(Topic ID: 158083)

Pinbot System 11 Missing Sounds, Mostly Speech

By mstire

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Lovetoplaypinbal
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

Jeez! Do pinball machines ever STAY working right?
Thought I had everything working 100% and now I've lost some sounds. In test mode all music and sounds test good. I recently got my CPU back from being repaired for another issue and was assured the board was 100%. Was upgraded with new roms as well.

After I installed my CPU and played some games, some times the speech would work and other times it would be gone altogether. It seems to have gotten gradually worse now I have little or no speech at all. It's kind of random. Another thing happening during play is the background music will occasionally fade to a lower volume for 2 or 3 seconds. I can't associate this with any particular event.

I have read everything I can about sys 11 issues and found the speech sounds are coming from the CPU. I swapped the ribbon cable with my F14 and that made no difference. Replaced all of the radial caps on the sound board. From what I've read, it looks like U4 and U5 1458 op amps and U3 55536 could be suspect. Is there a way to test these in a random situation? Is there anything else I should be looking at?
I have a logic tester but don't really know how to use it.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

#2 6 years ago

Just got my mail from GPE for a new ribbon cable, installed it and no difference.

Played several games and still have random voice/sounds. Sometimes there, sometimes not.

May be wrong but seems my problem is associated with the volume fluctuation. Hard to tell during play but when the background music goes low it appears that's where the speech plus other sounds are lost. Just finished a game where this happened, drained the ball and the next ball everything started normally but ended up the same way.

#3 6 years ago

I just restored a Pinbot and I'm having a similar problem. My speach works all the time but my sound fades out. It's not bad but it happens about every 10 games or so. The speach will be fine but everything else is silent. Usually the sound comes back within 2-3 minutes so I haven't even looked into the problem. When I replaced my CPU rom but not my sound rom. I think that's probably my issue. Do you have new sound rom also?

#4 6 years ago

I wrestled with the sound on pinbot recently. Here are some things to consider:
The main sounds (switch hits, and such) and all the speech, are generated by the sound CPU on the main board. The background music is what comes from the sound board. For me, all I was getting was background music.

I believe there is a trimmer pot on the sound board that mixes the two signals together. Give a few wiggles to see if it helps. They can get dirty and finicky.

SOUND TEST will run through main CPU sounds and speech. MUSIC TEST Runs through sound board sounds (music, of course).

People tend to have success when changing the CVSD chip, but I like to KNOW that's the problem before I change it.

No, this doesn't give you an answer, but might spark something for you.
Good luck,
Jeff

#5 6 years ago

Dupe post. Stupid Internet.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

I just restored a Pinbot and I'm having a similar problem. My speach works all the time but my sound fades out. It's not bad but it happens about every 10 games or so. The speach will be fine but everything else is silent. Usually the sound comes back within 2-3 minutes so I haven't even looked into the problem. When I replaced my CPU rom but not my sound rom. I think that's probably my issue. Do you have new sound rom also?

Thank you Pana. I did not change out my sound board rom as I think my problem is on the CPU but maybe I should look into it. Just checked it and the label it has on it says "Music/Spch" I thought all of the speach was coming from the CPU.

Quoted from Grangeomatic:

I believe there is a trimmer pot on the sound board that mixes the two signals together. Give a few wiggles to see if it helps. They can get dirty and finicky.

Thank you too Grange. I did mess with this pot. I thought it was a volume pot in addition to the one in the bottom cabinet. High, low, back and forth and wiggle, it didn't appear to make any difference. I'm kind of on the same page as you about the CVSD but looking for a way to verify without the "shotgunning" approach.

It's hard to say for certain but I think all of the sounds were working okay before I sent my board in. The repair was basically transistor and predriver replacement for special solenoids. Not related. Upgraded ROMs were also installed. I have to wonder if something might be wrong with the ROMs. Maybe my Bot liked the old version better? Can't imagine that would be the case.

Thank you for the responses.

#7 6 years ago

Does anyone know if I can put my F14 board in the Pinbot. If so would I just need to swap the sound rom?

#8 6 years ago

If you're talking the main CPU board, they're both Sys11A (with same part numbers), so there shouldn't be a problem trying it out. Officially, you'd need to swap the sound ROMs AND the game ROM(s). But if you do it systematically, you can take the opportunity to test your ROMs in the board that you know works, if you know what I mean.

If you're talking about the sound boards, they appear to be different part numbers in the manuals, so I'd be careful with that. Check the schematics and see if the signals are similar.

#9 6 years ago

The issue is the CVSD chip on the main mpu at U3. Not anything to do with the sound board.

I had this issue on my pinbot about a year ago.
The CVSD chip swap fixed it.

It's not socketed. So remove the old chip. Add a socket. And it will be fixed.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/k9JoxebL_Ao

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from Grangeomatic:

If you're talking the main CPU board, they're both Sys11A (with same part numbers)

Thanks Grange. Actually I was thinking about swapping the sound board but makes better sense to swap the CPU since that's where the suspected problem lies.

