to upload some files to download. It will eventually happen just have to give it a little bit of time.

    #28 8 years ago

    I'm not sure what to do. I obviously would like to have the CD, but I already made a donation to PPM earlier this year.

    #29 8 years ago

    $10 that's a steal for that information, and he's donating it to a good cause. I'm ordering it will be money well spent.

    #30 8 years ago

    I got a feeling more pinball repair sites are going to appear

    #31 8 years ago

    I think $10 would be a good investment, just wondering how they are going to handle any updates, maybe issue login / passwords for all persons that buy a CD or monthly or yearly updates to the DVD, not sure. I feel for the people that contributed information to the site, I can see why so many are upset about it.

    #32 8 years ago

    $10 that's a steel for that information, and he's donating it to a good cause.

    I agree. But forcing me to make another donation feels a lot like extortion. I really don't mean to come off like a jerk, it's just that the whole situation is very bizarre.

    #33 8 years ago

    I got a feeling more pinball repair sites are going to appear ...

    It should probably be made into some sort of wiki.

    #34 8 years ago

    Ha, true about the avatar. I guess I just don't know what I'd put up. My pinball tastes change about every day as I find something new, so it's hard for me

    The copyright legitimacy of pinrepair.com is very much in dispute over at RGP. However, I think it's 100% okay to archive public web sites and re-distribute as long as it's not for profit. Otherwise, Google would be in violation just for having a link to cached sites and I'm sure they wouldn't make themselves liable.

    Just today I was talking to someone looking to get into pins, and the first thing I typically talk about is pinrepair, it makes new comers feel good knowing the help and guides are out there. I can't do that anymore, it's sad.

    I will personally feel better when I at least get my CD. Nothing wrong with the 2009 info, but it never hurts to have the most complete set available.

    I can understand the Clay has been shit on to the point where he might not want to maintain the site. But instead of locking it down, it should have been opened up to the public via wiki or handed off to someone that would have taken his place.

    Forget being locked down and sold, I'm more concerned about future updates, revisions etc. Wiki software is free and hosting is very cheap, I would have preferred to seen the site passed down.

    Thanks for the newer archive jalpert .. while I (and this site) don't promote sharing copyrighted or proprietary information this was out there for years and was promoted as free to share until now by the other site. It is why there are these copies that were allowed and not challenged.

    P.S. BTW are you ever gonna add an Avatar or can we just pick one for you jalpert ? .. hehe

    P.S.S. Where is Robin chiming in on this one ? C'mon dude or you are not getting that iPhone 5 pre-release []

    #35 8 years ago

    I couldn't have gotten into this hobby without the pinrepair site.I'll go as far to say it pretty much changed my life.I'm in for $10.00 with a smile on my face.

    #36 8 years ago

    Don't get me wrong. I've donated several antique machines to museums and asked nothing in return. If the cost of the server/bandwidth was a problem I wish like many he would have sought someone to host it. I know we would have been glad to host it here (and using the pinrepair URL to link it direct to the info) on Pinside and ask for donations to the museum for those that found it helpful. He has been great to host it for so long out of his own pocket with the intention of helping people getting into the hobby. Most people don't realize hosting a website costs $$$ not only for the hosting but a certain amount of monthly bandwidth usage. If you go over that bandwidth usage it's like your cellphone plan and costs you tons more per megabyte. Every time you access Pinside it's charged against the sites allotted bandwidth. Don't cut back .. we'd rather pay more if needed to keep the site free and running. I bought and link the .net and have offered to help Robin with charges if needed. Right now he is paying for it all.

    The question arises too if it is copyrighted: Can I share what's on my DVD with a newbie ? Probably not. BTW I did order one.

    #37 8 years ago

    It should probably be made into some sort of wiki.

    Hey gweempose... that's a good idea... you get the ball rolling, I'll be glad to participate

    G

    #38 8 years ago

    Pinrepair wiki is where its at if you ask me. That would be an excellent idea/project.

    I for one am for keeping information free. Not that the $10 is a bad cause or anything but let people decide on their own and keep the info free forever at all costs (pun intended)

    #39 8 years ago

    http://pacificpinball.org/get-involved/donations

    "We are no longer accepting orders for Clay's Pin Repair site DVDs."

    I Wonder whats going to happen now

    #40 8 years ago

    Interesting, I just ordered a repair DVD late last night. I didn't see the "We're no longer accepting orders..." blurb at the time.

    Perhaps I made it in before cut-off. I wonder?

    #41 8 years ago

    someone is on the ball www.pinwiki.com is set up and being populated

    #42 8 years ago

    So who created the Pinwiki site? Anyone from here? It's a great start!

    G

    #43 8 years ago

    So who created the Pinwiki site? Anyone from here? It's a great start!

    There's a forum link right under the title Pinwiki.

    #44 8 years ago

    So who created the Pinwiki site? Anyone from here? It's a great start!

    It is Pinball Wizard on KLOV. I don't know his actual name. But the bulk of the information about it can be found on KLOV and RGP. (KLOV is where he first posted about it.)

    #45 8 years ago

    "We are no longer accepting orders for Clay's Pin Repair site DVDs."

    I Wonder whats going to happen now

    I received a notice stating the same. I checked and my card was not charged. It's nice of Pinball Wizard to start the wiki site.

    #46 8 years ago

    Maybe all those people who volunteered information spoke up...

    #47 8 years ago

    PPM obviously realized they made a mistake. Their intentions were good, but I don't think they took enough time to think about how many people would be pissed off when suddenly forced to pay for something that had been free for so long.

    #48 8 years ago

    PPM obviously realized they made a mistake. Their intentions were good, but I don't think they took enough time to think about how many people would be pissed off when suddenly forced to pay for something that had been free for so long.

    That's more or less the whole story.

    I applaud how cool-headed this forum has been about it and giving those involved the benefit of the doubt.

    #49 8 years ago

    Interesting. I wondered what was going on. I got a refund and although I cannot say that I liked being bullied into a donation, I didnt see where a few bucks would hurt anything.

    #50 8 years ago

    I spend a lot more on parts than $10. I'm glad it will continue to be a resource for the new issues that are bound to come up.

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