Gray area IMO. No email system is private; though it probably should be stated that PinMails can be accessed by admin(s).

Big Robin's watching...

Robin.jpeg

I knew that from the "get-go" as well.
Since we are here. What e-mail system ISN'T read by someone else?!?

Is the reading of the pinmails the basis for the withdrawal or is the content of the mail involved? I.e., is this a response to a matter of principle - Robin is viewing mail without notice that he may do so - or is there more to the story?

+ 1 to kmoore's comment. I wouldn't think that any email exchange on someone else's server would be 100% private. Robin is responsible for moderating the site and moderating pinmail probably falls into that category - so long as that moderating involves looking for any illegal type activity and not discriminating against any particular member or abusing that sort of power.

Given your status at Pinside, yes that curteousy probably should have been extended.

What's the scenario?

Understand your beef BD, and I think Robin should provide a disclaimer that pinmail isn't private, but I don't think that is worth abandoning the site and all of the people you have helped. Nothing prevents you from using pinmail to give someone your private email or contact info for offline communication. I'd rather not see you go - my two cents.

He should apologize and you should stay on Pinside, but know he can technically snoop.

I assume allowing admins access to mail is in something you have to agree to when signing up. If not I would say you have a very reasonable gripe with it being done. I am surprised he told you he did it.

Robin - from a legal perspective- I would recommend a short disclaimer on the bottom of everyone's pinmail page. Just my opinion, but I'm always big on disclosure in situations like this.

I would recommend that you both back away from the message boards for a day, play some pinball, cool off ... and hug it out bitches! Seriously - work it out. Differences of opinion do not mean you cannot coexist on this forum.

I also assume you two are dealing with each other over email which is a terrible way to resolve a problem. I'd suggest a phone call (skype anyone?) after you both take a day our two to reflect and cool down.

hahahahahaah.....

BTW: I say if you don't like it, don't use this FREE website.

While I don't have anything I need to hide in my PM's, I, like BD, have the expectation of privacy on this site regarding my PM's, I have the expectation that a PM is in fact, a private message. And he has made the choice not to use this site. I LOVE pinside,,, but more power to ya BD!!

Thats fine it's his site after all

You will regret leaving something you have so much vested in BD. I've only been coming here a short time, but these forums, for our obsession, mean more to you than you are likely thinking of now. Take a break for a week, resolve whatever your differences are.

RGP is great, but so impersonal.

Wow, that sounds educational. Another Brick In The Wall. HEY TEACHER!!!
What a cheap shot! Booooooooo

No offense, but if google was into my gmail and was reading my bank receipts, my account balances emailed to me, my GPA, and the crap my mom sends me, the whiney junk my ex-employer sent me, the people that call me and leave me voicemails, I'd be SUPER PISSED, that's a free service and I expect them to respect my privacy as I would respect theirs. That's why I use it.

Booya to you my friend

hehe sorry, tangent here, but that sounded like the classic Jack Handy deep thought:

"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at him".

Cheap shot indeed. I'm with Loupie on this one booo to you my friend.

Its all of our site in truth we donate and spend a lot of time helping in the forums and what not. Sure A LOT of props should be given to Robin for his efforts on making Pinside what it it today but its success is due to its members and wonderful community.

I agree with BD it just does not seem right to have someone going into pinmail without notice and/or reason. As long as the forum is moderated and emails are not illegal I see little reason to be going through pinmail.

Hell no, no one should be accessing your mail without permission. Not cool.

How did you find out?

If there is anything that can be learned from this bad experience is use regular email versus Pinside mail if you want to have a private conversation with somebody.

If I am not mistaken, doesn't a pm get messaged to your regular email notifying you that you got a pm?

Sorry this caused a falling out. Hopefully things will work themselves out.

In the Soviet Union CCCP they do it all the time.

The_Dude_Abides, man sometimes you surprise me. You just did it again. I concurr.

I get that they should keep and eye on anything bad going on, but no one should be able to access your email without being notified first and with just cause. Fine, great if you know about it up front that they monitor. There should definitely be something stating that they monitor emails if there isn't already. When at work sending things I don't want read by employee I use personal email because we are told quite often that our work email is not to be used as a personal email account, it is part of their property and therefore can and will access our emails at any given time. We can use google talk (im) which is nice because you can make it "off the record" and the conversations are not kept/stored in anyway and thats how we send a lot of stuff we don't want read by certain people at work.

I see Brokedad's annual leaving post is up.