Quoted from erak:

The issue is the CVSD chip on the main mpu at U3

Thank you too erak. I think I'll go this route. Wondering if it would be a good idea to add new 1458 amps while I'm at it or leave well enough alone. Kind of a shot gun approach. Wish I could tell for certain.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

Thanks Grange. Actually I was thinking about swapping the sound board but makes better sense to swap the CPU since that's where the suspected problem lies.

Thank you too erak. I think I'll go this route. Wondering if it would be a good idea to add new 1458 amps while I'm at it or leave well enough alone. Kind of a shot gun approach. Wish I could tell for certain.

I decided to add all new caps, amps and the CVSD when I did mine. I figured I might as well as all those components are 30 years old.

#12 6 years ago

Are there certain caps for just the sound section on the CPU? If so how do I tell which ones they are? I'm thinking maybe C2 and C3?

#13 6 years ago

If this is the Pinbot CPU I repaired for you, let me send you a complete set of ROMs. If the ROMs on your external audio board are not the same revision as the ones I put on the CPU, there could be a conflict. I've never seen this happen on Sys11, but it's theoretically possible.

Give them a try, if that doesn't work, you can always just mail them back?

#14 6 years ago

Thanks for chiming in John.

Yes, definitely worth a try. Not something I would have thought of.

Very happy with the work you did on my board and the quick turnaround. Everything else appears to be working 100%

Do you still have my mailing information?

I'll let you know the results as soon as I can put them in.

#15 6 years ago

Cvsd chip replacement did the trick for me. My symptoms weren't exactly the same, but similar.

#16 6 years ago

That will be my next approach if the roms don't fix it. Might as well start with the easy stuff first. Especially since JohnWart offered to send them out to try.

#17 6 years ago

I wonder if replacing the cvsd will get the speech back on my F-14. I've banged my head against a wall for a few years trying to fix this(off and on, though the problem has always been there). I've replaced a lot on that board, and have kinda given up on fixing it, but I'll be checking to see if I ever replaced that.

My symptoms: No speech, no takeoff sound etc. I do have the Music, and the sirens for multiball. Tried swapping the sound board, no effect.

#18 6 years ago

It really sucks not having all the sounds! I don't think I could put up with it for a "few years".

Like John said, you might look into upgraded roms for the CPU as well as the sound card. At least there's no soldering involved and I think John can provide them for you.

If the roms don't do it for me I will be looking into the CVSD replacement.

Good luck

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from mstire:

It really sucks not having all the sounds! I don't think I could put up with it for a "few years".
Like John said, you might look into upgraded roms for the CPU as well as the sound card. At least there's no soldering involved and I think John can provide them for you.
If the roms don't do it for me I will be looking into the CVSD replacement.
Good luck

Thanks.
It's really been one of those "walk away" situations. I've got more hobby than I can actually keep up with, so it just goes in a cycle.

I think I reburned all my roms during one of my bouts of troubleshooting, so I don't think that's it. I'm definitely going to look to see if I replaced the CVSD, because it sounds like a good place to start... again...

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from SmokeandLights:

I wonder if replacing the cvsd will get the speech back on my F-14. I've banged my head against a wall for a few years trying to fix this(off and on, though the problem has always been there). I've replaced a lot on that board, and have kinda given up on fixing it, but I'll be checking to see if I ever replaced that.
My symptoms: No speech, no takeoff sound etc. I do have the Music, and the sirens for multiball. Tried swapping the sound board, no effect.

It more than likely would fix it. It took me a month or two to fix the missing sounds on my pinbot. I replaced all the caps. Replaced the sound board amps, then replaced the Roms. It was still not working. Then I replaced the CVSD. And pinbot came back to life.

At least it's all new now. But I wish I tried the CVSD first and worked backwards from there.

#21 6 years ago

John Wart was kind enough to send me a full set of replacement roms for the sound board as well as the CPU. Problem solved!

It sure is nice to have ALL of the sounds ALL of the time. I ordered the CVSD and the amps so if they become a problem I'll be ready.

Thanks for everyone's input.

2 weeks later
#22 6 years ago
Quoted from SmokeandLights:

I wonder if replacing the cvsd will get the speech back on my F-14. I've banged my head against a wall for a few years trying to fix this(off and on, though the problem has always been there). I've replaced a lot on that board, and have kinda given up on fixing it, but I'll be checking to see if I ever replaced that.
My symptoms: No speech, no takeoff sound etc. I do have the Music, and the sirens for multiball. Tried swapping the sound board, no effect.

Unfortunately, this did not fix my problem.

#23 6 years ago

You wouldn't by any chance happen to have a spare sound card kicking around (working or not)? I'll snag it.

2 years later
#24 3 years ago
Quoted from paynemic:

Cvsd chip replacement did the trick for me. My symptoms weren't exactly the same, but similar.

what is the cvsd chip?

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from Lovetoplaypinbal:

what is the cvsd chip?

I am having an issue on my pinbot with no sounds at all. I do get the single test tone when machine is first turned on. Then that is it. I also never get sounds in the sound tests at CPU or in the menu for sound tests.

Any help would be appreciated.

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