Thanks for sharing. Glad to be on the list for one of these.

Thanks for the photos - very nice! Things look a little sparse in the personnel department, though. Any signs of gearing up for major production???

Looking good,anxious to play a finished product...

Raul is all they need. The man is a machine.

Awesome to see this thing come alive! No regrets whatsoever to be WOZ#733
Thanks for the photos, Jesse!

All I've got to say is, I'd give a right nut for one of those rotisseries.

Save your nuts and use a kidney.

By the way, who is this Raul guy you speak of.

JT thanks for sharing the pics. Things do seem to be moving along which is a great sign.

LOL Yes he is!

Who?

Thanks for the peek! Looking goooood!

Has there ever been a more anticipated Pin? The wait is killing me. Get Raul going on em and ship please!

Thanks for pictures!

Very cool! Good to hear positive news about the flippers and that ramp.

WOZ looks gorgeous. I just wish the slippers looked better. I'm not totally against them, but that last pic makes them look more like ruby blobs.

Someone get Raul on that. I've heard of his magical ability.

moving to JJP

There was a thread a week or so ago where someone had a random QA signature on their TZ playfield, and wondered what it was.

It looked like the name "Raul", so we all made up stories about the supposedly well-known pinball assembler Raul. His only rival is Chuck Norris.

Actually there were 2 threads about Raul, because the OP apparently didn't believe the stories on the first one and tried again. lol

lol Thanks for clarifying. I was very confused.

I heard that when Laylor was making Twilight Zone, Williams said it couldn't be done...that no man could assemble the playfield quickly enough to make enough machines to stay on schedule.

Thats when Raul stood up, and simply said 'Challenge Accepted'.

He apparently also leaves a very remarkble and distinguishing "thumb" print on all games after installingthe glass.

Yeah, the slippers are kind of hokey, but I mean, how could you not do that?

OK, sorry to keep being a skeptic about this - but this is what we kept hearing at PPE - "Hey, you can make the ramp, the flippers are fine". Yes, you COULD make the ramp, but it didn't FEEL good. They did NOT feel like Williams flippers, and we all know what Williams flippers feel like - so watching people rationalizing the PPE-flipper feel was a fascinating experience of watching people lie to themselves to convince themselves there wasn't a problem.

So - the real question about the current version you played - Do the flippers feel like Williams flippers with that strong "snap"? If not, we're still in the same place we were at PPE.

Who cares what the flippers feel like as long as you can make the shots and play the game? With all the action on the LCD and rules, modes, etc. to explore, thinking about what the flippers feel like just seems silly. For example, to me Gottlieb flippers fell very different from Williams, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying a game. Would you throw away your new electric toothbrush just because it "feels" different than your old one? As long as it does its job it doesn't matter.

BW/Stern Pinball at :23

JJP WOZ Pinball at :28

Are you serious? Flipper feel is EVERYTHING. If shots are a struggle, a game is less fun. Why do you think Sega pins sell for less than B/W? They have good layouts, rules, features...but the flippers lack that "snap" that fans of the WMS 90s games enjoyed. Jack sold many on the game based on the fact that it used WMS flippers and even made fun of how Stern flippers felt. He set the bar. So - when I played the game with slow/mushy flippers at PPE I was shocked...especially since SAM Stern flippers AREN'T weak. Now, we've been assured it won't be a problem....so - I'm asking the OP - were the flippers truly snappy like WMS, or is this another "justification" because the ramp could be made. The ramp can be made on a Batman Forever, but it still doesn't feel as good as WMS flipper ramp shots.

For the record, I have purchased a WOZ...but I don't operate on faith, I operate on facts. So, before labeling me "HATER" - my money is in, I played the PPE game extensively & have every right to be concerned about this.

I disagree that the sega flippers are weak. My ID4 has great flippers. Same with my TFTC. I know TFTC is DE but they both work very well. It is the 90's era flippers I think people seem to have a problem with. I might be wrong but that is what it seems to me.

Well, I've had my share of Segas and they're not weak in an unplayable way...but the best way to describe it is that they feel as though they're "pushing" the ball vs. "snapping" it like WMS flippers. They do tend to get weaker if you play for a while and the coils get hot. Games w/ far/steep ramps like Batman Forever get tough to play after being on for a while. This is how WOZ felt at PPE. Again, flipper feel is a very important topic amongst hardcore pinball players. I consider myself more lenient than some...but I know guys who would never own a DE, Sega, Gottleib, or even a Stern because of this! I know "WMS-flipper snobs" who bought WOZ based on the pitch that it's using WMS parts....to them, it was the grand revival of WMS! If the flippers don't feel "snappy" like WMS in the final game, many will be extremely disappointed.

Greg you can't tell people what they don't want to hear. Fat chicks never think they're fat! I'm sure the game has been fixed and it has none of the habits you saw at PPE! IMHO Per Counsel!

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Absocountry is a fat chick?

I don't know about that!! LOL

Well I actually don't have any games of my own but that doesn't mean I can't tell the difference when I play. Data East Segas are just as snappy as the more common Williams games, heck they seem to require less maintenance to provide a strong flip. Who said anything about name calling?

maybe a couple of assistants for Raul would be nice.

Things look to be moving along at the factory. Pics look great as always I am overflowing with anticipation. I hope it is all it looks to be.

