(Topic ID: 248371)

Pinbot upper lights in backboard out

By RNajarian

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

I searched the forum and didn’t see a thread which matches my problem.

The Problem: The upper lights on my Pinbot are non functional, verified by a lamp test. (See photo of game in attract mode). The center 5 lights in the middle and the two bulbs above them DO WORK.

All fuses have been verified good via a multimeter.

I’m reading the schematics to try and isolate the problem but thought I would throw it out to the group first.

NOT SURE IF THIS IS RELATED: But prior to noticing the problem I began replacing the incandescent bulbs in the backboard with LEDs ( no lamp board modifications have been done. ) after replacing 15 bulbs I powered the machine up and got a noticeable humming noise. Shut unit off, then on and hum is gone. Can’t say for sure if the upper lamps were functioning before my LED upgrade. I have since removed all the LEDs andput the original incandescent bulbs back in, but the upper 1/2 of the backboard is still out.

It is important to note that beside the lamp problem the game is top notch. Plays well, all music and electronics working well.
Thanks for listening.

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#2 4 years ago

I would swing that board open and see if all the non-functioning lamps are on the same wire, then look for a break in that wire.

#3 4 years ago

They are on the same wire . . . I’ll check for breaks.

#4 4 years ago

I still have a similar problem on my Pinbot. I don't have a solution, but it was tied to adding LEDs. I /did/ cut the resistors for what it's worth to put the other LEDs in.

#5 4 years ago

When you checked these 4 fuses, did you pull them out to test? They will always test good while in the holder even when burnt.

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#6 4 years ago

No I did not pull the fuses when I checked them . . . I will tonight. Thanks

#7 4 years ago

You can fix this problem in about 2 minutes without messing with boards or fuses. If you already switched the bulbs to LEDs, they take much less power, like 80% less power. This means that you can run many more lights over an existing circuit. If you were to simply jump the grounding wire between the working and non working light stream with a replacement wire of virtually any type, to include speaker wire, the lights will instantly come on and be just fine. When I (briefly) had my pinbot I got the lights working on the right side of my machine by jumping the ground wire between them. Note this will ONLY work if you have switched out incandescent to LEDs. Doing this with incandescent WILL blow a fuse. You want to jump the lines stapled to the backbox as depicted in the image.

Edit: This of course assumes that checking the fuse, and the connector to the power board does not work.
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#8 4 years ago

My immediate problem was solved! I removed the fuses and found a 5 amp 250v slow blow (the first one I pulled) was bad, though it read good while in the machine.

Donation to Pinside made in GRUMPY’s name. Thanks everyone for all your insight, I will now research how to convert to LED safely.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from RNajarian:

Donation to Pinside made in GRUMPY’s name. Thanks everyone for all your insight, I will now research how to convert to LED safely.

There are 3 different voltage type bulbs in Pinbot. You are working on the 6 volt bulbs which need no modifications. If you decide on replacing the #1251 and #89 flash bulbs just ask and l will show you how. Thank you very much for the donation.

Playball!

#10 4 years ago

I would appreciate the guidance how to replace #1251 and #89.

Thanks

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from RNajarian:

I would appreciate the guidance how to replace #1251 and #89.
Thanks

Ok, for #89 bulbs (12 volts) there is a resistor board in series with a single bulb or a pair of parallel bulbs to drop the voltage from 24 volts to 12 volts with a large resistor (red arrow). Picture of resistor board below. The resistor board also has another resistor (warming resistor marked with a green arrows) in it's circuit to run a small amount of current thru the bulb to preheat the filament so that the bulbs flash brighter and last longer. Since Leds require only a small amount of current to light, the current going thru the warming resistor will be enough to light the Led bulb constantly. So to address this issue there are 3 different ways to correct this, first is that you can unsolder the black wire from the resistor board and add a small wire nut to insulate it. This will cut the current path to ground. Second is that you can find the pair of bulbs that flash together and replace only one of the pair with an Led bulb, the other bulb will dissipate the warming current and keep both bulbs off. The third method is to unsolder one lead of the warming resistors and lift it away from the board thus breaking the circuit stopping current flow. Each resistor board is 2 separate circuits and can control 2 pairs of flash bulbs. Let me know if you have any questions so far.

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#12 4 years ago

Thanks Grumpy. I purchased a backup resistor board (just in case). Based on my photo below if I remove the two black ground wires on the left and cap them off I’ll resolve the #89 bulb issue?

Does that resolve all the #89 bulbs on the backbox? Thanks again
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#13 4 years ago

If you have 2 black wires on the resistor board, make sure that you twist them back together after removing them and then install a wire nut. This must be done to all resistor boards. Then you are ready for #89 LEDs.

#14 4 years ago

Pinbot has resistor boards in the back box and under the playfield.

#15 4 years ago

Now if my memory serves me correct there are 8 #1251 bulbs in Pinbot. There are 2 in the insert board 2 on top of the playfield and 4 under the playfield. #1251 bulbs are 24 volt bulbs and don't have any voltage dropping resistors in series with them. Your options for using Leds are, buy 24 volt Led bulbs, add a dropping resistor in series and use a #89 bulb instead of the #1251 bulb. Or rewire them from parallel to series and use #89 bulbs. If you can solder ok then I would recommend rewiring them in series because there are more colors and styles of #89 12 volt bulbs then #1251 bulbs, and there are cheaper to buy. Let me know which way you want to go.

#16 4 years ago

Thank you so much!! Let me look at the machine and get a feel for where I want to go. For now maybe I can start with the simple 6 v bulbs.

I do wonder why my initial LED installation on the backbox blew that fuse. I had placed only 15 LEDs on the bottom 1/2 of the backbox, but I did manage to Put LEDs in two #89 sockets.

#17 4 years ago

So when you turned on the machine you heard a louder then normal hum. This was a short on the GI circuit that blew the fuse. You are using #44 LEDs in the insert board. Either one of the LEDs is bad or when you installed one of the bulbs into the socket it caused a short. In the future look into the socket for strands of wire, solder or small nuts and screws before installing the new bulb. I have seen about everything in my time working on machines. Shorted sockets don't happen much on #555 bulb sockets but #44 can sometimes be a pain. Anyway try installing them again and see what happens. The 2 #89 bulbs are on a different fuse so it didn't have anything to do with them.

#18 4 years ago

Would you recommend upgrading the bulbs in attract mode so if a bad short/socket is present it occurs immediately and the problem area is easily identifiable ?

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from RNajarian:

Would you recommend upgrading the bulbs in attract mode

I think you are referring to the computer controlled lamps. I don't like to make this type of call because either work fine. It's a matter of taste. Now for the GI lamps it reduces the power which will make the connectors last longer. A very good idea. Lamp sockets generally don't give any problems until you mess with them. LEDs will last a lot longer so you don't have to do as much maintenance in the future. But it's your call on what looks good to you.

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