Now that i am re-reading this post better, I apologize for my original post. I did't realize at the time that it would be taken as a cheap shot towards BrokeDad. I now realize that this is exactly what it looks like and I feel like an ass. I don't want to see BD, or anybody else for that matter to leave the site.
I'll try to read the entire post better in the future before making any smart-ass comments.

BD, thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention. I use Pinmail all the time, and I actually had never thought about whether or not it was private prior to this thread. I always knew that it was technically possible for someone to view my messages, but I guess just assumed that this would never happen. I'm really curious to know what caused robin to look at this particular Pinmail in the first place. I can't imagine he has the time or energy to read every single message. Perhaps he is automatically notified when certain keywords are used such as his name. I think we as a community deserve a little more explanation about what went down. When one of our most prolific and helpful members is this upset, I think it's a pretty big deal.

annual drama occurance?

"Pinmails" are implied by this site to be private. If they are not, which is being implied here, it should be stated.

He's leav-n it up !!! I agree with Most , but I have Nothing to Hide,,, Read mine all you want !!

Nothing is SECURE !!! Anywhere !!! No Complaint's here ..

Has it been that long already? Wow, time flies.

Send encrypted mails if you want privacy.
Imaging if people were dealing drugs or wmd's on pinside.
i gotta say that Robin should have kept from commenting on specific contents of mails and just post a general notice about him reading.

+1 Hate to see you go BD but we all are grown people so I support you and robin. Hope to see ya back

wow deeppppppppppppppppppppp

Even the taxts on your phone are there forever for all. My friend has his daughters texts sent to him in a email every month. She does know and he is paying the bill.

What country is pinside hosted in?

Most forum software that I'm familiar with don't permit PM, or user information like passwords to be viewed by the administration. A privacy issue.

Without the disclaimer, there might very well be some privacy laws being broken here. I won't be using the PM options here.

My Pinmails should have a disclaimer that warn Robin of extreme boringness should he decide to read them.

Having run a large-ish site in the past I know the bumloads of work that go into it. For that reason, I say run it however you'd like!

That being said. I've read lots of good stuff from BD and hope he doesn't leave.

+1

Would it make any difference? Back in the USSR.

Yes, ultimately where a server is hosted dictates what laws it must follow.

...edit...

Looks like it's in the USA, which means a disclaimer should be needed. Privacy laws are pretty tight down there. Hosting through "theplanet", I noticed.

Good providers. Had a game server there for a while.

I say, Let's go to robin's home and burn it! haha!!! J/K Robin! You know we love you.

From a technical point of view, sometimes when you take care a a site like this, there are some filters that warn administrators of illegal activities if some words are found in private messages. I am not saying that you were doing something illegal, but some words might trigger a warning and that's when administrators check your personal messages and sometimes banned you from their site...

so make sure you don't talk crap about Robin!!! Just kidding Robin!

Brokedad I'm sad to see that you have now decided to start throwing mud to me and trying to discredit me and the site you once used to love

The reason I know the contents of your conversation with another Pinside member is because that other member decided to forward it to me by e-mail. And rightfully so, the things you said and did are inexcusable. The contents of your messages to that person was my reason to withdraw your moderator rights. I explained this to you in a kind and mature matter. I never told you to leave the site, just that you could no longer be a moderator. Your response to me were, as I recall, two captial words. And even after that I stayed nice to you. Changed your title to "retired pinside hero". Still, you try to discredit me with this. I can't believe my eyes. I can't believe I'm actually writing this as it has completely zilch to do with pinball or anything this site is about. It's the kind of crap I've been trying to avoid on this site for 10 years.

Just for the record (and yes, this may be considered a disclaimer): No one with access to the Pinside database (that would be my brother and myself) has ever read other people's PinsideMail messages. PinsideMail IS private, that has always been the whole idea behind it. I can't believe any sane person would think that, apart from building, extending and managing this website I would also have the time to read PRIVATE messages between others people. Your message are NOT read by anyone but yourself and the person you are messaging.

Brokedad, can we please leave at at this? I really don't want to have the whole conversation and everything out in the open. But if you insist people read the truth then that's what will happen. Again, I respect you for all your participation and I'm sad to see you leave like this, but apparently this is what you wanted and here we are.

Damn, the USA gets blamed for something else. Try the Netherlands, that's in Europe.
Different time zone.

It's a shame really.

The traceroutes don't lie. Robin might be European, but Pinside is in the heart of Texas.