Thank you for sharing
#814

Getting the flippers right is definitely a big deal, and I have no doubt they will.

But as for DE flippers, I've played them all through the 90s and always thought the "clunky flipper" complaint made by a few of the BW crowd on RGP was simply a gang mentality that went on for too long. And I'm mostly proven right in that people who are newish to pinball in the past 10 years come and play GnR, Lotr etc at my house, right next to MM and MB etc, and never ever even one time complain about the feel of the flippers. Gottlieb's 35v were definitely late to the party, but beyond that the difference from the early 90's to now is mostly in people's heads. A DE/Sega/Stern flipper with new sleeves and stops is just as smooth as any BW flipper to me. The only difference seems to be the parallel wound coil does seem to retain its snappiness a little better when in drastic need of new sleeves/cleaning, which is IMHO where that myth began, with players playing crappy maintained games on location in the 90's.

When I was at UF they showed us a film of a study they did involving chemically sensitive people allergic to carbamates, pyrethroids, etc. They had a couple dozen chemically sensitive people sitting in a clean room and informed them they'd be testing a new synthetic pyrethroid which was odorless, microencapsulated and non-detectable, and should not bother them at all. So they dressed up a professional looking pest control tech and had him apply it to the baseboards well away from everyone, and one by one they started gagging and wheezing, some sat comfortably, but 3/4 of the room were literally tearing from the eyes, snot and the works, and some left before they informed them that distilled water was the only thing which had been applied.

The mind is a tricky thing, and can cause all kinds of mental reactions which trigger real physical actions. And gang/herd mentality works overtime on some folks.

It is amusing that there's next to no complaints about DE/Sega flippers by hobbyists in the past 10 years, other than the overworked coils on Stern games needing a boost after 30 minutes of hard use, when the previous 5-10 years involved a complaint per day on RGP. I've actually been told the flippers on my GNR feel better than any in my collection.

Anyway, KEF is a great and finicky player and, Jack's boasting aside, I just can't fathom WOZ shipping with flippers which don't feel right. Remember, they haven't even put it out on proper test yet.

I observe that here and everywhere. It is used to control people.

Greg - when Iron Man came out.. (released - not a test game) people (I think you were one?) were complaining about the shot to the right ramp and flippers not being able to make it regularly. When i got the game i changed the coil strength to "hard" in settings based on suggestions on RGP and never had one issue making that ramp. Were the original games shipped with a weaker setting? Did the coil strength change in settings make the difference? Did Stern change something after attention was brought to this issue? All i can say is everyone complained originally and now no one does.

I am sure JJP can figure out to get flippers working with Williams parts and design.. if not, the game will be a bust and I cant see how they could let the game get shipped (unlike Stern IM for example) with this issue not resolved.

I am going to be playing the game Friday.. will report how the flippers feel after playing it myself.

The Vice Presidential masturdebate is on Thursday.

Great, politics and sex in one post. MNpinball you are SO in trouble.

The manual for IM has the left flipper listed as a 22-1080 coil. Stern must have realized this was a problem and made a change either during or before production and at some point games were shipped with a stronger 22-900 coil. My IM has a 22-900 coil and making the right ramp isn't a problem.

I'm just happy that the games are finally shipping!

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I'm just happy that the games are finally shipping!

They are shipping here:

fantasyland6.jpg

I personally think that the metal leaf switches that Jack will be using (based on rumor) for the WOZ flippers are actually more reliable and less prone to snapping/breaking in long-term usage than the plastic Williams Bally opto switches. And there's not a discernible difference in cost between the two. Williams promoted opto for marketing purposes, and succeeded to a large extent, not because it was better, faster, or more reliable. Just marketing, that's all. Seems to me like Jack is always thinking in terms of a low maintenance high reliability game, probably with a view towards the operators. Also, the leaf switches are actually a nano second or two faster than the opto switches, as far as getting the "circuit closed/circuit open" information to the CPU when you press the cabinet flipper button.

It's common knowledge that Jack is using Williams Bally parts for WOZ, including its flippers. I'm sure that the soft flipper feel anyone got playing the prototype WOZ (it wasn't their imagination, it was real) was because the thing was intentionally set at 50%, not full stregth, using pulse width modulation/software based flipper strentgh adjustment sytem (Capcom was the first to use it). Otherwise, everything works the same in all the modern games, that is, through FLIPTRONICS. It's the fliptronics system that gave the game-coding masters the ability to be creative with the flippers. Williams made a showcase of this aspect of it with TAF. Williams used th EOS switches just to relay info to the CPU in fliptronics, nothing else. Stern basically took the fliptronics from Williams and called it Solid State. When Williams tried to defend the patent and failed, Stern wanted to rub it in by placing TYFFASI (take your f**king fliptronics and shove it) initials on the Stern flipper parts. This is called adding insult to injury.

So when you take Williams/Bally parts and use them in the WOZ flipper system, that's not all you're doing. It's alot like having the suggested ingredients ready before you start cooking a good dish. It's up to the cook how to/when/how much to use of the ingredients. In this analogy, Jack is a masterful chef, and as such, he has my full confidence that he will come up with the best possible flipper system for WOZ. This WOZ is looking like a high-end Italian muscle car already with its 5, f i v e, flippers. So, if you think Jack will f**k this up, please think again.