(Topic ID: 242657)

SOLVED: Pinbot solenoid issues (the game is going crazy and so am I lol)

By jmountjoy111

4 years ago


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#5 4 years ago

All 6 special solenoids lock on at power up? Or is it just 2 and then the fuse burns?

#8 4 years ago

All 6 solenoids go through U-49. U-49 is next to the damage area. It may have been damaged to. In attract mode use logic probe and take some readings.

#11 4 years ago

Red lead to 5 volt test point on CPU. Black lead on ground test point on CPU. Set TTL/CMOS to TTL. Probe each lead of U -49 and report back.

#13 4 years ago

So the U-49 chip is passing the signals through correctly, but the signals going into U-49 are wrong. The six input signals come from 3 different pia chips. Pins 1,3,5,9,11 and 13 all need to be low.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

So what should the next step be

Start with the first Pia chip U-54. U-49 pin 1 and 13 go to Pia U-54 pin 19 and 39. If the Pia chip is good, then there is a broken trace from U-54 pin 39 to SR-19 pin 2. Also since you got a nothing signal ( 0.8 volts-2 volts) on pin 1 of U-49, the trace from U-54 to SR-19 pin 10 is not completely broken but has high resistance which needs to be zero resistance. Now if you find the traces to be fine then the PIA chip maybe bad, but I doubt that all 3 PIA have the same outputs bad. Use this as an example for all 6 inputs of U-49.

u-49 (resized).PNGu-49 (resized).PNG
#18 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

u54 pin 39 is high and pin 19 has no reading

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

U38 pin 19 is high and pin 39 is high

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I’m not sure but looks like the other signal comes from

The first pic shows that the signal goes to 4D1.
4D1 is page 4 of 4. Up and down is D. Left and right is 1.
So look for the signal in the upper right corner of page 4. Pic #2.
U-41 pins 19 and 39.

pb (resized).PNGpb (resized).PNGpb1 (resized).PNGpb1 (resized).PNG
#20 4 years ago

This is the only output that is correct, now you need to figure out if the other 5 outputs are bad pia chips or most likely bad traces due to acid damage. Could also be a bad solder job on the socket.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Could these be the culprits

Very unlikely.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I know Ed mentioned they are counterfeit and I plan on replacing them

Do this.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I’m guessing the problem is more than likely in the traces?

Easy to test for continuity between the pia chip and the resistor pack to know for sure.

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

There is a blown out trace from pin 9 on sr20 to to zr8

Well this will fix SS#5 the right kicker.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

So on this do I need to simply replace the zener diode and resistor pack and jump the broken trace

I would replace ZR-8 and test the resistor pack, then add a jumper.
If the trace was laying across sr-20 pins, this could have locked on all 6 SS coils. Now that its off retest the board to see if all six still lock on, maybe the pias are fine.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I have pulled the SRC 1-5 and 7 from the board and ordered the proper components from Great Plains.

The displays and sound will not work. But you need to replace zr-8 and the jumper before testing or cut the wire from SS #5 coil to keep it from locking on.

#38 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I need to order that zener diode

You can cut the zener off to test, but you need the jumper for sure.

#40 4 years ago

Wouldn't hurt.

#42 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

With the exception of the right sling

This is a step in the right direction.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

So is it safe to assume my next step is to replace all the 6821s?

Test the rest of the ZRs with and ohm meter. Good reading is @5k ohms. When the trace shorted the resistor pack it may have caused damage to the rest of the ZRs.

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:Zr6 tests at 12.3 ohm

Zr7 tests at 2.9k ohm

Lift one lead off the board and retest the ZR to see if it is the ZR or is it somewhere else on the board.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I still have continuity to ground on 1j18 pin 8.

If this is on the bench, then you need to lift a leg of C-75, ZR-8, pin-2 U-49 or pin 2 U-50 until the ground short goes away.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Pins 6,7, and 8 all show continuity and I think only 6 and 7 should. Is that correct

If the board is a 11a then pin 6 NC pin 7 NC. If its an 11A board then 6 and 7 to ground.

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The board is System 11A (traces for diagnostic LEDs not digit display).

Correct, I don't know why I didn't look back at the pics.

#53 4 years ago

You don't need to connect j-19 just to see if it's fixed. Just use your ohm meter or logic probe. Locking on the coils each time will kill the diodes and driver's.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

How would I check to see if it is fixed with my ohm meter.

With J-18 and J-19 off the board, power on the game. After the Cpu boots, first check switch inputs J-18 with the voltmeter, pins 2,3,4,5,8,9 should have 5 volts while in attract mode. Any pin that is lower then 2 volts will trigger U-45 and U-50 and turn on a driver transistor when you start a game. Once the switch inputs are good you check the driver outputs on J-19. Pins 3,4,6,7,8,9 resistance should read O/L in attract mode to ground. Then start a game and retest J-19, all should read the same as before until you trigger a switch input during a game or run coil test. Now before you connect J-19 again you need to replace all SS coil diodes.

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1 week later
#61 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

at least that is how I read it.

Correct.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

except pin 3 which read 162mv

This will lock on the coil when you start a game. Is the connector J-18 on or off the CPU?

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Is it possible both chips are just bad?

Anything is possible with the number of times the coil were locked. Are U-45 and U-50 in sockets? If yes, pull both chips and then test J-18 pins, all should be 5 volts.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

That was with u45 and u50 still in. They are socketed and would be easy to remove and test but I didn’t know if I needed too with having 5v on everything with u49 removed

Your making good progress, try a new U-49 and retest. The end is in sight.

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I like living in a small town but it definitely has it’s downfalls.

So do I, but more benefits then downfalls.

#73 4 years ago

With U-49 removed, what do you read on U-49 pin 1?

#75 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

with u 49 removed I am measuring at 1.39 vdc at pin 1

The needs to be @ 5 volts, check the traces and solder joints of both chip sockets and the resistor pack.

#77 4 years ago

U-49 pin 1 should always be 5 volts unless in coil test on this particular special solenoid. Then it would be a high with low pulses. Since you are reading 1.39 volts I would guess that if you measure at the resistor pack it maybe 5 volts. But a poor solder joint on the pia or U-40 chip socket maybe causing the voltage to drop under load. Your real close to finding the problem here so stay after it.

#79 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

It may be tomorrow before I can test it further but I will check it out and post back.

Not to many items to check here. How are the traces?

pia (resized).PNGpia (resized).PNG
#81 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I have continuity from u54 pin 19 to sr-19 pin 10 and to u49 pin 1.

Do you have five volts at SR-19?

pia (resized).PNGpia (resized).PNG
#83 4 years ago

What does pin 1 of U-49 read if you remove U-54?

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

With no chip in u54 there is 5v to pin one on u49. Should I put a new 6821 in and test the power then?

I think so.

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I replaced the 7407 in u49 and pins 2,3,4,5,8,9 on j18 all read 5v.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Do I need to plug j18 back in to test j19?

I would put the board in the game and reconnect every connector but 1J-19.
I would then turn on the power and the check resistance from ground to each of the 6 SS TIPs metal tabs. Should be high resistance. If OK, then I would start a game and retest the 6 SS TIPs. If OK then I would replace the 5 coil diodes and check the coil resistance. Then I would reconnect 1J-19 and do a coil test to see if every thing is all good.

#91 4 years ago

PLAYBALL!

#93 4 years ago

Since you have some of the PIAs in sockets now, are you going to test the counterfeit PAIs one at a time to see if they are working chips?

#99 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Would it be safe to just insert them in and see?

But disconnect J-11,J-12 and J-19 so a coil wont lock on.

#100 4 years ago

Your the only one who understands my weird sense of humor.

#104 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

Would I just test the pins on these like I did the j19 pins earlier to see?

Yep.

#110 4 years ago
Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I probably sound like an idiot most of the time but I just ask so many questions cause I don’t want to mess anything up

Your questions were always on point to me.

Quoted from jmountjoy111:

I don’t want to mess anything up putting the counterfeit ones back in the board lol.

Then don't, I was just curious as to whether they were part of the cause or not. Now it sounds like it was a factory U-54 and a couple of other things that cause your headaches.

Enjoy your success.

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